Ghana Leader: Oil Reserves at 3B Barrels

[stoicman31]

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

I thought this was supposed to be about oil discoveries in Ghana?

LOL

[Rdokoye]

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

I thought this was supposed to be about oil discoveries in Ghana?

Pray for them, on Christmas Day aswell

[Matthias Offodile]

In terms of human development, these countries are not significantly disparate at all.

What a rubbish you are talking? india has the same HDI than switzzerland and the UAE is like Norway?

You have yet to solidly establish such a direct relationship, and you never will because it doesn't exist. You're making the claim now that smaller populations lead to social peace, more structure, etc, etc. You're then completely ignoring the fact that none of that will carry through if "corruption levels remain the same", as you said!

You are answering your question by refering to my answer!?

I said that good governance is one essential pre-condition!

How many times do I have to reiterate this point?

I am using countries like Angola, Mali, and Rwanda because they have smaller populations than Nigeria. The point of using them is to disprove your claim that Nigeria would be a shining nation if it had a smaller population. These nations all have much smaller population's than Nigeria, and yet they end with lower levels of human development. That would show that a smaller population will not always eqaul success.

It does not matter how they compare to Namibia, Gabon, or Botswana-I'm not attempting to compare them to those nations. You are thouroughly and entirely missing the point, and it's truly mind boggling how you manage to do so!

Does the word context say something to you? Moreover, read what I had to say about those countries and what I have to say about Nigeria....you are still trying to compare apples with bananas.

This statement directly implies that population is the number one problem. It is telling us that with a lower population, the actual problems(corruption, mismangement, etc, etc) wouldn't be an issue, and Nigeria would be a "shiny state". In other words, corruption doesn't matter, because even if it was at the same level, a smaller population would negate it. Hence, population is the main factor.

I am not playing around it but in order to have an entrepreneurial class you need a population that is on the move and brimming with ideas (sociological factor, have you read Max Weber???) and secondly, you need good governance/rule of law.

an entrepreneurial class demands/implies good governance, this is implied by the phrase that I said.

In other terms, in Angola which you take out of its historical context: a local entrepreneurial class couldn´t develop due to the war and due to chaos no good governance had a place to nuture.

However, it will be easier to establish order in Angola for example than in Congo, for example whose population is four times larger and certainly more diverse...so smaller population will succeed more easily. I do think that their is a significant correlation to it . More over: empirical evidence abounds...which doesn´t say that there are some exceptions. like Guinea Bissau or Guinea.

But on the other continents no matter if it is Europe or South America or Asia the smallest nations are among the "wealthiest".

Costa rica, Uruguay

Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Norway, Denmark (on the other hand you have Portugal)

Asia: Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Brunei

Middle East/North africa: Qatar, UAE, Kuwait etc.

and even africa: Botswana, namibia, Gabon, Seychelles, cap verde etc.

However, relatively diverse nations like Kenya, Republic of the Congo(who just got out of a civil war), and Senegal are moving faster than Nigeria even.How do you explain that?

You certainly don´t like Nigeria, well, it is your opinion, we all have our preferences when it comes to certain countries, that´s the point. but since when is the DRC or Senegal moving faster than Nigeria, tell that to an emrging market analyst. Stupid and pointless talk!!!

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Matthias Offodile

What a rubbish you are talking? india has the same HDI than switzzerland and the UAE is like Norway?

No, India is not like Switzerland, nor is the UAE. Germany fits the bill, though, and so do France and Italy, despite having larger populations.

You are answering your question by refering to my answer!?

I said that good governance is one essential pre-condition!

You said specifically that those factors wouldn't matter, and that Nigeria would still be Africa's "shiny state" even if it maintained higher levels of corruption.

Does the word context say something to you? Moreover, read what I had to say about those countries and what I have to say about Nigeria....you are still trying to compare apples with bananas.

It does mean a lot to me, actually. I'm not quite sure what it means to you. Let me show you why you make no sense here.

I said first:

"You essentially tried to establish that a lower population = more success. I countered by saying that there are nations with much smaller populations who are not as successful as Nigeria. Then I listed them. Further, there are nations with poipulations similar to the levels of the 4 countries you mentioned that are not as successful."

Note the word "Further" at the beginning of the last sentence. That means, essentially "also". It means that when I speak of nations with populations similar to the 4 countries yu mentioned, I am not talking about Mali, Rwanda, or any of the nations Ilisted myself-I am simply acknowledging that aside from them("further") there are also other nations with populations the size of the 4 countries you mentioned that are not as successful.

This is why when you responded with this:

"Since when is Angola´s Mali´s or Rwanda´s population similar to that of Namibia, Gabon, Botswna or Mauritius?"

It made absolutely no sense. I never made that claim.

I am not playing around it

No, you aren't. You're dancing around it.

but in order to have an entrepreneurial class you need a population that is on the move and brimming with ideas (sociological factor, have you read Max Weber???) and secondly, you need good governance/rule of law.

an entrepreneurial class demands/implies good governance, this is implied by the phrase that I said.

You made this direct statement:

You haven´t get my point but I don´t blame you because you have surely never visited Nigeria nor spoken with many Nigerians on a more personal and level. if you had, you would surely think differently. Even with its current level of corruption, if nigeria had 22 million it would be Africa´s shiny state. you need an entrepeneur class to succeed

That statement implies that even with poor governance("the current level of corruption"), Nigeria, with a smaller population and with it's entrepeneurs, would succeed. It's entrepeneurs would drives this success, according to you. This implies that a lower population is key. Now you're saying that entrepeneurs must have good governance, and this contradicts your earlier claim.

Are you going back on this statement now?

But on the other continents no matter if it is Europe or South America or Asia the smallest nations are among the "wealthiest".

Costa rica, Uruguay

Chile's per capita GDP is higher than that of both Costa Rica and Uruguay, and yet it is a much larger country. Argentina is ahead of al 3 of these nations in terms of per capita GDP, and for that matter, Mexico is not very far behind Costa Rica(a few hundred American dollars separate them).

Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Norway, Denmark (on the other hand you have Portugal)

Add Germany, italy, the UK, and France to this list...

Asia: Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Brunei

South Korea is not particularly small with a population of nearly 50 million.

Middle East/North africa: Qatar, UAE, Kuwait etc.

I'll leave that alone.

and even africa: Botswana, namibia, Gabon, Seychelles, cap verde etc.

They are the wealthiest...but you have still failed to portray the direct relationship that you claim existed between population and wealth.

You certainly don´t like Nigeria, well, it is your opinion, we all have our preferences when it comes to certain countries, that´s the point. but since when is the DRC or Senegal moving faster than Nigeria, tell that to an emrging market analyst. Stupid and pointless talk!!!

Lol...read the post one more time.

However, relatively diverse nations like Kenya, Republic of the Congo(who just got out of a civil war), and Senegal are moving faster than Nigeria even.How do you explain that?

REPUBLIC. Not DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, just REPUBLIC. ROC NOT DRC. This is Congo-Brazzaville I'm speaking of, not Congo-Kinshasa. They are different nations, and one is a whole lot better off than the other.

I am speaking purely in terms of Human development-the nations I mentioned(ROC, Kenya, Senegal) all have moved faster in terms of human development. hence, they finish in higher places.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

[Matthias Offodile]

You said specifically that those factors wouldn't matter, and that Nigeria would still be Africa's "shiny state" even if it maintained higher levels of corruption.

Yes, I still stick to this point because I said "higher" level of corruption but I ddin´t define what higher means, higher can also be one "inch" behind Ghana´s current level.

Important is still the entrepreneurial spirirt which still thrives in Nigeria very well despite much higher levels of corruption than in Ghana.

That statement implies that even with poor governance("the current level of corruption"), Nigeria, with a smaller population and with it's entrepeneurs, would succeed. It's entrepeneurs would drives this success, according to you. This implies that a lower population is key. Now you're saying that entrepeneurs must have good governance, and this contradicts your earlier claim.

Are you going back on this statement now?

I still stick to it and I don´t get your point why you don´t understand what I am trying to say in vain

If Nigeria had Ghana´s population and the same amount of oil and gas etc, it would have less problems than it has today (which also means less poverty and ethnic strife)

Nigerian people are business-minded people that is why you find us in any West and Central African country or even beyond and Nigerians seldom look for government/company employment but (if so only temporararily) and try to create their own business regardless of size pretty soon.

So no matter how high the level of corruption is Nigeria.... with less people, Nigeria still would not be like any of the countries that you have mentioned before (Guinea Bissau or Guinea). This is not Nigerian mentality. people are always on the move.

But if Nigeria would have low or even very low levels of corruption it would be a fully developed country by now...and yes I would even say better than Botswana although this is speculative and derives from certain socio-cultural parametres that are prevalent in Nigerian society.

May I jsut illustrate it by drawing upon the example of Europe:

Take Italy or Germany . Despite all criticics that I have for Germany but people are generallly hard-working and very good if not the world´s best enginneers or at least among them, in Italy you won´t find this kind of entreprenerial class. People -generally once you leave Nothern Italy are happy with they can sustain their head above the water with petty work which I refrain from defining further in this context.

...and even if Italy was as "corrupt" as Germany it would still not figure in the ranks of Germany.

In short, socio-cultural factors play an important role.

Same can be applied to African countries or Asian countries. (it is nothing againt the countries or their people but just a general observation that should be scrutinized further. Sociologists or social athropoligist could deal with it.

Add Germany, italy, the UK, and France to this list...

Yes, but in terms of less social poverty and less umployment etc, less crime Germans or the French always like to take examples like Scandinavia or Switzerland as "role models".

You should have followed the TV debates in German/French TV.

REPUBLIC. Not DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, just REPUBLIC. ROC NOT DRC. This is Congo-Brazzaville I'm speaking of, not Congo-Kinshasa. They are different nations, and one is a whole lot better off than the other.

I am speaking purely in terms of Human development-the nations I mentioned(ROC, Kenya, Senegal) all have moved faster in terms of human development. hence, they finish in higher places

Sorry, I have overseen it.

you should have added that you are refering to HDI.

But anyway Congo-Brazzaville´s population hovers between 3-4 million and it is sub-Saharan Africa´s fifth largest oil producer behind Nigeria, Angola, Sudan and Equatorial Guinea, a couple of new discoveries have been in recent times. Nigeria has a population of 140+ million

Try to compare the entrepreneurial class of Nigeria with that of state-dependent Congo Brazzaville´s citizens. I have spoken with somebody from Congo-Brazzaville once and he said that people in his country in general "are pretty lazy and less active". He was a Brazzavillois in the Diaspora, I whould add it.

If nigerians would change sides with Congo-Brazzaville, Nigeria would have achieved high HDI Index (0.8) and a perfect road system with an entrepreneurial class....even at Congo Brazzaville´s level of corruption.

but if Congo-Brazzaville had 140 million people it would surely be faaaaaaar worse off than Nigeria.

They are the wealthiest...but you have still failed to portray the direct relationship that you claim existed between population and wealth.

Really, I think that I have established the link. I have Congo-Brazzaville and Nigeria. If you take HDI Congo -Brazzaville is "wealthier" than Nigeria.

Suprisngly, its level of corruption is not among Africa´s best, into the bargain.

[Xusein]

Good for Ghana, and hopefully more will be found, it will bring it a higher profile.

However, they must take heed from past mistakes with oil, it's truly black venom for development for some nations.

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Matthias Offodile

Yes, I still stick to this point because I said "higher" level of corruption but I ddin´t define what higher means, higher can also be one "inch" behind Ghana´s current level.

Once again, here is exactly what you said:

Even with its current level of corruption, if nigeria had 22 million it would be Africa´s shiny state. you need an entrepeneur class to succeed

According to you, that "higher level" equates to the level we see in Nigeria today.

If Nigeria had Ghana´s population and the same amount of oil and gas etc, it would have less problems than it has today (which also means less poverty and ethnic strife)

Probably...but not if the level of corruption and bad governance did not decline proportionally.

So no matter how high the level of corruption is Nigeria.... with less people, Nigeria still would not be like any of the countries that you have mentioned before (Guinea Bissau or Guinea). This is not Nigerian mentality. people are always on the move.

In other words, you're saying exactly what I thought you were saying: Governance is not the main issue. Population is, because Nigeria would be successful regardless of how much corruption(aka bad governance) there is if only its population were smaller.

In other words, the main issue here is population. Bad governance isn't really the main problem.
This is exactly what you are saying.

But if Nigeria would have low or even very low levels of corruption it would be a fully developed country by now...and yes I would even say better than Botswana although this is speculative and derives from certain socio-cultural parametres that are prevalent in Nigerian society.

And it is, therefore, a moot point.

May I jsut illustrate it by drawing upon the example of Europe:

Take Italy or Germany . Despite all criticics that I have for Germany but people are generallly hard-working and very good if not the world´s best enginneers or at least among them, in Italy you won´t find this kind of entreprenerial class. People -generally once you leave Nothern Italy are happy with they can sustain their head above the water with petty work which I refrain from defining further in this context.

...and even if Italy was as "corrupt" as Germany it would still not figure in the ranks of Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elopment_Index

That was a poor example. According to the HDI, Germany finishes slightly behind Italy in terms of HDI. The difference is minimal(only 2 spots).
All this despite your socio-economic theory here.

None of what you're saying can even be proven.

That having been said, I don't deny that socio-cultural factors don't play a role in how a nation does. Ethnic strife is one facet of this. Your application of this theory, however, is simply incorrect.

Yes, but in terms of less social poverty and less umployment etc, less crime Germans or the French always like to take examples like Scandinavia or Switzerland as "role models".

You should have followed the TV debates in German/French TV.

Sure, they want more. That doesn't mean they aren't all that close as it is.

But anyway Congo-Brazzaville´s population hovers between 3-4 million and it is sub-Saharan Africa´s fifth largest oil producer behind Nigeria, Angola, Sudan and Equatorial Guinea, a couple of new discoveries have been in recent times. Nigeria has a population of 140+ million

Try to compare the entrepreneurial class of Nigeria with that of state-dependent Congo Brazzaville´s citizens. I have spoken with somebody from Congo-Brazzaville once and he said that people in his country in general "are pretty lazy and less active". He was a Brazzavillois in the Diaspora, I whould add it.

Pure hearsay. Can you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Nigerians, on the whole, have a significantly stronger work ethic/business spirit than most of the rest of Africa? Can you prove this with actual quantifiable and irrefutable, credible evidence, and not just hearsay from distant, unverifyable meetings with random individuals, or opinions you yourself hold? Can you establish not only that the work ethic is credible, but also that such work ethic/business spirit is not present in other nations?

Right now, you are just sitting here and saying it, and you are completely incapable of establishing such a fact. You're using your own opinions, distant and unverifyable meetings with random people, while neglecting to show any hard evidence of such a trend being real, or of such a trend not being present in other african nations. In other words, you cannot prove any of this.

but if Congo-Brazzaville had 140 million people it would surely be faaaaaaar worse off than Nigeria.

All of this based purely on the assumptrion that Nigerians are naturally better at managing themselves than mostother africans...an assumption which is not quantifiable, highly speculative, and damn near impossible to prove.

[sarcasm]Great argument.[/sarcasm]

Really, I think that I have established the link. I have Congo-Brazzaville and Nigeria. If you take HDI Congo -Brazzaville is "wealthier" than Nigeria.

You have Congo-Brazzaville vs. Nigeria. I have Mali, Niger, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola and Rwanda, among others. All of those are examples of countries with smaller populations and lower living standards. You are trying to prove that smaller populations = automatically higher living standards, while also trying to establish this as the main factor behind success(ahead of good governance, etc, etc).

You cannot establish any sort of link, and you cannot prove your claim because there is no consistency. Some smaller countries are successful-many others are not, as I have shown. With such a turnout you cannot hope to establish any direct link.

[Matthias Offodile]

I have made my points clear, so I don´t see any sense of repeting myself incessantly! Moreover, you have taken my commenst out of their context, so the sense because distorted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elopment_Index

That was a poor example. According to the HDI, Germany finishes slightly behind Italy in terms of HDI. The difference is minimal(only 2 spots).
All this despite your socio-economic theory here.

None of what you're saying can even be proven.

That having been said, I don't deny that socio-cultural factors don't play a role in how a nation does. Ethnic strife is one facet of this. Your application of this theory, however, is simply incorrect.

It can be proven... if you read the press, scientific social science articles it were the Italians that came to Germany in droves in the 60´s and 70´s and it were the rapidly rising German middle-class that travelled to poor Italy at that time for a tan and some fun. For example, my mom´s parents did it and many friends and relatives of theirs, too.

Germany is beyond any doubt well ahead of Italy (in terms of competition, engineering which is world class and above that of Italy, wealth creation, less urban poverty, rising unemployment even among the educated academic youth, finding structured and logical approaches to problems, slowing reforms etc.) Have you visited cities lin Sothern Italy that are in the grip of the mafia and other illegal social actors and where the state has almost lost its say? These are not fairy tales that I am telling you. Have you seen the rubbish dumps that pile up in the streets of Neapels, many papers here have featured articles about it.
Italy is a highly indebted and even corrupt country with falling living standards and growing wealth disparities not just regionally (read many articles and TV reports about it in the papers).

So get yourself familiarized with the empirical facts, first...before applying theory falsely.

Pure hearsay. Can you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Nigerians, on the whole, have a significantly stronger work ethic/business spirit than most of the rest of Africa? Can you prove this with actual quantifiable and irrefutable, credible evidence, and not just hearsay from distant, unverifyable meetings with random individuals, or opinions you yourself hold? Can you establish not only that the work ethic is credible, but also that such work ethic/business spirit is not present in other nations?

Right now, you are just sitting here and saying it, and you are completely incapable of establishing such a fact. You're using your own opinions, distant and unverifyable meetings with random people, while neglecting to show any hard evidence of such a trend being real, or of such a trend not being present in other african nations. In other words, you cannot prove any of this.

It is not hearsay but has been dealt with by certain scientists which I said earlier..

I have given you the example of Nigerians that have expanded to almost every country within Western Africa and Central Africa, this is quantifiable and certain qualitative studies exist that deal with it. In Nigeria you can see Nigerians that steer the wheels of the economy and no immigrants (or very few) that do it. Example: Compare the Ivory Coast to Nigeria, if the Lebanese community which is huge over there packs their bags - which will be unlikely, of course - and leaves , this would have disastruous consequences for the economy, if the Lebanese community in Nigeria leaves, nothing big will happen (anyway, the Lebanse community in Nigeria is far smaller from that in the Ivory Coast which is another indicator that ). Do you know that the Nigerian diaspora is among the wealthiest in Sub-Saharan Africa? Have you checked the possesion of Nigerians abroad? I am not talking about the former dictators that sucked the country dry but about Nigerian business people, scientist etc..

Dantexavier, you are right it is hard to quantify but this is why I have drawn upon the two different modes of research : qualitative and quantitative. You only seem to accept the latter although social sciences deal with both. Quantitaive methods only reflect reality to a certan degree and they are very superficial, merely descriptive and also refutable for many scientist. It is also a question what you want to measure (the selection of indicators is questionable) , so the same country that figures well can figure low in another rather dealing with the same or an equivalent topic.

You have Congo-Brazzaville vs. Nigeria. I have Mali, Niger, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola and Rwanda, among others. All of those are examples of countries with smaller populations and lower living standards. You are trying to prove that smaller populations = automatically higher living standards, while also trying to establish this as the main factor behind success(ahead of good governance, etc, etc).

You cannot establish any sort of link, and you cannot prove your claim because there is no consistency. Some smaller countries are successful-many others are not, as I have shown. With such a turnout you cannot hope to establish any direct link.

Haven´t we get over this point, read what I have to said in my earlier psotings, all has been said.

just out of personal interest:

What is your problem with Nigerians, for goodness sake?? You really hate us. you even refrain from post non-poisonuous comments on our thread or search for pics and projects. It is your choice and we do all have favourite and less favourite countries but I am just wondering for a time now. Maybe you can give me an honest answer (!!) but I don´t think that you will have the heart to do so.

[abesha]

If Ghana and Nigeria have oil, then Togo and Benin most probably have some too.

I hope Ghana learns some lessons from other countries in Africa and uses this windfall wisely.

[Matthias Offodile]

If Ghana and Nigeria have oil, then Togo and Benin most probably have some too.

I hope Ghana learns some lessons from other countries in Africa and uses this windfall wisely.

So do I

Where do you come from? Are you Togolese or Beninois(e)?

[abesha]

lol, I'm (h)abesha = Ethiopian.

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Matthias Offodile

I have made my points clear, so I don´t see any sense of repeting myself incessantly! Moreover, you have taken my commenst out of their context, so the sense because distorted.

....right.

It can be proven... if you read the press, scientific social science articles it were the Italians that came to Germany in droves in the 60´s and 70´s and it were the rapidly rising German middle-class that travelled to poor Italy at that time for a tan and some fun. For example, my mom´s parents did it and many friends and relatives of theirs, too.

That isn't proof. If these articles were so scientific, show me them. Show me something from accredited researchers that backs up your point.

Germany is beyond any doubt well ahead of Italy (in terms of competition, engineering which is world class and above that of Italy, wealth creation, less urban poverty, rising unemployment even among the educated academic youth, finding structured and logical approaches to problems, slowing reforms etc.) Have you visited cities lin Sothern Italy that are in the grip of the mafia and other illegal social actors and where the state has almost lost its say? These are not fairy tales that I am telling you. Have you seen the rubbish dumps that pile up in the streets of Neapels, many papers here have featured articles about it.
Italy is a highly indebted and even corrupt country with falling living standards and growing wealth disparities not just regionally (read many articles and TV reports about it in the papers).

So get yourself familiarized with the empirical facts, first...before applying theory falsely.

I didn't call Italy a paradise. I stated, correctly, that Italy's levels of human development are right on par(in fact slightly ahead of) those of Germany. That cannot be denied, as I will now show:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Listed in order from higest to lowest:

High Human Development
Iceland
Norway
Australia
Canada
Ireland
Sweden
Switzerland
Japan
Netherlands
France
Finland
United States
Spain
Denmark
Austria
United Kingdom
Belgium
Luxembourg
New Zealand
Italy
Hong Kong, China (SAR)
Germany

Now, if your theory is to be taken as fact, how exactly would you explain this? Could it be that what you observe might not necessarily be a rule? Could it be that your observations so far are not fact, but just...hearsay?

It is not hearsay but has been dealt with by certain scientists which I said earlier..

This sentence right here is hearsay! You keep saying that it has been dealt with by certain scientists. What, am I to take your word for it? Where is your evidence? Where are your sources? If this trend is as all encompassing and obvious as you are making it out to be, then hurry up and show some hard data, and some solid facts! Who are the scientists? Where are their writings on the topic? Where are the numbers? Where?

You're just speaking right now, and your doing so does not make it fact.

I have given you the example of Nigerians that have expanded to almost every country within Western Africa and Central Africa, this is quantifiable and certain qualitative studies exist that deal with it.

1. If they are there, then show them, or at the very least cite them.
2. There are Ghanaians, Somalis, and Zimbabweans expanding as well. Admittedly, the Zimbabweans have been going by force give the bad situation there, but Somalis are all over east and southern Africa, and Ghanaians are everywhere from South Africa to Nigeria. There are not as many of them, since Nigeria's population far exceeds that of any other African country, but can you show that from a per capita(relative to the size of the nation's population) perspective, Nigerians are spread out more widely than those of any other African nation?

In Nigeria you can see Nigerians that steer the wheels of the economy and no immigrants (or very few) that do it.

prove very little. There is no significant ethnic minority in Nigeria(as a percentage of the population) to even compete. The country is 99% black African. Other groups, such as the Chinese, Indians, etc, etc, don't number much more than 1% of the p[opulation.

No minority can compete for control with that type of percentage. Other nations, like the ivory coast, have more significant(3-5% or higher) numbers of Lebanese, whites, chinese, etc, etc. Nigeria does not have this issue.

Example: Compare the Ivory Coast to Nigeria, if the Lebanese community which is huge over there packs their bags - which will be unlikely, of course - and leaves , this would have disastruous consequences for the economy, if the Lebanese community in Nigeria leaves, nothing big will happen (anyway, the Lebanse community in Nigeria is far smaller from that in the Ivory Coast which is another indicator that ).

Nigeria has no such large minority to compete in that way, so that comparison is moot.

Do you know that the Nigerian diaspora is among the wealthiest in Sub-Saharan Africa? Have you checked the possesion of Nigerians abroad? I am not talking about the former dictators that sucked the country dry but about Nigerian business people, scientist etc..

I'm well aware of the fact that Nigerian-Americans are among the most educated and affluent immigrant groups in America(somewhere in the top 5).

Haven´t we get over this point, read what I have to said in my earlier psotings, all has been said.

So you are admitting that there is no direct link between population and economic success given the variations we can see?

What is your problem with Nigerians, for goodness sake?? You really hate us.

Because I don't accept all of your arguments, and because I disagree with your supposedly bulletproof theory pertaining to Nigerian entrepeneurial superiority, that means I hate all Nigerians.

Sure. That's a great argument you've made right there.

you even refrain from post non-poisonuous comments on our thread or search for pics and projects.

1. I've never posted a poisonous comment on any Nigeria thread. Anything I've said in such threads was either perfectly uncontroversial, or simply matter of fact. You interpretations may simply varey, but in either case I have never went into any Nigeria-related thread with the intent to cause trouble. Ever.

2. You're correct, I refrain from posting pictures/news articles relating to Nigeria. I do it on purpose. Why? Sure, I could find thousands of new pics of Lagos, Abuja, Enugu, etc, etc, and I could post them and fill your threads. It wouldn't be difficult, really.

The reason I refrain from doing so is because I know better. I do post photos of the Nigerian military in the military thread, but aside from that, I know that when ever I do post photos, they will be critiqued meticulously by forumers within that thread. I have practical experience to back myself up. I post a Virgin Nigeria 767 in the airliners thread, next thing you know I'm getting slammed by you for posting such an "old" airliner. I post some random photos of Lagos in the Lagos thread, completely benign(no slums or any of that), and suddenly I am pounced on by not one, not two, but four forumers within the thread, telling me how I am leading some sort of crusade to attack Nigeria and Nigerians, when all I was trying to do was contribute. And I should add that you yourself had posted some rather revealing photos of Lagos slums earlier on in the thread, only to come up later and attack me for posting my contribution. These aren't even isolated incidents, either.

I know that if I post photos, I'll end up getting attacked. So, what's the point? Thus, I do not post photos of Nigerian airliners, nigerian cities or towns, and I also post no stories pertaining to Nigeria(save for those I can put in the military discussion thread), lest they be viewed by some as "attacks". I have learned that Nigerians in particular seem very, very scrupulous with regards to what is posted about their nation, and are willing to attack anything that does not speak glowingly about it, or that does not represent the country in an overwhelmingly positive manner(I'll say that I do not believe myself to be the only one to have noticed this here).

Hence, I leave the posting pertaining to that country to the Nigerians themselves. This way, nobody gets offended, and everybody is happy(or almost happy). I don't get attacked, and you don't get offended. Win-win stuation.

Maybe you can give me an honest answer (!!) but I don´t think that you will have the heart to do so.

Don't bother questioning my character. You wanted your honest answer, and you most definitely got it.

[Matthias Offodile]

That isn't proof. If these articles were so scientific, show me them. Show me something from accredited researchers that backs up your point.

I have copies taken out of scientific magazines like "African Sociological Review" among others of them at home, should I scan them or what? Quite time-consuming.

I didn't call Italy a paradise. I stated, correctly, that Italy's levels of human development are right on par(in fact slightly ahead of) those of Germany. That cannot be denied, as I will now show:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Listed in order from higest to lowest:

Italy´s development ahead of Germany´s , tell that to a German and he will wrip you apart or start laughing out loudly. Surely, the Northern parts of Italy are highly industrialized and have a very high standard of living (Milan, Turin etc.)...but forget about the Southern parts of the country which I mentioned above. The HDI Index doesn´t tell a word about the dire unemployment in Italy or people living beneath the poverty line which is higher for Italy than for Germany.

Moreover, Italy´s economy is placed the fifth most competitive (which is due to laws but also to work ethics)...if you watch Deutsche Welle TV in English, you will find all the relevant information, they released a new study, just seen it in the morning news.

Europe´s most competitive economcs:

Germany
Switzerland
Britain
France
Italy

I told you that it were the Germans that flocked to Italy for holiday but it were the Italians that came to Germany in droves for work. This tells something about where both countries stand.

I don´t knwo if you speak German if yes, i will give you the link of the articles concerning Italy.

Your obessions with the HDI Index only tell pat of the story.

This sentence right here is hearsay! You keep saying that it has been dealt with by certain scientists. What, am I to take your word for it? Where is your evidence? Where are your sources? If this trend is as all encompassing and obvious as you are making it out to be, then hurry up and show some hard data, and some solid facts! Who are the scientists? Where are their writings on the topic? Where are the numbers? Where?

You're just speaking right now, and your doing so does not make it fact.

So only hard facts count for you? How many times have I explained to you the difference between qualitative and quantitaive research!

1. If they are there, then show them, or at the very least cite them.
2. There are Ghanaians, Somalis, and Zimbabweans expanding as well. Admittedly, the Zimbabweans have been going by force give the bad situation there, but Somalis are all over east and southern Africa, and Ghanaians are everywhere from South Africa to Nigeria. There are not as many of them, since Nigeria's population far exceeds that of any other African country, but can you show that from a per capita(relative to the size of the nation's population) perspective, Nigerians are spread out more widely than those of any other African nation?

Yes, you are right that this is hard to prove. Unforrtuantely, no quantitative studies exist that deal with this factor in an isolotated way, we have no "highly adored" ranking only the numbers of nigerian living in those countries and working in those countries. There are also a number of moneyed Nigerians in the UK amd the USA. Again some Nigerian haters once came to tell us that all Nigerian are working in hair saloons or as maids.

Look, I know numerous people that come from different parts in West Africa, we talked about it. it is no secret that Nigerians have a strong presence in the West African sub-region...even France fears Nigerian infleunce in francophone West africa, again this is no secret....one of the reasons why they try to sideline Nigeria whenver they can, it is subtle but can be observed.

prove very little. There is no significant ethnic minority in Nigeria(as a percentage of the population) to even compete. The country is 99% black African. Other groups, such as the Chinese, Indians, etc, etc, don't number much more than 1% of the p[opulation.

No minority can compete for control with that type of percentage. Other nations, like the ivory coast, have more significant(3-5% or higher) numbers of Lebanese, whites, chinese, etc, etc. Nigeria does not have this issue.

Nigeria has no such large minority to compete in that way, so that comparison is moot.

you lack any form of crritical questiioning and swallow numbers bluntly.

Have you asked the question WHY???? Don´t tell me now because of corruption, the Ivory Coast ranks lower than Nigeria in terms of corruption due to latest figures by Tranparency International http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupt...282002-2007.29
and Nigeria has beeen rated among the top 10 economies in Africa to do businesss, check out where the Ivory Coast stands.

As for those figures, where do you get those figures from?

even the Lebanese community has begun to look for greener pastures although the community is quite strong but far from the 250 000+ in the past.

The white community (mostly French and numerous Belgian-Congolese who fled the madness of Mobutu´s regime) has consistently dropped from around 100 000 in the 80´s to around 3000 today. (=the "original French" people)

The Chinese community is new and not established but no trustworthy figures exist. Maybe, you are alluding to the Vietnamiens that once flocked to Abidjan due to the miserable situation in their country but considering the recent economic boom in their motherland and the unpredicatle situation in the Ivory Coast, I doubt that any have remained, if so only several hundreds.

So you are admitting that there is no direct link between population and economic success given the variations we can see?

Don´t mince words but re-read what I said PROPERLY AND ITS CONTEXT!!!

Because I don't accept all of your arguments, and because I disagree with your bulletproof theory pertaining to Nigerian entrepeneurial superiority, that means I hate all Nigerians.

I have always known that, Dantexavier. Your disdain for me and Nigerian as a whole is palpable in all your arguments the past months..I can live with it

As for my bulletproof theory, it is you who said it not me.

It is not a question of being "superior" as you claim (I have never used the word superior) but a question of observing and drawing conclusions. you seem to have a grave problem with Nigeria´s economic rising, despite many problems still remaining and Yar´Adua´s slwoness!

1. I've never posted a poisonous comment on any Nigeria thread. Anything I've said in such threads was either perfectly uncontroversial, or simply matter of fact. You interpretations may simply varey, but in either case I have never went into any Nigeria-related thread with the intent to cause trouble. Ever.

hahhaha, that is a good one!

2. You're correct, I refrain from posting pictures/news articles relating to Nigeria. I do it on purpose. Why? Sure, I could find thousands of new pics of Lagos, Abuja, Enugu, etc, etc, and I could post them and fill your threads. It wouldn't be difficult, really.

I still vividly remmeber that time where you have shown persistently Yaba, Surulere and Ikeja pics of Lagos...your commenst were not really nice and showed your dislike for Nigeria.

The reason I refrain from doing so is because I know better. I do post photos of the Nigerian military in the military thread, but aside from that, I know that when ever I do post photos, they will be critiqued meticulously by forumers within that thread. I have practical experience to back myself up. I post a Virgin Nigeria 767 in the airliners thread, next thing you know I'm getting slammed by you for posting such an "old" airliner. I post some random photos of Lagos in the Lagos thread, completely benign(no slums or any of that), and suddenly I am pounced on by not one, not two, but four forumers within the thread, telling me how I am leading some sort of crusade to attack Nigeria and Nigerians, when all I was trying to do was contribute. And I should add that you yourself had posted some rather revealing photos of Lagos slums earlier on in the thread, only to come up later and attack me for posting my contribution. These aren't even isolated incidents, either.

Most of my pics weren´t slum-centred, how many times did I say that I want to creAtE a positive image of Africa. HOOOOWWW MANY TIMES????
Yes, I once shwoed slum pictures of Lagos but this was a direct result of Arthabitat03 who accused me of painting a rosy pictures of Lagos otherwise I wouldn´t have done it. I felt pissed off by attacks....and to add more "balance".

I still remember very well the Virgin Nigeria pic that you posted. I rebuked you because you didn´t show the newer models like the airbus Aircafts which pointed to the fact that you only think that "trash is good for Nigeria because in your eyes it is such a terrible, corrupt and hopeless country", right? This explains why you have picked the old B767 aircraft instead of showing the modern A330-200 aircraft!

I know that if I post photos, I'll end up getting attacked. So, what's the point? Thus, I do not post photos of Nigerian airliners, nigerian cities or towns, and I also post no stories pertaining to Nigeria(save for those I can put in the military discussion thread), lest they be viewed by some as "attacks". I have learned that Nigerians in particular seem very, very scrupulous with regards to what is posted about their nation, and are willing to attack anything that does not speak glowingly about it, or that does not represent the country in an overwhelmingly positive manner(I'll say that I do not believe myself to be the only one to have noticed this here).

Ok, everybody reacts badly when you write something about their respective country, same would be the case if you go to the South African threads and showed pictures about slums in the maginficient and overwhlemingly glowingly presented Cape Town and Durban threads, make the experiment and you will see how people will attack you.

Moreover, you want to show the real Lagos but suprisngly, you felt pissed off when I once asked you to show the slums of Windhoek. Suprisngly, you stick to showing only overwhelmingly glowing pictures of places that you cherish! (nothing agaisnt Windhoek here for my part which is a nice city)...but this is just something that I have observed.

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Matthias Offodile

Italy´s development ahead of Germany´s , tell that to a German and he will wrip you apart or start laughing out loudly. Surely, the Northern parts of Italy are highly industrialized and have a very high standard of living (Milan, Turin etc.)...but forget about the Southern parts of the country which I mentioned above. The HDI Index doesn´t tell a word about the dire unemployment in Italy or people living beneath the poverty line which is higher for Italy than for Germany.

Moreover, Italy´s economy is placed the fifth most competitive (which is due to laws but also to work ethics)...if you watch Deutsche Welle TV in English, you will find all the relevant information, they released a new study, just seen it in the morning news.

Europe´s most competitive economcs:

Germany
Switzerland
Britain
France
Italy

I told you that it were the Germans that flocked to Italy for holiday but it were the Italians that came to Germany in droves for work. This tells something about where both countries stand.

I don´t knwo if you speak German if yes, i will give you the link of the articles concerning Italy.

Your obessions with the HDI Index only tell pat of the story.

I have no data for Italy's poverty rate, but I do know that it's unemployment rate has been pegged at about 7%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/it.html

Germany stands at 7.1%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gm.html

Seems right about even to me...

So only hard facts count for you?

Correct. If you cannot prove it, then why should I believe it, much less take it as irrefutible fact?

Yes, you are right that this is hard to prove. Unforrtuantely, no quantitative studies exist that deal with this factor in an isolotated way, we have no "highly adored" ranking only the numbers of nigerian living in those countries and working in those countries.

In other words, you cannot prove anything.

Just as I thought.

There are also a number of moneyed Nigerians in the UK amd the USA. Again some Nigerian haters once came to tell us that all Nigerian are working in hair saloons or as maids.

I'm sure.

you lack any form of crritical questiioning and swallow numbers bluntly.

You have absolutely no business talking down to me in that regard.

Have you asked the question WHY????

Why does the Ivory Coast have more in the way of ethnic minorities than does Nigeria?
There could have been several reasons. Perhaps the most important among them were the polciies made by the successive post-colonial governments in these respective countries. Some were more friendly to these minorities than others.

As for those figures, where do you get those figures from?

The CIA.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/xx.html

even the Lebanese community has begun to look for greener pastures although the community is quite strong but far from the 250 000+ in the past.

It is still constituting up to 4% of the populace in the Ivory Coast.

The white community (mostly French and numerous Belgian-Congolese who fled the madness of Mobutu´s regime) has consistently dropped from around 100 000 in the 80´s to around 3000 today. (=the "original French" people)

They are less than 1% of the population, according to the CIA. There are, however, many more expatriates that have come to work in the oil industry.

Don´t mince words but re-read what I said PROPERLY AND ITS CONTEXT!!!

I did. Here is what you said:

Haven´t we get over this point, read what I have to said in my earlier psotings, all has been said.

You're right, all has been said. You've said a whole lot so far, and you have yet to establish a consistent, direct link. So, I ask again: are you admitting to the lack of one, or not?

I have always known that, Dantexavier. Your disdain for me and Nigerian as a whole is palpable in all your arguments the past months..I can live with it

As for my bulletproof theory, it is you who said it not me.

For the love of god, you're one of the most hard headed and foolhardy individuals I have had the utter misfortune of encountering so far in my 16 years of existence.

Read what I said again-including the part of the statement that you conveniently forgot to quote.

Because I don't accept all of your arguments, and because I disagree with your supposedly bulletproof theory pertaining to Nigerian entrepeneurial superiority, that means I hate all Nigerians.

Sure. That's a great argument you've made right there.

I do not hate all Nigerians, you lying ignoramus! I have Nigerians in my frikkin family, for christ sakes! Just because I don't agree with your arguments does not mean that I hate Nigerians. Get that through your thick skull!

On a personal level, dealing solely with yourself I strongly dislike your attitude. That dislike does not pertain to all Nigerians. Stop mincing my words, stop creating lies, stop coming to early conclusions and get your ****ing facts straight!

It is not a question of being "superior" as you claim (I have never used the word superior)

You didn't have to use it, matthias. Your argument implicated that there was an inherent entrepeneurial superiroity among Nigerians when compared to other people.

but a question of observing and drawing conclusions. you seem to have a grave problem with Nigeria´s economic rising, despite many problems still remaining and Yar´Adua´s slwoness!

A successful Nigeria could do for west Africa what Japan has done for East asia.
I have no reason to not want a successful Nigeria. Just because I don't speak as glowingly about the nation as you do does not mean I want to see failure-that would be idiocy, for it would mean a lack of success for much of west africa as well.

hahhaha, that is a good one!

Oh really? You want to tell me what's so frikkin funny here?

It is the truth, I never went into any thread with the sole intent to cause trouble. That is fact, and if this is not the case then I dare you to prove otherwise.

I still vividly remmeber that time where you have shown persistently Yaba, Surulere and Ikeja pics of Lagos...your commenst were not really nice and showed your dislike for Nigeria.

Let's see you back up your argument this time, because judging from what I've seen of your mental capacity so far in this discussion, your memories are nothing to rely on at all.

Here is the thread in question-it is the ONLY thread in which I posted photos of Nigerian cities.

Here are the 3 posts I made in that thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=178

Next post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=319

Heh, well...those pics shed some light, although I'm not suprised. My Stepfather(who is Ghanaian) has told me many a time that Lagos isn't a place you really want to go to.

My stepfather, who has lived in Lagos, really said that, and in any case, that is no representative of a hatred of Nigerians. Lagos is one city-Nigeria has hundreds of other large towns.

Next post: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=438

It was an attempted photo post-I removed them all.

Final Post: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=444

....wow. You guys are far too easily offended. First, I'm confident those aren't double posting; I checked before I posted them, and unless I made an error, they shouldn't be. I wasn't trying to slander Nigeria at all, I just thought those were some pretty ordinary photos. I was only trying to help get the thread back on track; I wasn't launching any sort of "negative propoganda" campaign.

Whatever man, y'all can post what you want. I don't need anything to do with another internet flame war.
Peace out.

I don't even know where Ikeja, Surulere, and Yaba are. All I did was go to flickr, find some photos and post them. I wasn't trying to do anything wrong, but to you lot nearly EVERYTHING is an offense! You get angry at everybody, even those who don't mean any harm, and then you expect people to like you.

Most of my pics weren´t slum-centred, how many times did I say that I want to creAtE a positive image of Africa. HOOOOWWW MANY TIMES????
Yes, I once shwoed slum pictures of Lagos but this was a direct result of Arthabitat03 who accused me of painting a rosy pictures of Lagos otherwise I wouldn´t have done it. I felt pissed off by attacks....and to add more "balance".

Your slum post, matthias, was the 9th post in the thread. ArtHabitat had not yet posted any photos in the thread, which had itself just gotten started.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...15&postcount=9

And then look at your next post in the thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...1&postcount=11

Ikeja photos. I must also add that they are not particularly impressive(especially the first 2).

I still remember very well the Virgin Nigeria pic that you posted. I rebuked you because you didn´t show the newer models like the airbus Aircafts

You don't even know what you're talking about.

The 767-200ER that Virgin Nigeria uses is still being built today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767

The A330s that Virgin Nigeria has and the 767-200 I posted could very well be the same age-the A330 is a newer design, but the 767-200ER has been in production at the same time, up until today. Their difference in age is only 3 years-1987 intro for the A330 and 1984 for the 767-200ER.
The 767 is by no means an antiquated aircraft. You were far too hasty to try and label me. If you hadn't been, you would have realized the mistake you were making. Instead, you went out of your way just to find something to get angry about-why, I do not know.

I was only trying to contribute, Matthias.

which pointed to the fact that you only think that "trash is good for Nigeria because in your eyes it is such a terrible, corrupt and hopeless country", right?

The 767-200ER is NOT TRASH! If you knew anything about aircraft, you would actually know that. Look it up, for the love of god! The thing is still being built and is used by dozens of operators worldwidfe, many of whom are in the west! Qantas, Zoom Air(Canada), Air New Zealand, El Al, Delta, Continental, etc, etc-the list goes on! If Nigeria's 767 is trash, then just about half of the world's airlines are utilizing trash to, and many of these are in the US and Europe!

Look it up yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._767_operators
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767#767-200

This explains why you have picked the old B767 aircraft instead of showing the modern A330-200 aircraft!

All I did was go to Airliner's.net and find a photo of Virgin Nigeria's aircraft. End of story. There were no other motives. There was no malice involved. Furthermore, the 767-200ER is not trash.

You are looking for a reason to be angry when there is none. You make arguments and make trouble where it doesn't exist by attacking people irregardless of their intent, and then expect folks to be happy with you.

Moreover, you want to show the real Lagos but suprisngly, you felt pissed off when I once asked you to show the slums of Windhoek.

This post here?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...3&postcount=69

1. "Vast majority" is an exaggeration. Only 28% of Namibians live in poverty, so it isn't realistic to say that a "majority" of people live in slums. Maybe a few too many do, more than there should be, sure, but a majority? No.

2. Yes, whites still hold a lot of wealth in namibia-but like SA, there is a rapidly growing black middle class.

3. I to am wary of another Zimbabwe-South Africa and namibia are the most likely future Zimbabwes if they keep going the way they are, although things could turn around before then. We can hope...Mugabe has got to die soon anyhow.

4. You want a Namibian slum in Windhoek, here you go.





I dunno why you're asking-you get really pissed when anybody shows some less than stellar pics of Naija...why would you want to see bad pics of namibia?

Well, whatever, you've got them.

Note this key phrase:

you get really pissed when anybody shows some less than stellar pics of Naija...why would you want to see bad pics of namibia?

You had just finished getting pissed off at me in your Lagos thread, and then you came to the Windhoek thread specifically to askf ro slum photos.
That seemed strange-I had every justification for asking the questions that I asked.

As for me being pissed, note how I kindly provided you with the photos you had asked for.
Yeah, that sounds like a really pissed off reaction. "I'm very angry at you, but let me give you what you want anyway!"

Confused is a far more accurate conclusion. Why would you aks for slum photos after just getting very angry at the posting of such photos in your thread?

In anycase, you did answer to my confusion here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...1&postcount=70

Suprisngly, you stick to showing only overwhelmingly glowing pictures of places that you cherish!

You specifically asked for slum photos and I gave you them! You're lying through your teeth right now! That and the photos I showed of Lagos were in no way worse than what I've shown of Kampala or Nairobi-look for yourself if you disagree. All I do is go to different sites, find different posts, and randomly save and subsequently post them here-that is it! You are making up trouble where there is none to have been had.

(nothing agaisnt Windhoek here for my part which is a nice city)...but this is just something that I have observed.

You haven't observed a damn thing. You're just a blatant liar.

[Bond James Bond]

There appears to be no hope for this thread.

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

There appears to be no hope for this thread.

Probably not.

[Matthias Offodile]

I have no data for Italy's poverty rate, but I do know that it's unemployment rate has been pegged at about 7%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/it.html

Germany stands at 7.1%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gm.html

Seems right about even to me...

Can you speak German I will give you the articles!!!???? Read the Handelblatt of yeatsrday and the release of their new study. www.handelsblatt.com and look for the word "Italien" in the news archives. Same for www.faz.ne.t Cia factbook is wack, haven´t we said this on the forum, the put Equatorial Guinea´s GDP per head at over 50 000 US dollars, says all about the page!

Correct. If you cannot prove it, then why should I believe it, much less take it as irrefutible fact?

Weird, only hard facts count. Well, you seem to have never been aquainted with social sceince studies and their ways to represent "social reality" empirically, how narrow-minded and blunt and dreadfully one-sided!

In other words, you cannot prove anything.

Just as I thought.

Read what I said AGAIN!!!!!

Why does the Ivory Coast have more in the way of ethnic minorities than does Nigeria?
There could have been several reasons. Perhaps the most important among them were the polciies made by the successive post-colonial governments in these respective countries. Some were more friendly to these minorities than others.

This is certainly not the case, read the press. Just one article among many. Ivorité has nothing to do with minorities at first place. The crisis is far from over, unfortunately, peace remains highly fragile and the new election will be crucial and just look at Kenya which surely was tens times more peaceful than the current Ivory Coast. http://www.businessinafrica.net/news...ica/868710.htm

They are less than 1% of the population, according to the CIA. There are, however, many more expatriates that have come to work in the oil industry.

That´s a good one! Which oil sector, the one said Gbagbo siphoned off the money and made his cronies and himself rich... same for the cocoa sector. Here is one more:

http://fr.allafrica.com/stories/200710231000.html


As for the figures they are old, no longer accurate, check the French embassy in Abidjan, if you are really interested, and what they advise their citizens who wish to travel to Ivory Coast. Moreover, read the Francophone (not the French press) daily and look in the archives section. As you might know, I lived there and the vast majority of those my parents knew left for good (even original Ivorians themselves looked for greener pastures).

I do not hate all Nigerians, you lying ignoramus! I have Nigerians in my frikkin family, for christ sakes! Just because I don't agree with your arguments does not mean that I hate Nigerians. Get that through your thick skull!

On a personal level, dealing solely with yourself I strongly dislike your attitude. That dislike does not pertain to all Nigerians. Stop mincing my words, stop creating lies, stop coming to early conclusions and get your ****ing facts straight!

Really??? You are mincing the words yourself now, I have not been the only one who criticized you and your f++++++ attitude towards Nigeria. So what the fuck are you debating here now , you also had quarels with other meber mr Sancrosnt! Moreover, get your facts right and try to be a little more critical and don´t believe numbers like a blind man follows his dog! They are only part of the story, Mr "only hard-fact believer".

A successful Nigeria could do for west Africa what Japan has done for East asia.
I have no reason to not want a successful Nigeria. Just because I don't speak as glowingly about the nation as you do does not mean I want to see failure-that would be idiocy, for it would mean a lack of success for much of west africa as well.

Agreed! At least this has got into your skull .... not only for West africa but for Africa as a whole which again shows that you fear Nigerian influence on the continent.

It is the truth, I never went into any thread with the sole intent to cause trouble. That is fact, and if this is not the case then I dare you to prove otherwise.

Look I don´t have the time and I don´t feel like searching all your posting , amybe you have the time to pass your days away on the internet, I don´t, no longer, ....and it doesn´t make sense to me neither because whatever I present will be ton to pieces by you.. All I know (and I am certainly not the only one) is that you don´t like Nigeria based on some past , the view isolated past argumets and links that you have given here and also taken out of their context and no longer traceable and comprehenseible in its entirety FULLSTOP!

I don't even know where Ikeja, Surulere, and Yaba are. All I did was go to flickr, find some photos and post them. I wasn't trying to do anything wrong, but to you lot nearly EVERYTHING is an offense! You get angry at everybody, even those who don't mean any harm, and then you expect people to like you.

I give a damn on if everybody likes me here or not (at least from Nigerian haters like you, I know that you and the vast majority of the forumer hate me and I can live perfectly well with it), my aim is to present Africa and its achievements (an I am not blind to its problems) and not to kiss anybody´s ass. Moreover, why should I go against my nature and speak in diplomatic tongues something which I consider hypocritical?
Moreover, I also collected pics about Botswana and namibia and even opened thread in the main section Cityscapes...and you, my dear little boy, were thankful for it!

You specifically asked for slum photos and I gave you them! You're lying through your teeth right now! That and the photos I showed of Lagos were in no way worse than what I've shown of Kampala or Nairobi-look for yourself if you disagree. All I do is go to different sites, find different posts, and randomly save and subsequently post them here-that is it! You are making up trouble where there is none to have been had.

Really? I have also shown the slum pics of Lagos, a quintessential factor, because people accused me of painted Lagos in rosy colour although they themselves only show nice pics in their respective threads. I have asked you to go to the South African forum and ask them to show the slums of cape town, Durban etc. See how people will react there? The mod will surely delete the pics or lock up the thread

You haven't observed a damn thing. You're just a blatant liar

Yeah, you are "true" as ever. I am shameless liar for having been one of the earlier initators of the General african section despite the stiff and very unfriendly opposition that we had had here before our sub-forum was lauched

Yes, i am liar for providing information and photos and projects about Nigeria (my country although I am currently living abroad for which certain members attcked me here as well), about lauching threads about the culture like music and Nollywood, fashion etc.

Yes, I am a shameless liar for providing all the information about countries such as Angola. Have you checked how many pics and projects that I have posted in there and that I am non-angolan but still contributed massively to showing the country in a good light for which I was attacked once in the past? Anyway, I have received a notice from Angolan and several non Angolan who said that I am doing a good job.



And all the other threads that I have staffed with pics?

Do you know how difficult it is to search for new projects in Africa where publicity/marketing is in its infacy at best?

Moreover, it was you who jumped in and attcked me, I only said

You cannot compare Nigeria to Ghana. Impossible......

this was due to a message from a guy that commented in an unreflected way

Yeah! Just look at Nigeria. But Ghana is more politically stable than Nigeria, it also scores better on social indicators and in ranked higher on the HDI index than Nigeria (Medium Vs Low Human Development.) So I would say that with this news of discovering oil, Ghana's future looks even brighter

the sentence "just look at Nigeria" has a disrepectful and disdainful undertone and points to the guy´s attitude that he cultivates about the terrible" Nigeria..

The word Nigeria seem to have aroused your passion again and it was you who took up the debate afterwards....although I only said that if population are big and institutions are weak, oil can lead to trouble.



Yes, you are the angel spitting on the devil/ the "liar" like me

OKPOH!

[Matthias Offodile]

There appears to be no hope for this thread.

Yeah, it should be closed and deleted, something which happens on other forums more often.

[Alex Roney]

The thing is you could flip it around and say "if Nigeria had no oil, what would be of their economy?" Afterall exports are completely driven by petrol, one could say "we wouldn't be as corrupt" but then again you've lost the base of your economy. Large populations are a factor, regarding poverty and distribution of wealth BUT to say having a smaller population would make Nigeria "a shining example" is complete farce. A large population is a complete simplification of Nigeria's problems.

Now regarding the thread, I really don't think this will be a "revolutionary discovery", but thats not a bad thing. Personally even though oil is a essential commodity, the world has already reached its global peak of production. It's going down hill from there, more and more alternate means of energy are proping up more funding and research. Ghana should focus on 2-3 industries specialize on them and become a global producer. Chile was mentioned in this thread, do you know whats attributed their success? Specialization, unlike Argentina who wanted to compete with Brazil in every industry like automobiles, nuclear energy ect Chile wasn't as stupid. Even though Argentina has more wine vinyards than Chile, they still export less. With wine, salmon and copper you have a thriving economy, open marketed and growing. Key word its very stable. Ghana should follow this example.

[DanteXavier]

Originally Posted by Matthias Offodile

Can you speak German I will give you the articles!!!???? Read the Handelblatt of yeatsrday and the release of their new study. www.handelsblatt.com and look for the word "Italien" in the news archives. Same for www.faz.ne.t Cia factbook is wack, haven´t we said this on the forum, the put Equatorial Guinea´s GDP per head at over 50 000 US dollars, says all about the page!

So the CIA doesn't count as a valid source now, right?

Now I've heard everything. You're discounting it because it does not fit your particular views, Matthias-that is all.
Eq. Guinea's GDP per head(take the GDP of the nation and divde by the population) is actually about 50K-the book was not incorrect about that.

Weird, only hard facts count. Well, you seem to have never been aquainted with social sceince studies and their ways to represent "social reality" empirically, how narrow-minded and blunt and dreadfully one-sided!

There is nothing weird about it-it is simple common sense. You're coming here trying to establish these major theories about the different peoples in Africa and pass them off as absolutes when you have got no proof at all.
Why should I believe you when you can't even prove anything?

As for the figures they are old, no longer accurate, check the French embassy in Abidjan, if you are really interested, and what they advise their citizens who wish to travel to Ivory Coast. Moreover, read the Francophone (not the French press) daily and look in the archives section. As you might know, I lived there and the vast majority of those my parents knew left for good (even original Ivorians themselves looked for greener pastures).

I'm confident that most of the French are gone, but Ivory coast's non-black population is still nubering close to 4% of the populace.

Really??? You are mincing the words yourself now, I have not been the only one who criticized you and your f++++++ attitude towards Nigeria.

Of course you're not-I specifically said that you were not the only member I came into conflict with in your threads! In the lagos thread, I cam into conflict with 4 other forumers just like yourself. I never tried to say I never ha dquarrels with other members, you intellectual midget!
And furthermore, what does this crap about me having quarrels with other members on this forum have to do with my supposedly hating Nigerians? Why are you calling me "Mr. Sacrosanct" when not only did I never make the claim that I had not debated other members here, but my statement also had nothing whatsoever to do with that issue anyway??

Can you read properly?

Moreover, get your facts right and try to be a little more critical and don´t believe numbers like a blind man follows his dog! They are only part of the story, Mr "only hard-fact believer".

My critical reading skills are in the 99th percentile when compared to all Seniors and Juniors(16-18 years olds) in the United states-that would be according to PSAT scores. I will not stand here and listen to the likes of yourself talking down to me, especially when you don't even know how to put your arguments into the correct factual context, just like how you falsely attacked me in the airliners thread for posting a 767, as I showed in my last post. I've noted how you have yet to respond to what I've shown regarding that argument, and in this current post you aren't addressing the airliner issue at all. That is telling. Very telling.

That also having been said, believing facts when they are shown is only logical unless there are disparities within the data you see itself. You believe in supporting theories that have zero backing or proof to support them while trying to profess that, despite the lack of evidence, they are absolute fact, all the while basing your ewntire argument off of them. That is, in my mind, a mind bogglingly stupid type of loigc to live by.

Agreed! At least this has got into your skull .... not only for West africa but for Africa as a whole which again shows that you fear Nigerian influence on the continent.

You truly are an idiot.

Read what i said again.

A successful Nigeria could do for west Africa what Japan has done for East asia.
I have no reason to not want a successful Nigeria. Just because I don't speak as glowingly about the nation as you do does not mean I want to see failure-that would be idiocy, for it would mean a lack of success for much of west africa as well.

I just said I have no reason not to want a successful Nigeria, because a lack of a successful Nigeria could very well mean a lack of a truly successful west africa on the whole. I've just essentially said that I want to see Nigerian success for the sake of the region.

And yet somehow, through some sort of completely illogical, uncomprehensible process of thought you manage to translate this to: "I fear a successful Nigeria and do not want the country to spread its influence!"

How do you do that, Matthias? How do you take something that somebody says, and somehow manage to completely misinterpret it in the way you do? Are you a professional word twister/liar, or just a gifted amateur?

Look I don´t have the time and I don´t feel like searching all your posting , amybe you have the time to pass your days away on the internet, I don´t, no longer,

Its ok, buddy-I did it for you. The posts in question have all been put up for you to look. All the ones from the Lagos thread and the airliners thread, plus the Windhoek thread.

I also don't understand how someone with 5 times as many posts as I could look down at me and say "You waste too many of your days on the internet, and I do not". That is truly hilarious.

....and it doesn´t make sense to me neither because whatever I present will be ton to pieces by you..

It's not my fault that the arguments you put forth are weak and often times very easy to rip apart.

All I know (and I am certainly not the only one) is that you don´t like Nigeria based on some past ,

I have no reason to hate Nigeria based on the incidents that have occured over my lifetime-there are most definitely not enough of them to make an issue of.

the view isolated past argumets and links that you have given here and also taken out of their context and no longer traceable and comprehenseible in its entirety FULLSTOP!

Give it up already! The arguments are in no way taken out of context-you can go directly to the thread itself(through the linked posts) and view it in its entirety. They are fully comprehensible, and fully traceable.

Do it-if you are so sure that I have done nothing other than enter your thread to cause trouble, prove that this is all I have done. I've linked youmyself-grow a sack, man up and provide some back up for your accusations, or just shut up altogether!

I give a damn on if everybody likes me here or not (at least from Nigerian haters like you, I know that you and the vast majority of the forumer hate me and I can live perfectly well with it), my aim is to present Africa and its achievements (an I am not blind to its problems) and not to kiss anybody´s ass.

Apparently your goal is also to slander as many people as possible while you are at it. You just can't be hospitable, can you? You must find some reason to label them and pin accusations on them, even if they are not true.

Moreover, I also collected pics about Botswana and namibia and even opened thread in the main section Cityscapes...and you, my dear little boy, were thankful for it!

I to have collected many pics, and you were also grateful. Of this I have no doubt.

Really?

Go and look for yourself.

I have also shown the slum pics of Lagos, a quintessential factor, because people accused me of painted Lagos in rosy colour although they themselves only show nice pics in their respective threads.

This post was not of that intent:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...1&postcount=11

Ikeja photos...not particularly impressive ones.

I have asked you to go to the South African forum and ask them to show the slums of cape town, Durban etc. See how people will react there? The mod will surely delete the pics or lock up the thread

The photos I displayed were not even slums, Matthias. One was of Arik Air headquarters. 3 others showed taxis(an old nissan van, a VW taxi, and a number of such vehicles in central lagos) and another showed a church in the background with construction going on in the middle divider of a highway.

Yeah, you are "true" as ever. I am shameless liar for having been one of the earlier initators of the General african section despite the stiff and very unfriendly opposition that we had had here before our sub-forum was lauched

That doesn't have anything to do with you lying and atempting to slander people while pinning false accusations upon them, matthias. I never said you weren't a great contributor to the forum. I said that you were unfairly labelling and attacking certain people.

Yes, i am liar for providing information and photos and projects about Nigeria (my country although I am currently living abroad for which certain members attcked me here as well), about lauching threads about the culture like music and Nollywood, fashion etc.

That doesn't have anything to do with you lying and atempting to slander people while pinning false accusations upon them, matthias. I never said you weren't a great contributor to the forum. I said that you were unfairly labelling and attacking certain people.

Yes, I am a shameless liar for providing all the information about countries such as Angola. Have you checked how many pics and projects that I have posted in there and that I am non-angolan but still contributed massively to showing the country in a good light for which I was attacked once in the past? Anyway, I have received a notice from Angolan and several non Angolan who said that I am doing a good job.

That doesn't have anything to do with you lying and atempting to slander people(many of whom mean no harm) while pinning false accusations upon them, matthias. I never said you weren't a great contributor to the forum. I said that you were unfairly labelling and attacking certain people.

And all the other threads that I have staffed with pics?

Do you know how difficult it is to search for new projects in Africa where publicity/marketing is in its infacy at best?

That doesn't have anything to do with you lying and atempting to slander people while pinning false accusations upon them, matthias. I never said you weren't a great contributor to the forum. I said that you were unfairly labelling and attacking certain people.

Moreover, it was you who jumped in and attcked me, I only said

I obviously was in disagreement with your theory, and rightfully so since it has so far shown to be based on purely imaginary evidence.

the sentence "just look at Nigeria" has a disrepectful and disdainful undertone and points to the guy´s attitude that he cultivates about the terrible" Nigeria..

The word Nigeria seem to have aroused your passion again and it was you who took up the debate afterwards....although I only said that if population are big and institutions are weak, oil can lead to trouble.

You were pushing a theory that is, as I have shown, unstable and that lacks any basis in factual evidence, rather relying primarily on imaginary constructs dreamt up by yourself.

Yes, you are the angel spitting on the devil/ the "liar" like me

OKPOH!

I don't have to be an Angel, matthias, to prove you wrong. I also never said I was an angel.

You're twisting words and putting arguments and claims into other peoples' mouth once again. This seems to be a habit with you.