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Old June 23rd, 2016, 12:45 AM   #1421
Corvinus
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In 1971, the two German states signed a milestone agreement on transit traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. Its aim was to simplify procedures and border controls for common travelers as far as possible. West Germany paid a yearly "flat rate" amount to the GDR for the infrastructure provided, and in exchange the GDR levied no individual road tolls, didn't carry out a detailed inspection of vehicles at the border (unless there was a clear reason for suspicions) and refrained from exercise of much of its sovereignty rights (e.g. arrests) on the transit roads.

Transit travelers, on the other hand, were strictly banned from leaving the transit roads (e.g. for excursions or visits in the GDR). Only short stops at petrol stations or rest areas were permitted. No contacts with GDR citizens were allowed. Stasi were constantly operating civilian surveillance vehicles on the transit roads, including vehicles with West German registration.

GDR authorities could estimate the transit time of a traveler with the aid of the visa form that was handed to the traveler when entering and collected when leaving GDR territory. Longer breaks, e.g. at rest areas, would have to be proven by receipts. This was also the case for "higher force" (accident, sickness, crime). The available roadside assistance in the GDR was weak, however. In 1988, an agreement between Verkehrskombinat Potsdam and West German ADAC was reached, with ADAC now providing assistance and also supply vehicles for the GDR roadside assistance.

Not making the transit in time without a proven reason would easily result in fines (collected in West German marks) which started already at very light "offenses" like the prohibited noon siesta.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 01:25 AM   #1422
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So, between 1961 (when the wall was built), and 1971 (whe the transit agreement came into force), West Berlin was accessible only by plane? Or maybe also trains?

There was another strange border situation on the inner German border. A line of West Berlin metro crossed a part of East Berlin, but without stops on the GDR section. Some East Germans managed to enter the tunnel via a ventilation tube, stop a West German train and escape to the West.

Also, some Austrian trains transited via Sopron, Hungary, during the Cold War, without stopping on Hungarian soil.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 03:06 PM   #1423
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Intertank

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No contacts with GDR citizens were allowed. Stasi were constantly operating civilian surveillance vehicles on the transit roads, including vehicles with West German registration.
I presume that the GDR-motorists were allowed to stop at the transit rest areas, but they couldnt buy anything there or fill up their cars because those service stations only accepted western hard currency.

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Old June 24th, 2016, 01:54 AM   #1424
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what was the relative price of gasoline in an Intertank vs a DDR "proletariat" tankstelle vs a typical BRD tankstelle?
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Old June 24th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #1425
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what was the relative price of gasoline in an Intertank vs a DDR "proletariat" tankstelle vs a typical BRD tankstelle?
Intertank and Intershop meant western prices. I'm not sure if westerners could fill up their cars at a "proletäriat"-tankstelle, even if they had a visa and were allowed to drive off the transit-routes. Also GDR-cars drove on poor 88 octane petrol and maybe they only offered 95 octane at the Intertank-service station, but you could adjust the ignition to use the GDR-petrol.

When I was a tourist there in 1987, prices were only slightly lower when you exchanged your western currency through the offical exchange points.

But most tourists changed their westgerman marks and USD on the black market and lived like kings. You only had to go to a restaurant, sit down at a table, the waiter showed up and he noticed that you were a forreigner so he would offer you 3-4 times the money for exchanging his GDR-marks.


Volga taxi at an intertank petrolstation. East-Berlin 1973
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Old June 24th, 2016, 08:43 PM   #1426
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Intertank and Intershop meant western prices. I'm not sure if westerners could fill up their cars at a "proletäriat"-tankstelle, even if they had a visa and were allowed to drive off the transit-routes.
I remember in Czechoslovakia you needed to bring vouchers (purchased beforehand in your home country) to buy gasoline, but that was the case for Hungary, a Socialist "brother" country. At least, the vouchers could be obtained against your own non-convertible currency. I don't know how Westerners were regulated (and how things were going IRL, which was often enough different from the regulations).

In the 1908s, there was once a crisis with GDR tourists heading to and from Bulgaria when Romania announced GDR citizens are required to pay in hard currency for gasoline.
There were GDR holidaymakers stranded in Hungary, not venturing the transit through Romania without possession of Western currency, or denied entry by the border guards who checked the quantity of gasoline of entering vehicles. Others topped up their cars to the max before entering Romania and took some extra litres in beverage bottles. Cars back then were not as economical as today, a Lada easily consumed 9-10l per 100 km. Socialist cars' fuel tanks were not oversized either.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 02:24 AM   #1427
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Belgrade 1961

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Old July 1st, 2016, 03:02 PM   #1428
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1968 Osnabruck gets connected to the Autobahn

On November 14, 1968 the german transport-minister cut the white ribbon so the traffic could enter the new section of the A1 at Osnabruck. This was another new motorway on the so called Hansalinie - the motorway connecting northern Germany & Scandinavia with western europe.

The new motorway between Bremen-Ost and Kamen was 215 kilometers long and it had costed a billion Mark

The construction also included 70 rest areas and 288 bridges.





Interesting that Germany had 4000km of motorways in 1968.



Sweden has 2050km of motorways today in 2016.
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Old July 3rd, 2016, 05:48 AM   #1429
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Schimatari toll station, circa 1977.

When the road was converted into a motorway, the station looked like this:


You can see where it used to be here. It was demolished in summer 2014.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:34 PM   #1430
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In Italy, the provincial road Milan–Giussano ("Nuova Valassina") was built in the 50s and inspired by the american parkways with grade intersections.

In 1958 it looked like that, note the cycle and pedestrian path on the right:



In the 1990s the road was rebuilt as a freeway and since then is part of the state road nr. 36 Milan–Lecco. The same place today:

http://www.google.it/maps/@45.6130094,9.2239359,3a,75y,5h,81.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6620MNw27RfQ_gWcmKdxAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:06 AM   #1431
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In Bergamo, the beginning of the new motorway to Milan, in 1927:



In 1960, the same motorway being rebuilt from a single carriageway to a double one:

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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:06 AM   #1432
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Thanks, very interesting.

I had no idea that SS36 was that old, I though it was built around the 1970s.
This may even be the first 2x2 freeway in Italy, as the first official motorway opened in late 1958 (A1 Milan-Parma) and all "autostrade" built before that date were just 1+1 roads, before they were duplicated in the early 1960s.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #1433
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The Milan–Lecco was built in the 1950s from Milan to Giussano, and later (1970s?) from Giussano to Lecco.

But until the reconstruction works in the 1990s it wasn't a freeway: it had many at-grade intersections, even with traffic light.

It was the first italian road with double carriageway, but not the first freeway.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:15 AM   #1434
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There were some traffic lights on SS36 in Monza until 2013 (when an 1.8km tunnel was built and the old road downgraded to an urban boulevard).
Also Lecco is crossed with two long tunnels, one of them beneath the city centre.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:58 AM   #1435
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Opening of the Bologna–Florence motorway, 3rd December 1960:

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Old July 7th, 2016, 01:26 AM   #1436
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Now, there are two variants of A1 b/n those cities: Variante di Valico (newer I suppose) and Autostrada del Sol (old one) from above picture I guess?

Last edited by SRC_100; July 7th, 2016 at 02:00 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 01:30 AM   #1437
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"Variante del sol"?? What should it mean?

Actually we have the historical route, opened in 1960, and the "variante di valico" opened in 2015. It seems that they are going to be called "panoramic" (panoramica, the old one) and "direct route" (direttissima, the new one).
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Old July 7th, 2016, 02:05 AM   #1438
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Right, I made mistake with the name of old path
Btw, the names I took from GM description

So, both motorways b/n Bologna and Firenze are going to be parallel in use all the time? What`s about their numbering? Both will be marked as A1 all the time?
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Old July 7th, 2016, 02:11 AM   #1439
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I'm not sure, but one of them should be "A1 var" (probably the new one).
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Old July 7th, 2016, 04:04 AM   #1440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post


Interesting that Germany had 4000km of motorways in 1968.


In 1940 they had over 3000km!
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