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Old August 17th, 2015, 10:07 PM   #1161
Mateusz
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It will be downgraded even more in the future. At least that section near SHU's Howard building. That's roughly an area on a third picture.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 11:02 PM   #1162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Who on Earth thought that pedestrian underpasses were a good idea? There are a lot of them in my hometown, too, and they have the obvious problems associated with them -smell, darkness, and crime. It's good that they're being replaced with proper crossings all over Europe, be it putting the road itself underground or by means of a zebra crossing.
I think they are good on paper...But as usual with these things, the reality is very different! Arundel Gate in Sheffield is now just a flat 2 lane road with level pedestrian crossings.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #1163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
Who on Earth thought that pedestrian underpasses were a good idea? There are a lot of them in my hometown, too, and they have the obvious problems associated with them -smell, darkness, and crime. It's good that they're being replaced with proper crossings all over Europe, be it putting the road itself underground or by means of a zebra crossing.
Another downside of pedestrian underpasses is that they usually have stairs (a ramp would be either very long or very steep), so they aren't accessible to disabled or people carrying child prams or trolley suitcases.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 02:14 AM   #1164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Before the E6 was upgraded to motorway we used to have a wide shoulder 2-lane road in both countries. In Sweden this worked as a passing lane - but in Norway only as an emergency stopping lane.

Norway:


Sweden:


Naturally we all loved the Swedish way of driving since it meant it was almost like a 4-lane road, but every now and then you would get behind a slow Norwegian that didn't understand the Swedish system.

Now there are few remaining as center-barriers have been installed.
Just like in Ireland (photo: old N9 Moone bypass, now superseded by the M9 motorway and reclassified as a regional road):



Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
more confusing to me is Ireland, which uses dashed yellow lines at left edges only (both on motorways and state roads)
We do use yellow edge markings in Ireland - but broken lines are only used on non-motorway roads, solid lines are used on motorways (photo - M8 motorway):


Last edited by marmurr1916; August 20th, 2015 at 02:23 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 02:07 AM   #1165
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The prestigious German paper "Zeit" has published a couple of photos of transit roads between West Germany and West Berlin through GDR territory. The series is titled "25 years since the fall of the wall - trip through no man's land".
The introductory says taking photos along the transit routes was strictly prohibited. Luckily, there were photographers ignoring this rule.
Strict rules were in vigour for drivers on the transit motorways. The speed limit was the GDR's motorway limit at 100km/h. Infractions triggered harsh fines, to be paid in West German currency by transit travelers.

Now, off to the photos:

1. Notice the "Hauptstadt der DDR" suffix for Berlin - this was mandatory when referring to East Berlin.




2. One of the many watchtowers along transit routes.



3. Western travelers on the transit routes had to pay for gasoline with West German mark. Precious source of hard currency for the GDR.


4. "Western" and "Eastern" cars mixing on the parkings.




5. Typical speed trap as operated by the Volkspolizei. Well hidden and in general impossible to detect in time by "speeders" (5-10 km/h of excess were already sanctioned; the fine could quickly amount to 100 DM and above if the transit traveller drove a Mercedes or other prestigious car).




6. Ads for GDR products on motorway bridge. These had virtually no success with Western travellers.




7. GDR citizens were allowed to drive on the transit routes (after all, these were located in their own country...), but were subject to frequent controls.




8. Entering West Berlin from the transit route was strictly monitored as well, mainly to prevent any GDR citizen be smuggled across in a transit-traffic vehicle.



Article source: http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2014...r-mauerfall-fs
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 04:19 PM   #1166
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who built and cared for this road?
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 06:27 PM   #1167
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Probably it was built as Reichautobahn before WWII, when obviously it was a normal German domestic route.
In the 70s and 80s, after Willy Brandt established diplomatic relationships with GDR, the FRG gave some money to GDR to maintain the transit motorways between W. Germany and W. Berlin. However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original reichautobahnnen, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old August 23rd, 2015, 07:03 PM   #1168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
(I)t was built as Reich(s)autobahn before WWII, ...
... (H)ighways in the East ... by the beginning of the 90s ... still looked like the original (R)eich(s)autobahnnen, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).
No wonder that almost all DDR citizens dreamed all the time how to became a part of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (party officials excluded).
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 08:56 PM   #1169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Probably it was built as Reichautobahn before WWII, when obviously it was a normal German domestic route.
In the 70s and 80s, after Willy Brandt established diplomatic relationships with GDR, the FRG gave some money to GDR to maintain the transit motorways between W. Germany and W. Berlin. However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original reichautobahnnen, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).
The A14 Borsdorf-Dresden was completely built by the DDR. They also built the A19 and A24 with spur to Schwerin, of which the A24 had already been aligned as RAB, and the northwesternpart of the A10 Berliner Ring.
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 09:09 PM   #1170
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According to German Wikipedia, the financial contributions of the FRG to the GDR for rail and road transit infrastructure projects reached a total of 2210.5 million DM. This did not include the Transitpauschale, a de facto road toll "flat rate" charged every year by the GDR. From 1972 to 1975, this was 234.9 million DM annually, while in 1989, the last applicable year, it already amounted to 525 million DM.
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 11:33 PM   #1171
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No wonder that almost all DDR citizens dreamed all the time how to became a part of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (party officials excluded).
admittedly the extremely strict enforcement of the DDR Tempo 100 and the commonly unrestricted limits of the BRD were a clear and tangible aspect of freedom. Mind you, taking a Trabant over 100 takes patience, skill and borderline insanity. Notice how the VoPo in the pictures are equipped with high-performance imported police pursuit vehicles - Polski Fiat
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Old August 24th, 2015, 12:54 AM   #1172
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An interesting anecdote from the DDR transit routes in 1990 - after border controls were scrapped on the 1st July 1990, DDR laws still remained in place - such as the aforementioned Tempo 100 and the zero tolerance for drink driving. I've read an account somewhere that the DDR traffic police were still very strict during that time. There were also still some cases of people from both the BRD and DDR getting caught in the 'other' state without the right equipment. From what I gather, the "Berlin, Haupstadt der DDR" signs also vanished after the 1st of July 1990 - even though it was still very much legally the capital of the DDR.

Another curiosity is that Polish visas were actually sold on the A2/A12 within the DDR at that time too. Poland appeared to have a strange policy at that time of simply selling visas to tourists - similar to Egypt today.

What I'm not clear on is whether a West German visa after 1.07.90 was actually valid for entry into the DDR or not.
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Old August 24th, 2015, 02:29 AM   #1173
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
What I'm not clear on is whether a West German visa after 1.07.90 was actually valid for entry into the DDR or not.
Yes, it was:
http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/berl...ontrollen.html
https://books.google.de/books?id=XSY...%20ddr&f=false
http://www.budapest.diplo.de/Vertret...=2993436#link5
http://deutschlandreise.freiheit-und...ontrollen.html
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Old August 24th, 2015, 09:20 AM   #1174
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Leppävaara, Espoo, Finland

An ancient view at Leppävaara, in the outskirts of Helsinki. The road behind is the old road 1 from Helsinki to Turku.



This is how it looks today. The old road 1 is now the regional road 110.



The areal view shows that the place is currently a transportation and a commercial hub. The Ring 1 of Helsinki and the railway west main line meet here, and it is a terminus of the local bus traffic.



The red tick mark shows the approximate place of the old picture.
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Old August 24th, 2015, 10:59 AM   #1175
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However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original reichautobahnnen, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).
I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987 and as far as I can remember the motorways had no asphalt, the roadway was only blocks of concrete with bumpy joints inbetween. I dont think it would be comfortable to drive faster than 100km/h anyway.

I wonder what the procedure would be if your car broke down on a transit drive on the motorway to West-Berlin. Did you have to tow it out of the country ?
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Old August 24th, 2015, 01:40 PM   #1176
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I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987 and as far as I can remember the motorways had no asphalt, the roadway was only blocks of concrete with bumpy joints inbetween. I dont think it would be comfortable to drive faster than 100km/h anyway.
That reminds me of Prague-Brno motorway which is still in use today. Even reconstructed sections are made of concrete.
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Old August 25th, 2015, 12:14 AM   #1177
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I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987
I also made a bustrip through the DDR in 1987 with my school-class. We traveled from Werra via Eisenach and Weimar to Leipzig. A lot of other trips were on F-roads. Cobblestones with some bad asphalt at the roadside. Even on the F2 (now B2) between Leipzig and Lutherstadt-Wittenberg.
As far as I know only parts of the F2 (B2) between Leipzig Südvorstadt and Großdeuben (abzweig Zwenkau) I have seen an asphalt road in a not all too bad shape. I also remember the complete moon-landscape east of the F2 over there...
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Old August 25th, 2015, 02:00 AM   #1178
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Maybe for international folks, let's add that "F" meant Fernstraße ("long-distance road"), which in the hierarchy of roads were corresponding to the West German Bundesstraßen (B-roads).

Another interesting detail regarding DDR transit: Until 1982, there was no motorway connection between Hamburg and West Berlin. Transit traffic had to use the F5 road. This was the only transit route allowing vehicles that were not permitted to use motorways (like bicycles, scooters, tractors). The F5 ran through numerous towns, and transit trips took 5-6 hours from the border to West Berlin.

Both West and East Germany were in favor of building a motorway for this route which was completed in 1982. West Germany of course was interested in fast and smooth transit, while the DDR sought to reduce contacts between West and East Germans to a minimum possible.
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Old August 25th, 2015, 10:47 AM   #1179
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West Germany of course was interested in fast and smooth transit, while the DDR sought to reduce contacts between West and East Germans to a minimum possible.
Yes the DDR tried to isolate West-Berlin, they didnt make it easy for westgermans to get there, but on the other hand the DDR was dependant on the revenue from outsiders so they could get hard currency. That's why they had the Intershops along the transit-roads. Also the DDR let the BRD build the Hamburg-Berlin motorway, although that improved transit for the BRD (which they didnt like), but the DDR did get a new motorway for free. So the money was obviously more important than the national pride.


I think this is the motorway Hamburg-Berlin in 1986

Now 26 years after the fall of communism, it's hard to believe that there was a communist regime like North Korea in the heart of Europe. I went there in 1987, it was a very cheap politically subsidized youth trip by the international friendship association Sweden-DDR.
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Old August 25th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #1180
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admittedly the extremely strict enforcement of the DDR Tempo 100 and the commonly unrestricted limits of the BRD were a clear and tangible aspect of freedom. Mind you, taking a Trabant over 100 takes patience, skill and borderline insanity. Notice how the VoPo in the pictures are equipped with high-performance imported police pursuit vehicles - Polski Fiat
Back then, there were other countries that limited personal freedom even more! For example, the United States with their 55mi\h (88km\h) policy.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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