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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
4-Way stops 28 20.90%
Roundabouts 104 77.61%
Neither 10 7.46%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 4th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #41
ChrisZwolle
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same rank junctions is something different than 4-way stops!

In a same rank junction, you only have to yield to the right, in a 4-way stop, you have the obligation to stop and let the other one pass who came first, despite of the direction he came from, if i understand correctly.
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Old January 4th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #42
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I've only seen one roundabout here, and it's in an isolated area near the airport.

So, I'm going to go with 4-way stops, it's the norm here.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
same rank junctions is something different than 4-way stops!

In a same rank junction, you only have to yield to the right, in a 4-way stop, you have the obligation to stop and let the other one pass who came first, despite of the direction he came from, if i understand correctly.
If every single direction have a stop sign,that equals not having any...the difference is only that you have to stop. Right-hand rule applies,with the right of way rule as secondary.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:12 AM   #44
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Roundabouts of course. Much better and more eye-pleasing.

I've seen 4 way stops only in the US, not in Europe.

In Zagreb, IMHO, there are too many traffic light intersections and many of those should be replaced by roundabouts.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:20 AM   #45
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With traffic lights, you are able to control the traffic flows better. Not with roundabouts.

Like you don't want the green-phase somewhere too long, because the next section can't handle that much traffic. So you have to queue the traffic somewhere to avoid other places to be congested.

This is not possible with roundabouts. Traffic lights also have a higher capacity. So congestion should take place earlier at a roundabout than at a traffic light intersection.

I have a roundabout at one of my commute routes, which can be terribly congested, sometimes you have to wait 10 - 15 minutes over 300 meters to enter a roundabout.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:45 AM   #46
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Chris I agree with you. I was referring to low-traffic intersections, I have some in my neighborhood, you'll never see more than 2 or 3 cars on that intersection at the same time, but local authority decided to put the traffic lights even though there's plenty of space and a roundabout would fit perfectly
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:59 AM   #47
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Both are bad, but if I had to choose, then overall a 4-way stop is even worse than a roundabout.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
With traffic lights, you are able to control the traffic flows better. Not with roundabouts.

Like you don't want the green-phase somewhere too long, because the next section can't handle that much traffic. So you have to queue the traffic somewhere to avoid other places to be congested.

This is not possible with roundabouts. Traffic lights also have a higher capacity. So congestion should take place earlier at a roundabout than at a traffic light intersection.
Capacity isn't everything. Roundabouts are much safer than other types of intersections. Plus, in many urban and suburban areas, rush hour congestion is so endemic that improving flow at one intersection just force-feeds other nearby intersections more efficiently. So the choice isn't more congesttion versus less, it's an undetectable difference in congestion levels but a significant improvement in safety. I vote for the latter.

BTW, I live in Gwinnett County, GA, USA, which has 800,000 people and exactly one proper roundabout, which opened a couple of weeks ago.

Back on topic: There are a good many four-way stops around here, and as big a fan of roundabouts as I am, I don't see many of them that are obvious sites for roundabouts. But there are plenty of sites I know of where multiphase traffic signals, turn lanes, underground drainage, etc. were installed and where roundabouts should've at least been considered.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:41 AM   #49
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I definitely think roundabouts are the safer of the two types of intersection. They flow well and give priority to the busiest entrance by merit of action. I don't agree with a few international rules with roundabouts such as the French "give way to those joining the roundabout". This, in my opinion, doesn't work as well as the simple "give way to the right" (or left for right hand driving countries).

The only downside with roundabouts is that they are not as pedestrian friendly as a traffic light manned intersection unless underpasses are built for pedestrians (as is frequent in the UK).
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
If every single direction have a stop sign,that equals not having any...the difference is only that you have to stop. Right-hand rule applies,with the right of way rule as secondary.
No. Chris was actually right. In an all-way (4-way) stop junction, the right of way goes to the person who stopped first, not to the person who comes from the right. Only if two people stopped at the same time, does the person from the right go first, but that is quite rare.

Also, a lot of these rules are formalities (at least here in Toronto). Almost no one actually stops at an all-way stop sign, unless there already is a car stopped or very close to the intersection. One feature of all-way stops is that if one approaches such an intersection, then one can just slow down and continue driving without stopping completely, even if there is a car approaching from the side (unlike a normal stop sign), because you know that the other driver will have to stop, and that you will come first (of course, you should make sure that the other driver is slowing down to stop).

Also, most drivers in North America (at least here in Toronto, from my personal experience) aren't very familiar with the right priority rule, simply because it rarely applies here. While it exists in the driver education books for an uncontrolled intersection, North America does not use the priority (yellow square) sign. Theoretically, it is a bad system, because ideally when one approaches an intersection without any signs, one has to make sure that the crossing direction has a stop or yield sign (otherwise the right has priority), but in reality, such intersections are virtually non-existent here, and I would say completely non-existent in large cities. So if you see no signs at an intersection, you just go through without slowing down (the other direction will always have a stop sign).

However, the side effect of this is that if 2 cars come to an all-way stop intersection at the same time, very often the right of way rule (priorite a droite) isn't actually used (even though by law it should), but instead the drivers just negotiate by looking at each other, waving, and just slowly starting to move (most people have an automatic transmission, so it's easy to crawl ) While it may sound confusing, it works quite well, and the drivers here are generally very courteous (unlike in some places in Europe). Such a situation isn't that common anyway, except during rush hour when many drivers take the smaller streets to avoid the traffic on the larger ones.

Main streets almost never have all-way stops (at least here in Toronto). They always have traffic lights. Sometimes you do have 4-lane roads intersecting with all-way stops (at some large shopping areas), and it's often quite confusing in this case.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #51
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I like both for different reasons.

For higher traffic areas, I prefer 4 way stops. (Higher traffic as in not enough traffic to warrant a light) That way, you aren't waiting forever to pass the intersection. Mostly during the day, everyone gets an equal chance to get through the intersection at the same rate. Wheras sometimes I am waiting to turn into a roudabout forever.

When there is less traffic, of course roundabouts are better. I've lived in Boulder, CO for a while and we have more roundabouts here than a normal city in Colorado and they are 100% better than 4 way stops when then aren't any cars around. When there is no traffic, you can just keep driving down the street without stopping one single time. However we do have some streets without them, instead having 4 way stops, and having to stop at every single intersection is so annoying. Especially when it's later in the day and there isn't a single car around. Having to stop 10 times within 10 blocks is the most pointless thing ever. If it wasn't for cops patrolling all the time, I would just blow it off. But like most people, I do a half stop, I get to the intersection, if there is no one around, I slow down then speed back up again to get through the intersection.

Both are nice to have, I definitely lean more towards roundabouts, but sometimes 4 way stops are the way to go.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:02 PM   #52
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people here are right - roundabouts are the safest intersections. nobody is doing more than 30-40 km/h, depends about size, and at this speed the worst thing you can do is crumpled bonnet or door. at normal intersections you will allways have idiots or uncareful drivers who don't stop at STOP or red light and we know how those accidents finnish.

but roundabouts are not allways aceptable - i'd say they are perfect for medium traffic or maybe little bit higher. for high traffic they are not the best solution, and for low traffic there is no need for them.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #53
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Roundabout is not as dangerous as a 4-Way Stop I think
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Old January 5th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #54
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Some neighborhoods here are slowly having more 4-way stop (usually, it's just 2-way stop... the other 2 don't have stop signs) intersections replaced with roundabouts, which are really 4-way intesections with the stop signs removed, and a circle built in the middle. In this case, I prefer the roundabout. The only problem is the odd person will drive through without slowing down or looking, so you have to approach these with some caution. Then again, you have to approach anything with caution.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #55
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Problem is that a good normal-designed roundabout takes up 40 meters in diameter. There isn't always room for that.

And a lot of US streets inside cities are 2 lanes per direction. That means you can't build a roundabout, or you need very much space to construct one.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #56
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I travel through four-way stops all the time and they are not at all dangerous. I can't remember ever seeing a collision in one- and if there was one it likely wouldn't be deadly because people are going so slow through them.
"The Cat" was right when he talked about people making eye contact. That happens a lot when two people have approached at the same time. I think most drivers understand the person to the right has the right-of-way when two vehicles have approached at the same time- but it's always good to have a glance at the other driver to make sure he or she is thinking the same way.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 03:12 PM   #57
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I've never seen a 4-way, I think they only exist in the Americas but I think roudabouts are better.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 04:12 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
No. Chris was actually right. In an all-way (4-way) stop junction, the right of way goes to the person who stopped first, not to the person who comes from the right. Only if two people stopped at the same time, does the person from the right go first, but that is quite rare.

This sign means exactly the same as 4 stop signs.
If there are no traffic lights,and every road is on the same rank,or have a stop sign(or primacy sign),the first who gets to it has the right of way. If more people get there at the same time,the one to the right. The 4-way stop is the same-rank junction,but you're obliged to stop there,because of the stop sign,whereas in the same-rank junction,you dont have to.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #59
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It doesn't mean that in the Netherlands, here, it means "dangerous crossing/intersection".
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:11 PM   #60
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It means that because its not controlled. You have to slow down,and look around. I bet its not placed at roundabouts or traffic lights.
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