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Old June 4th, 2016, 05:12 PM   #1841
ea1969
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In some European countries, I am not sure if it was Greece or Spain, I have seen conditional arrows which were yellow blinking - it makes much more sense.
In Greece these yellow blinking lights, when used for right turns, usually are "on" at the same time the main stream is on green, in order to indicate that pedestrians crossing the road to the right have a green light and therefore they have priority over the cars (something that is usually not respected by impatient Greek drivers; though it has been a better behavior over the past few years - see https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9610...7i13312!8i6656).

When these arrows are towards the left it may be the same case as above and/or are used to indicate that the opposite traffic has green too, so that drivers who turn left must give way to those coming from the opposite direction (see https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9850...7i13312!8i6656).

I have seen the same arrangement in Germany too (both for right and left turns).
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Old June 4th, 2016, 07:19 PM   #1842
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Poland accepted the Vienna convention, and introduced it to the national law, in 1988, so a very long time before the metal board arrows had to be replaced with light arrows.
It is hard to believe that any external body would have forced Poland to dump the metal arrows, while allowing Germany to retain them.

From the traffic safety point of view, those plates are a nightmare. They are pretty hard to observe at low visibility conditions. It is hard to me to understand why Germany did not dump them at the day 1 of the unification.
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Old June 4th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #1843
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There are a lot of the "deer signs" on A4 I know for sure. Probably mostly on the "German" section but I want to say I have seen some on the new section towards Zgorzelec as well.

In Canada by comparison rural motorways are generally not fenced and so these signs are common.

Sometimes with more dramatic effect:



Though some recently-fenced roads in Quebec have warning signs saying to call the roads department if a animal is seen on the wrong side:
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Old June 4th, 2016, 08:46 PM   #1844
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Actually we used to have painted arrows in Poland in the past. Until something like the end of the 90's.

I was so young in that time that I don't remember the colors. Weirdly, I cannot find any photos as well. But, from what I remember, they looked like this:



Someone said that it's against the European regulations and if we want to join the EU, we have to change that.
We have something like that in Spain too: https://goo.gl/maps/NJLo7sRye7E2

Notice that the traffic light on the right side is also arrow-shaped. However, it was a normal circular light before the lightbulb was changed for LEDs. I guess they decided to leave there the upper "box" with the blue arrow on white background even though it isn't necessary anymore - see how there are no boxes on the uppermost set of traffic lights.

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In some European countries, I am not sure if it was Greece or Spain, I have seen conditional arrows which were yellow blinking - it makes much more sense.
Don't know about Greece, but Spain does have them: https://goo.gl/maps/qDJvWt6GEfH2
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Old June 4th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #1845
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We have something like that in Spain too: https://goo.gl/maps/NJLo7sRye7E2

Notice that the traffic light on the right side is also arrow-shaped. However, it was a normal circular light before the lightbulb was changed for LEDs. I guess they decided to leave there the upper "box" with the blue arrow on white background even though it isn't necessary anymore - see how there are no boxes on the uppermost set of traffic lights.
You mean, these white boxes mean that it's allowed to drive forward on the red light for the forward direction? And it's also allowed to turn left on red, as there is also such a box for the left turn (above the general traffic light)?
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Old June 4th, 2016, 09:57 PM   #1846
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In some European countries, I am not sure if it was Greece or Spain, I have seen conditional arrows which were yellow blinking - it makes much more sense.
In Greece we use this configuration where right turn is allowed during red. However, it must be very rarely used, because I have never seen this in real life.



On the other hand, this configuration is very common. It basically means that you must give way to pedestrians/cyclists.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 12:01 AM   #1847
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The static green arrow next to a traffic light -allowing a right turn on red- was very widespread in the former GDR. It was introduced in 1978. There was no mandatory stop at the light before turning right.



West Germany did not have the static green arrow sign back then. After reunification, the road code of the GDR was scheduled to stop being in force by the end of 1990. However, all the arrow signs could not be dismantled to that date, so an exception decree extended the GDR regulation concerning them for a year, then (due to resistance from the population against its abolition) again until 1996 on the former GDR's territory.

In between, a series of studies have revealed that intersections with the green arrow aren't exposed to more serious or more frequent accidents than others. The green arrow sign entered the Federal German road traffic code in 1994. Unlike in the GDR, there is a mandatory stop at the sign when light is red.

The first green arrow in the former West was unveiled in Berlin-Reinickendorf:



In colloquial language, the sign is still being referred to as "DDR-Pfeil".

Src: Wikipedia
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Old June 5th, 2016, 01:10 AM   #1848
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i like those combinations with amber blinking light. i saw in France traffic lights that have instead of green light blinking amber installed. is that still common? i saw it many years ago in Nice.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 05:55 AM   #1849
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Because green is wrong (even though some countries, including Poland, use it), amber is correct.

Amber blinking means: you can go, but you must take special care and give way
Green means: you can just go

Which meaning fits better to the situation with the right turn on red? Definitely the first one.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 07:46 AM   #1850
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In Ukraine static green arrows are very common, such as one in Kyiv:
https://www.google.ru/maps/@50.46400...7i13312!8i6656
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Old June 5th, 2016, 12:41 PM   #1851
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Quote:
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Very interesting!


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The other country which has those misleading green arrows is Serbia:


Some times ago there was some similar cases also in Italy, very unuseful! In most of these cases the traffic light were removed (or used for controlled pedestrian crossing without green arrow).
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Old June 5th, 2016, 04:03 PM   #1852
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What the heck? Both, red and green light for turning right?
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Old June 5th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #1853
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There isn't anything weird in this.

The red light on the left says you are not allowed to turn right in such a way that you have absolute priority and you don't have give way to anyone, the green light on the right says (would say in Poland, in Serbia it might be slightly different) that you have to stop and give way to the drivers, cyclists and pedestrians on the street across, then you can turn right.

It's not unsafe. It seems that in the whole USA, except for New York, turning right on red is normally allowed. When it's not allowed, then there is a special sign. In New York and in Europe turning right (left in the left hand drive countries) on red is normally forbidden. It is allowed when there is an additional right arrow (in Europe, NYC probably has some text signs) next to the traffic light, either as a metal plate, or as an additional light, as in this case - it depends on the country.

And it also seems that Germans did some research on that and allowing drivers turn right on red doesn't have to be dangerous. In Poland these arrows are present on almost all the intersections with traffic lights, and it works. Why should it be dangerous, when the only what you have to do is to give way to the pedestrians (which is also the case when you have a standard green light and you turn right) and to just a single stream of cars?

Don't you have this in Slovenia? Is it always forbidden to turn right on red?
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Old June 5th, 2016, 05:08 PM   #1854
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Thanks for the explanation. We have the extra green arrow in Slovenia as well, but not beside a red arrow, only beside a red traffic light without an arrow. And in theory you have to watch for other traffic when you get the extra green arrow, but in practice there're no such intersections in Slovenia to my knowledge, so you're free to go.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 05:23 PM   #1855
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What the heck? Both, red and green light for turning right?
That Belgrade traffic light photo is on the Wikipedia page, described as "self-contradictory sign".
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Old June 5th, 2016, 05:47 PM   #1856
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And someone complains on the discussion page that it's not self-contradictory, as both arrows mean two different things

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And in theory you have to watch for other traffic when you get the extra green arrow, but in practice there're no such intersections in Slovenia to my knowledge, so you're free to go.
So such a thing in Slovenia (the photo is from Poland):



is usually actually equivalent to this (I mean the right one, when it's green, not red):



although the theory says it's not and in theory it's like in Poland?

Then it's dangerous, drivers get used to that they don't have to give way to anyone, and when it happens they have to, it may end up very badly...

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Old June 5th, 2016, 07:12 PM   #1857
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That's right. At driving lessons you have to look left, if there's anyone approaching, but in real life no one does it, you just drive. I know there's no such intersection in Ljubljana; maybe in other towns, but I haven't noticed them anywhere. Yes, it can be dangerous if a Slovene goes abroad and forgets the true meaning of the extra green arrow.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #1858
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It's like in Poland on the driving lessons you have to stop when you have a green arrow, regardless of whether there is any traffic on the street across (forgetting to do it on the exam you immediately fail it) - but after receiving the driving license, literally noone does it
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Old June 5th, 2016, 09:29 PM   #1859
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You mean, these white boxes mean that it's allowed to drive forward on the red light for the forward direction? And it's also allowed to turn left on red, as there is also such a box for the left turn (above the general traffic light)?
No, the white boxes don't allow anything. They just indicate the direction for which the traffic light is intended. If you're turning left, you must obey the traffic light on the left (which has the blue arrow pointing left).

I'm just saying that the white box isn't necessary since the lights are arrow-shaped, i.e. you can have either this:


or this:


But having both is redundant/unnecessary:
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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:05 PM   #1860
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in Croatia if you have additional green (right) arrow, the worst thing that can happen is collision with pedestrian. the lights never have such setup that you intersect with ongoing (road) traffic.

here you will find similar things like this one in Belgrade, but on portal lights. for instance here:
https://www.google.hr/maps/@45.79341...7i13312!8i6656

note that on portal above right turning lane there is red right arrow and additional green right arrow. however, if you take a look on side traffic light, there is red for straight and right, and additional green for right, so it solves the mystery (here we have in custom to place directional arrow on portal above the lane only for the direction for which that lane really is).
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