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Old January 8th, 2016, 09:09 PM   #1221
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
Hmm, this picture confuses me.



I thought West Germany didn't recognise the Inner-German border as such? So why is it mentioned as "Grenzuebergang"?
West Germany recognized East Germany as a sovereign country in 1972, as part of the Ostpolitik policy (normalization of relationship with DDR), led by chancellor Willy Brandt.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 02:55 AM   #1222
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That's not quite right. The BRD was just partially recognizing the DDR in 1972. It was not considered and recognized as full sovereign state like e.g. Poland or France. So there was no embassy of BRD in DDR just a so called "Ständige Vetretung" (permanent representation). And also the border was not recognized as real border like to e.g. Austria. There were officially no border crossings, just checkpoints ("Kontrollpunkt").

So the sign was choosen just to be handy. The official name was "Kontrollpunkt Helmstedt" (checkpoint Helmstedt), not "Grenzübergang Helmstedt" (border crossing Helmstedt). Silly as many other things back then...
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Old January 9th, 2016, 01:09 PM   #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
That's not quite right. The BRD was just partially recognizing the DDR in 1972. It was not considered and recognized as full sovereign state like e.g. Poland or France. So there was no embassy of BRD in DDR just a so called "Ständige Vetretung" (permanent representation). And also the border was not recognized as real border like to e.g. Austria. There were officially no border crossings, just checkpoints ("Kontrollpunkt").

So the sign was choosen just to be handy. The official name was "Kontrollpunkt Helmstedt" (checkpoint Helmstedt), not "Grenzübergang Helmstedt" (border crossing Helmstedt). Silly as many other things back then...
Similar situation with Serbia and Kosovo today.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 01:48 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by Alex_ZR View Post
Similar situation with Serbia and Kosovo today.
Signs still say "Kosovo provincial boundary" or something like that?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 03:18 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Signs still say "Kosovo provincial boundary" or something like that?
Serbian government and media call it "administrative line" which has "administrative crossings". There are no flags of any side at those crossings.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 08:13 PM   #1226
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Even more ridiculous on the Slovenian-Croatian border close to the sea (Sečovlje) where the Slovenian government calls it "checkpoint Sečovlje" (kontrolna točka instead of mejni prehod) just because the Slovenian border checkpoint doesn't lie on the disputed land. But the disputed land is so small that it doesn't really matter where the border checkpoint lies (it's not like it lies 100 km from the border).
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Old January 9th, 2016, 09:16 PM   #1227
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Even more ridiculous on the Slovenian-Croatian border close to the sea (Sečovlje) where the Slovenian government calls it "checkpoint Sečovlje" (kontrolna točka instead of mejni prehod) just because the Slovenian border checkpoint doesn't lie on the disputed land. But the disputed land is so small that it doesn't really matter where the border checkpoint lies (it's not like it lies 100 km from the border).
In most border crossings in the world the booths don't stand exactly on the border line, but they're border crossings anyway.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2016, 09:42 PM   #1228
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Exactly.
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Old January 12th, 2016, 02:41 PM   #1229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In most border crossings in the world the booths don't stand exactly on the border line, but they're border crossings anyway.
Especially in the UK and France. The French police have their booths in Dover and the British have their facilities in Calais and Dunkerque.
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Old January 16th, 2016, 03:41 PM   #1230
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A motorway in Sweden in 1967. Notice the lefthand traffic.


Lefthand traffic at dawn. Most drivers didnt turn on the headlights until it was pitch black.
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Old January 16th, 2016, 10:01 PM   #1231
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But all vehicles were LHD anyway?
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Old January 16th, 2016, 10:07 PM   #1232
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I believe that most were, yes. I wonder why, there are smaller RHD markets in Europe.
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Old January 16th, 2016, 11:47 PM   #1233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
But all vehicles were LHD anyway?
The decision to switch the side was made in 1955, thus 12 years in advance. Since that, sales of new RHD cars was forbidden.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 12:08 AM   #1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The decision to switch the side was made in 1955, thus 12 years in advance. Since that, sales of new RHD cars was forbidden.
No, there was a referendum in 1955 in which ~80 % voted to keep left traffic. In 1963 the parliament decided to go through with a change to right traffic despite this. Almost all vehicles were already LHD in 1955, so most people needed only to change their asymmetrical headlights. Buses needed to be rebuilt though.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 12:47 AM   #1235
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Originally Posted by riiga View Post
No, there was a referendum in 1955 in which ~80 % voted to keep left traffic. In 1963 the parliament decided to go through with a change to right traffic despite this. Almost all vehicles were already LHD in 1955, so most people needed only to change their asymmetrical headlights. Buses needed to be rebuilt though.
Interesting. I am quite sure I have read that the right-hand-drive cars were banned for a long time before 1967. But I have no hard evidence nor any reference available now.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #1236
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A man riding a bike on A2 motorway in Netherlands, somewhere between Maastricht and Eijsden, back in 1991:



Short story: a group of few Romanians got a scolarship at the University in Maastricht in 1991. When they arrived there, it was a completely new world compared to the communist-Romania that they were used with. They have never seen a motorway before, so they thought that the hard shoulder of the motorway is actually a bike lane (as there were a lot of bike lanes in Maastricht). Later on, Police escorted them out of the motorway. The complete story is here (only in Romanian).
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Old January 17th, 2016, 11:08 AM   #1237
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It still happens sporadically.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 11:28 AM   #1238
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And still Romanians?
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Old January 17th, 2016, 11:34 AM   #1239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
No, there was a referendum in 1955 in which ~80 % voted to keep left traffic. In 1963 the parliament decided to go through with a change to right traffic despite this. Almost all vehicles were already LHD in 1955, so most people needed only to change their asymmetrical headlights. Buses needed to be rebuilt though.
I noticed that post vans in some remotely located areas in Sweden are RHD, as it is easier to drop a letter with no need to jump out of the vehicle.
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Old January 17th, 2016, 11:52 AM   #1240
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I've seen some post vans also in USA which were RHD, for the same reason.

In Romania I've seen street cleaning vehicles with RHD, as they would better see the edge of the road to clean it.
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