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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
4-Way stops 28 20.90%
Roundabouts 104 77.61%
Neither 10 7.46%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:20 PM   #61
ChrisZwolle
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We only have this sign. You are obligated to stop here, even if there is no traffic. (very little people actually do this, they just slow down, and check if the road is clear).

Usually placed near crossings with buildings next to it, so you can't see if traffic is approaching with normal speed.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #62
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Same here. Then there is the

which means the same,but you dont have to stop. If every direction have any of these(both mean that you are obliged to give up your priority),than that means everyone have to give up priority,which equals to junctions that have no signs or anything at all.
So a 4way-stop is only present because of the environment nearby(I assume),but it is not different from a same-rank junction,which doesnt have any signs.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:28 PM   #63
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a 4-way stop is actually worse for the environment than other non-regulated crossings. A car pollutes the most with acceleration.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #64
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I voted both because in certain areas both can be good, but overall 4 way stops would probably be best.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 06:55 PM   #65
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At 4-Way-Stops you have to commuticate with the other drivers sometimes and it can be confusing if they misunderstood each other...
Roundabouts have clear rules, so this is the better one.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 11:08 PM   #66
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I also voted both
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Old January 5th, 2008, 11:26 PM   #67
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This is an amazing roundabout in Swindon, UK

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Old January 6th, 2008, 01:31 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Same here. Then there is the

which means the same,but you dont have to stop. If every direction have any of these(both mean that you are obliged to give up your priority),than that means everyone have to give up priority,which equals to junctions that have no signs or anything at all.
So a 4way-stop is only present because of the environment nearby(I assume),but it is not different from a same-rank junction,which doesnt have any signs.
RawLee, again, you are not exactly correct. The concept of a 4-way stop does not exist anywhere in the world except for the US and Canada. I'm not sure what it means to have stop or yield signs at all directions in the rest of the world, but the 4-way stop is actually a special feature/traffic rule in North America, and is a separate feature with unique rules.

In an uncontrolled same-rank intersection the person on the right always has the right of way, not only if both have arrived at the same time. If you arrive at a same-rank intersection in Europe, you have to check carefully and make sure that no one is approaching from your right.

A 4-way stop intersection in North America is different. The person who stops first always has the right of way. Even if two drivers approach the intersection at almost the same time, but one driver stops a little earlier, that driver has the right of way, even if the other driver is to the right. Such an intersection must have stop signs (it cannot function without them), because without stop signs it is impossible to judge who arrived first, and it would be extremely dangerous and impossible to apply the rules of a 4-way stop to this situation.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 01:41 AM   #69
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Well,that circumstance was unknown for me...my impression is that its a bit more dangerous than same-rank junctions,because it can be debatable who was there first,but only 1 person can be on your right. Though it would need 2 rednecks who dont want to let the other to become dangerous.
Personally,I like traffic lights,because I've seen stupid drivers who think being first at the entrance of the roundabout allows the driver to neglect the other cars inside it.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 01:42 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioe View Post
I've never seen a 4-way stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
i have never seen 4 way stop,
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Originally Posted by Troopchina View Post
I've seen 4 way stops only in the US, not in Europe.
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Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I've never seen a 4-way, I think they only exist in the Americas but I think roudabouts are better.
You are all correct, because 4-way (or all-way, as they are more commonly known in Ontario) stops only exist in the US and Canada (perhaps some other country has them, but I haven't heard of any other country so far). They are not exactly equivalent to any other intersection type.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #71
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Maybe thats the reason...I've never seen more than 2 yield signs either in a junction(assuming 4 roads meet).
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Old January 6th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Well,that circumstance was unknown for me...my impression is that its a bit more dangerous than same-rank junctions,because it can be debatable who was there first,but only 1 person can be on your right. Though it would need 2 rednecks who dont want to let the other to become dangerous.
Personally,I like traffic lights,because I've seen stupid drivers who think being first at the entrance of the roundabout allows the driver to neglect the other cars inside it.
You are correct in certain situations. However, even if two drivers can't decide who was there first, the possibility of a collision is small, because both drivers would be first stopped or crawling very slowly. A same-rank intersection is more dangerous (arguably it's the most dangerous type if it is not the only type ), because in such intersections a driver who sees no conflicts from the right continues driving without significantly reducing speed. In a 4-way junction, even if someone starts moving slowly when they technically don't have the right of way (actually that happens very often when such a junction is congested and there are always 4 cars arriving every few seconds from all directions), the other drivers just let the driver through.

By the way, I do agree that roundabouts are safer and better in many situations. However, they are more expensive and difficult to implement, since they often require building a physical circle. On the other hand, 4-way junctions are much simpler - just throw in a stop sign at each direction, put a little "4-way" or "all-way" label under each (quite important!), and you are done.

Personally I think that intersections where there is more than one lane per direction should use neither roundabouts, nor 4-way stops, because both can be confusing and dangerous. In this case, only traffic lights or just normal stop signs or yield signs (if the intersecting road is not major).
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Old January 6th, 2008, 03:57 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republica View Post
This is an amazing roundabout in Swindon, UK

Amazingly confusing.. Is this the "Magic Roundabout"?
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Old January 6th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #74
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yes, it's magic roundabout. it is not that confusing as it seems at first sight. the only confusing thing is driving at left at this pic
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Old January 6th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #75
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Living in Americana, four way stops are everywhere. However, the trend is now to switch to roundabouts. This has occurred in the suburb I live in, which now has two or three roundabouts and is constructing more. I think both have there pros and cons, but roundabouts are definitely more fun to drive in.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 10:02 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat
In a 4-way junction, even if someone starts moving slowly when they technically don't have the right of way (actually that happens very often when such a junction is congested and there are always 4 cars arriving every few seconds from all directions), the other drivers just let the driver through.
Stopping would be 0km/h, nothing more. So if you have let's say 5 four-way stops on your way, you really need to slow down to zero 5 times, even if there's no other traffic? That seems kinda frustrating. And it's not good for pollution too, as someone already said. The positive thing about the european system that the speed you can cross the crossing is depending on the sight you have on the road on the right. So if there's a very good sight, you mostly don't even have to slow down, or maybe just a little.

In most cases I don't prefer round-abouts. The problem is that not each road connection is getting the same amount of traffic (while the're getting the same amount of capacity), so in most cases traffic lights, of just making one road major would handle traffic better. In Holland, there's an other (safety) problem with round-abouts: bicycles. Round-abouts without free bicycle paths are very dangerous, especially in combination with a big amount of truck traffic. Even if bicycles have a free path on the round-about (which are >95%) risks are not excluded. Since bicycles (and also pedestrians, of course) do much faster get injured, it's important to consider that...
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Old January 6th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
Stopping would be 0km/h, nothing more. So if you have let's say 5 four-way stops on your way, you really need to slow down to zero 5 times, even if there's no other traffic? That seems kinda frustrating. And it's not good for pollution too, as someone already said. The positive thing about the european system that the speed you can cross the crossing is depending on the sight you have on the road on the right. So if there's a very good sight, you mostly don't even have to slow down, or maybe just a little.
People rarely stop at 4-way intersections. They only stop if it won't be clear who arrived first, or there already are cars at the intersection. Otherwise, you just slow down, and since there is no car immediately adjacent to the intersection, you can just continue to accelerate without giving way to anyone.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 12:07 AM   #78
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There is a street in Tallinn that has a roundabout every 200m. The point of building these was to reduce speed and it's working well. Drivers see that there is no point in driving fast when you have to brake at every roundabout so they just cruise with and even speed.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 02:27 AM   #79
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I tell you what pisses me off, the mini roundabouts they are putting in everywhere and theres no surprise that they do this kind of thing in march when they realise they have underspent the local transport budget.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #80
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I hate mini-roundabouts...you have to slow down so much that even 30 feels like you are going to fly off the road.
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