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Old December 31st, 2016, 06:12 PM   #1961
Valvejoodik
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speaking about the traffic signs, have you ever seen this sign placed somewhere? (France excluded, I know they use it)



i also find its existance quite obsolete or unneccessary afaik all countries apply right side rule on such crossroads.
Its quite used around here but sometimes where the traffic is low there is just paint instead:
https://www.google.ee/maps/@59.45740...7i13312!8i6656

We also have such signs: "ala" means zone. So the whole area ahead is right-hand priority (and 30kmh limit :P):
https://www.google.ee/maps/@59.38345...7i13312!8i6656
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Old December 31st, 2016, 06:45 PM   #1962
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Wait, all way stops are not common in Europe? It's the most common intersection in Canada and the US, easily. It's so basic I thought it was used essentially everywhere.

I have never seen one in Europe, and I drove in most European countries.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 07:15 PM   #1963
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i also find its existance quite obsolete or unneccessary afaik all countries apply right side rule on such crossroads.
https://goo.gl/maps/Xnv7mEKXUqG2
It might be helpful when the situation is a bit unclear and you don't expect a crossroad.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 08:28 PM   #1964
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isn't it easier and more clear to put just classic Give way and Priority signs?
Not if you want both streets to have equal priority. Imagine that there is high traffic on both - then you will get gigantic jams on one of them (which happens when the intersection has traffic lights, but they fail and stop working, and the road signs give priority to one of the streets - sometimes if the failure of the traffic lights cannot be fixed quickly, the police "replaces" the traffic lights and gives signals manually).

Then you usually install traffic lights, but there are cases in which the traffic is still not high enough for that (or wasn't high enough in the past, because now, at least in Poland, there is a tendency to put traffic lights everywhere where it's possible, which really slows down travelling through the city).

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They don't (didn't) want foreign pedestrians to use their passageway as shortcut to get around the corner ...
I understand German, I don't understand the reason of this ban.

It's really annoying when there is an open, publicly accessible paved passage, but its owner doesn't allow people use it...

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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Wait, all way stops are not common in Europe? It's the most common intersection in Canada and the US, easily. It's so basic I thought it was used essentially everywhere.
Not in the sense that you have actually 4 STOP signs. We have this sign for that:



And the difference is that STOP actually obliges you to stop, this sign not (you must give way to the one from the right only).

At an intersection without any signs the same rules apply (I am not sure about the UK, from what I have read somewhere, they don't have any rules for such a case - but in most of Europe it is exactly as I have written). At least theoretically, because often when there is no signs, but one of the streets just looks more important, it effectively has priority (but the law, which applies in case of an accident, is different).

And the intersections of paved streets with unpaved streets aren't actually (according to law) intersections, the driver entering the paved road from the unpaved one must give way to everyone on the paved road.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 08:29 PM   #1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Wait, all way stops are not common in Europe? It's the most common intersection in Canada and the US, easily. It's so basic I thought it was used essentially everywhere.
I've driven in 20 European countries, never seen an all-way / 4-way stop...

Some intersections have STOP signs, but these are usually a minor road crossing a major road. In the Netherlands they sometimes use to for bike path crossings.

Apparently Sweden experimented with all-way stops in the 1980s but abandoned plans to implement it. I do not have much more information about that.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 08:56 PM   #1966
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There are some intersections where priority road doesn't have any sign, while non-priority roads have stop/yield signs. That can be tricky unless driver on the priority road recognizes others' signs from behind...
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Old December 31st, 2016, 08:58 PM   #1967
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isn't it easier and more clear to put just classic Give way and Priority signs?
Yes, but that means, one of the roads has priority and drivers need not slow down. That X sign (pretty common in Hungary, too) has the same sense like 4-Stop overseas: cars in all direction have to slow down.
In the neigborhood where my parents live all crossings were converted from classis priority crossing (looked like that) to right-hand-priorty-ones. The main goal was to make traffic slower and calmer.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 09:00 PM   #1968
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There are some intersections where priority road doesn't have any sign, while non-priority roads have stop/yield signs. That can be tricky unless driver on the priority road recognizes others' signs from behind...
But exactly that's why both the yield and STOP sign have a shape that can easily be recognized from behind.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 10:09 PM   #1969
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Wait, all way stops are not common in Europe? It's the most common intersection in Canada and the US, easily. It's so basic I thought it was used essentially everywhere.
Very unusual in general, most intersections are governed by priority/yield, or priority to the right.

This very topic came up a while back and I did a count of the total number of all-way stops and all-way yield intersections in Sweden. The total is 90 all-way stops (3 or more directions have to stop), and 20 all-way yields.

My city has a total of one all-way stop, first put in place in 2013. Pictures of it:



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Old December 31st, 2016, 11:00 PM   #1970
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
There are some intersections where priority road doesn't have any sign, while non-priority roads have stop/yield signs. That can be tricky unless driver on the priority road recognizes others' signs from behind...
It's not legal for such intersections in Poland to exist, but there is still many of them.

In the past it was allowed, now it is no longer.

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But exactly that's why both the yield and STOP sign have a shape that can easily be recognized from behind.
Yes, but anyway they are not always visible well.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 01:32 PM   #1971
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Maybe full stops exist in America because of stupid court cases?
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Old January 1st, 2017, 01:40 PM   #1972
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More likely because the US went its own way and never signed the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, so they never adopted the concept of priority roads or priority to the right.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:41 PM   #1973
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Not if you want both streets to have equal priority. Imagine that there is high traffic on both - then you will get gigantic jams on one of them (which happens when the intersection has traffic lights, but they fail and stop working, and the road signs give priority to one of the streets - sometimes if the failure of the traffic lights cannot be fixed quickly, the police "replaces" the traffic lights and gives signals manually).

Then you usually install traffic lights, but there are cases in which the traffic is still not high enough for that (or wasn't high enough in the past, because now, at least in Poland, there is a tendency to put traffic lights everywhere where it's possible, which really slows down travelling through the city).

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Yes, but that means, one of the roads has priority and drivers need not slow down. That X sign (pretty common in Hungary, too) has the same sense like 4-Stop overseas: cars in all direction have to slow down.
In the neigborhood where my parents live all crossings were converted from classis priority crossing (looked like that) to right-hand-priorty-ones. The main goal was to make traffic slower and calmer.
I agree with the fact of calming the traffic. but i still dissagree that giving equal priority results with more fluent traffic. no way for that. frankly, this sign makes all traffic to slow on some 10-20 km/h. that will make the same crowd as stopping (also with Give Way sign you don't need to stop).

the only thing where i find it good is estonian Zone sign. i was recently in Sofia, Bulgaria. in city center they have large network of one-way narrow streets without any sings, and right side rule works perfectly there. the only problem is that me, as a stranger and tourist didn' realize it immidiately, so i stopped before each such intersection. with Zone sign it would be much better.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:50 PM   #1974
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Not more fluent traffic, but equal for all the streets, without prioritizing any of them.

Such zone signs can be often met in Poland at the entrances to car parks of big shopping centres.

Like here: https://goo.gl/maps/tLkpqXQWGHG2



or here: https://goo.gl/maps/HBVjYcSLnMK2



Additional text on this zone sign: "In the are of the Tulipan shopping center the road traffic law applies".
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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:56 PM   #1975
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well, these are the cases just like that estonian where the zone of such intersections is signed. call me stubborn, but i still don't see the reason to make all 4 interesection legs of equal priority unless those are some really minor streets where placing such sign actually isn't neccessary because it is too obvious that all have equal priority.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:44 PM   #1976
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speaking about the traffic signs, have you ever seen this sign placed somewhere? (France excluded, I know they use it)

In Finland, yes, in many places. Of course with a yellow background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
i also find its existance quite obsolete or unneccessary afaik all countries apply right side rule on such crossroads.
Some roads have priority over others, as you surely know. Sometimes you may think that you actually are on such a road, even if you aren't. This is when this sign may be needed.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:51 PM   #1977
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
There are some intersections where priority road doesn't have any sign, while non-priority roads have stop/yield signs. That can be tricky unless driver on the priority road recognizes others' signs from behind...
They can and should be recognised from behind. This is the reason why "yield" signs are the only signs of that shape.

EDIT: someone pointed this out already; moderators may remove this post.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:52 PM   #1978
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Some roads have priority over others, as you surely know. Sometimes you may think that you actually are on such a road, even if you aren't. This is when this sign may be needed.
Exactly.

And sometimes you really don't want to give priority to one road on another or vice versa. Usually at older intersections still without traffic lights or as a backup for the traffic lights.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 11:38 PM   #1979
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Not in the sense that you have actually 4 STOP signs. We have this sign for that:



And the difference is that STOP actually obliges you to stop, this sign not (you must give way to the one from the right only).

At an intersection without any signs the same rules apply (I am not sure about the UK, from what I have read somewhere, they don't have any rules for such a case - but in most of Europe it is exactly as I have written). At least theoretically, because often when there is no signs, but one of the streets just looks more important, it effectively has priority (but the law, which applies in case of an accident, is different).

And the intersections of paved streets with unpaved streets aren't actually (according to law) intersections, the driver entering the paved road from the unpaved one must give way to everyone on the paved road.

I've seen only once in life. It was a three roads cross without traffic and let that sign. People was so barely used to it that got confused... I think that enough a yield sign in one road.


Another issue I had when I was practicing to get driving licence was a street cross in my homecity where no signals were located. Obviously, right side with priority... it was an unique case but teacher made me cross that point several times because it was common to go there in exams and... should you do not stop, directly failed.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 11:56 PM   #1980
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In Poland it's not obligatory to stop in such places... Weird that in your country it is obligatory. Or maybe it was about giving priority to someone, not necessarily about stopping.

At my driving license test I had exactly this intersection: https://goo.gl/maps/7kf4wZeds8w - and I stopped there only because the visibility is so bad there that you simply don't see if there is anybody on your right without stopping.

By the way, shortly before this place, there is (or rather, probably, used to be - it should have been removed already, it's long time from 2013) a sign that the priority has been changed a short time ago and the equal priority rule was introduced: https://goo.gl/maps/n4rmAZUJELD2

"Change of priority - applies from 29.04.2013"

It's likely that they changed the rule only because the driving examination centre is close to this place and actually everyone taking the driving test must go through this intersection.

Really, this sign isn't anything exotic in Poland, although you don't meet it at every corner.
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