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Old May 4th, 2011, 03:11 AM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
x2. I hate to shatter the mood in this thread, but this is spot on. There is enough office space being built for every man, woman and child to have their own 5 x 5 cubicle, and I've heard 64 million empty apartments in China, and growing. This sort of government subsidized growth is unsustainable when little to none of the newly constructed space is being occupied.

I'd love to see these projects constructed, and I wish China the best, however I have to agree with the previous post. This is completely unsustainable.
How old were the statistics?

China had been BOOMING in the past 2-3 years, much like the US in the 20-30s before the great depression, if not in a larger scale. The GDP of PRC more than doubled during the 4 year period between 2005 and 2009.

With more than four times the US population, I don't find the skyscraper boom in China as any surprise.


IMO your analysis might apply to the middle east, but as far as I can see, the demands for skyscrapers are pretty sufficient.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 10:08 AM   #1342
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Thanks for sharing info
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Old May 4th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
x2. I hate to shatter the mood in this thread, but this is spot on. There is enough office space being built for every man, woman and child to have their own 5 x 5 cubicle, and I've heard 64 million empty apartments in China, and growing. This sort of government subsidized growth is unsustainable when little to none of the newly constructed space is being occupied.

I'd love to see these projects constructed, and I wish China the best, however I have to agree with the previous post. This is completely unsustainable.
No, the 64mil empty apartments are from private investment!!!
They are assumed to be empty because there is no power usage recorded from these apartments.

The government needs to put a stop to this by building more affordable homes, with the same quality as private investments and sell them at a lower price to allow the Chinese to buy them. If you look at how high the house prices are going, its not a bad idea that the government buys back the land to develop. At least the people living in the old houses get a new and bigger home. What they need to do is to not sell these land to private developers, thats when the prices and speculation occurs!!!

Empty apartments is a far more desirable situation in a nation of 1.3 billion than too few houses (hence pushing up the prices). In Australia, or perth in particular, some estimates claim that the houses are over valued by as much as 56%. That would certainly be a problem if that was in China. Its a matter of time before the Australian housing market crashes, and when it does, Im sure there will be plenty of customers from around the world waiting to buy it all up!!!!
About empty cities like Ordos? i think there are people living there now, if not, its just a matter of time really.

Last edited by deepblue01; May 4th, 2011 at 11:24 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 06:29 PM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblue01 View Post
No, the 64mil empty apartments are from private investment!!!
They are assumed to be empty because there is no power usage recorded from these apartments.

The government needs to put a stop to this by building more affordable homes, with the same quality as private investments and sell them at a lower price to allow the Chinese to buy them. If you look at how high the house prices are going, its not a bad idea that the government buys back the land to develop. At least the people living in the old houses get a new and bigger home. What they need to do is to not sell these land to private developers, thats when the prices and speculation occurs!!! ...

.
Or wait until the 'bubble' burst and pick the units off at mass discounted prices. Then as 'good communists' do, sell these units at very affordable prices to the poor.

Note that China does not hestitate to raise interest rate(s) (currently @ 6% +).
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Old May 4th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #1345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblue01 View Post
No, the 64mil empty apartments are from private investment!!!
They are assumed to be empty because there is no power usage recorded from these apartments.
I wonder how many of those empty apartments are either under demolition, newly built or on sale because their former residents moved to a better flat.

Quote:
The government needs to put a stop to this by building more affordable homes, with the same quality as private investments and sell them at a lower price to allow the Chinese to buy them. If you look at how high the house prices are going, its not a bad idea that the government buys back the land to develop. At least the people living in the old houses get a new and bigger home. What they need to do is to not sell these land to private developers, thats when the prices and speculation occurs!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12674844

China to invest $200bn in low-cost homes to curb prices
Labourers work at a residential construction site China's economic success has seen a huge spike in demand for property pushing up prices.
The move comes as soaring home prices spur complaints about affordability.

In January, prices of new homes rose in 68 of the 70 cities monitored by the government compared to a year earlier.

The spending is a part of a commitment to construct 36 million low-cost homes over the next five years. [...]


Quote:
About empty cities like Ordos? i think there are people living there now, if not, its just a matter of time really.
The ghost Ordos thing is a big media hoax. The new district is u/c, and there are massive industrial projects under construction. They published the same stories about Shenzhen in the 80s. Those losers... One of my favourites: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...3948/index.htm
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.
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Old May 7th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #1346
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Another one for Nanning.
China-ASEAN Guangxi Mayors Tower. 349.8m, 82 floors.

Released today by the local gov website: http://www.nnghj.gov.cn/Common/Index...w.aspx?id=1450

Still so little info.



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Old May 7th, 2011, 10:27 AM   #1347
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WUXI | North Station Twin Towers | 2x300m~, 78 and 68 floors. Proposed – Under design. Coming twin tower project next to Wuxi’s new railway station. No specific info by the moment.
The tallest tower will have 358m. They think they're building 2x358m actually. We should open a thread as soon as they release some more clear stuff. Since the developer is Shimao, we shouldn't trust anything they publish too much. They lie all the time about heights.
http://news.wuxi.soufun.com/2011-05-03/4965960.htm
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Old May 11th, 2011, 05:03 AM   #1348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
x2. I hate to shatter the mood in this thread, but this is spot on. There is enough office space being built for every man, woman and child to have their own 5 x 5 cubicle, and I've heard 64 million empty apartments in China, and growing. This sort of government subsidized growth is unsustainable when little to none of the newly constructed space is being occupied.

I'd love to see these projects constructed, and I wish China the best, however I have to agree with the previous post. This is completely unsustainable.
I also believe that it is scary but I consider more scary the fact that the housing prices have doubled in the last 5 years than the 64million empty apartments. This fact is huge but you also need to consider that about 400 million will move from rural areas to cities in the next 10 years.

China is on a whole different scale and we will see how they deal with the inflation and building and soon see how it affects.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 12:21 AM   #1349
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TIANJIN | Yujiapu Twin Towers | 2x300m+. Proposed. Developer: Tishman Speyer. Announced in late 2010, still no images.
They've posted several renders. They didn't credit or mention the source.

Alleged render for Tishman Speyer twin towers.


Plus, alleged render for 01-35 Plot also in Yujiapu district. 340m they said.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 10:25 AM   #1350
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Despite increasing home prices, Yan Jinming, a land management professor at the Renmin University of China, told China Daily on Thursday the real estate market is cooling as land supply increases and money flow tightens.

"More land opened up for affordable housing"
- Updated: 2011-05-13 07:09 By Wang Qian (China Daily)
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Old May 15th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #1351
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CHONGQING | Danzishi Area Supertall | 300m+. Concept proposal – Long term plan. Danzishi area will host the third phase of Chongqing’s main CBD after Jiefangbei and Jiangbei phases are developed. All the preliminary designs for this masterplan show a highrise clearly taller than 300m.
Concept Video. 500m+ according to the latest press releases.
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Old May 15th, 2011, 05:43 PM   #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Concept Video. 500m+ according to the latest press releases.
looks like the reused the design for a tower in Jumeirah Gardens City in Dubai
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Old May 15th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #1353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
x2. I hate to shatter the mood in this thread, but this is spot on. There is enough office space being built for every man, woman and child to have their own 5 x 5 cubicle,
Not even close . You have to understand something about developing nations in that they suffer from insane pent-up demand . Remember , we're talking about a country of over 1.3 billion people . It's also a country that is only now , after nearly four decades starting to see economic growth turn into office construction . Imagine if New York had the same demand for office space as it does today except none of it was built . We've barely seen the beginning of office construction in China .

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
and I've heard 64 million empty apartments in China, and growing. This sort of government subsidized growth is unsustainable when little to none of the newly constructed space is being occupied.
Maybe but you have to realize that most of that housing is the stuff that was built as a stop-gap measure in the seventies . It was actually never meant to be in any way "permanent". 64 million empty units may well be true but to truly understand whether that is an unhealthy number , you have to understand the nature of the Chinese real estate market . Much of what sits empty is empty by design . The government wants that stuff emptied out so that it can be replaced .


Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
I'd love to see these projects constructed, and I wish China the best, however I have to agree with the previous post. This is completely unsustainable.
Your wish will come true , don't you worry . If you know China , you know that it's totally sustainable and in no way reflects a market that is in any way threatened by oversupply .
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Old May 15th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #1354
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wow...
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Old May 15th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #1355
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I don't think it is the best place to discuss about economy here. I am bear myself, yet such thing I prefer to see in relevant threads, like this one:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=350795
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Old May 16th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #1356
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wow
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Old May 16th, 2011, 10:43 AM   #1357
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Another 300m~ coming for Shenzhen. Pics by 冬雨. Can't wait to see the renders, 70 and 2x65 floors. Likely 1x300m~ and 2x250m+.
This project is called 赛格日立工业区升级改造项目 or SEG-Hitachi Industrial Park Redevelopment.



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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

Last edited by z0rg; May 16th, 2011 at 10:48 AM.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #1358
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CITIC Real Estate will launch its third supertall project, this time in Dalian, very close to Greenland project. Height unclear, but if the concept renders are reliable it's very likely taller than 300m.
http://job.realestate.citic.com/img/...html/info.html
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Old May 29th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #1359
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Sir,

Excellent work! How can we get in contact?

Robert
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Old May 29th, 2011, 06:12 PM   #1360
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http://www.ippr.com.cn:81/yejiview.aspx?id=169

This could be a supertall for Shenzhen:



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