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Old January 23rd, 2017, 10:02 PM   #1621
volodaaaa
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
In Poland, after the WW2, the names of some formerly German towns were sometimes changed to newly invented ones. But there is very few of them.

In most cases the old Polish names were simply restored (they often had two names: a German one and a Polish one, sometimes similar in their meaning or how they sound, sometimes different) or the German names were polonized.

We have a touristic mountain town called Karpacz (the German name is Krummhübel - Leaning Mountain in old German; the Polish name was invented by one of the dwellers who was from the Carpathians and named it by that mountain range - Karpacz is in the Sudetes). One of its districts - formerly Brückenberg (Bridge Mountain in modern German) was named Bierutowice by the Polish president from that time. As he was a communist and what he was mainly doing was following Stalin's orders, this name should have already been changed already a long time ago. And there exists a new name, used by many - Karpacz Górny, the Upper Karpacz. But it's still unofficial. The local authorities are so inefficient with this that the name change takes so much time.

On the other hand, the city of Stargard, formerly Stargard Szczeciński, managed to change its name a year ago without any problems (although the change was initiated in 1999 and it was introduced with the beginning of 2015 - so it took much time anyway). They didn't want to be named by a near bigger city (Szczecin, Stettin in German), they preferred to be just Stargard and not Stargard Szczeciński.

Another interesting case is the city of Katowice, the name of which was Stalinogród between 1953 and 1956. Introduced after the death of Stalin, but quickly restored back to Katowice.

Or the city of Kaliningrad in Russia, which used to be German (Teutonic or Prussian) and Polish in different periods in the past. In German it was called Königsberg, in Polish Królewiec, both names meaning basically the same (King's Town). Russians named it by a soviet politician Mikhail Kalinin - and it is so until now.

But the Germans occupying Poland during the WW2 (I suppose it was the same in other countries) were most crazy with that. In big cities, they changed all the street names to their owns, meaning totally different things than the Polish ones. And also changed some city names (although often they just adjusted them to the German pronunciation) - Łódź became Litzmanstadt, by Karl Litzmann, a nazi politician.
Apparently, Germans thought about Poland as German territory. Nothing such happened here. The craziest renaming occurred during the Soviet period. A lot of streets were renamed mostly after Communist leaders from Eastern European Countries. Cities and municipalities were renamed too, especially those with name referring to some famous enterprisers, minorities or sacral meaning (e.g we had the city called Saint Martin that was renamed to Martin, or mostly, the Saint adjective was replaced by the name of the region - The city of Saint George was renamed to George by Bratislava). Loads of them were replaced back in 1990, but significant names has been retained (like Martin :-) )

Sometimes it went too far and led only to confusion - there was a Peace Plaza (literal translation) in Bratislava (I know that communism was always referring to peace and democracy ha - ha, but I see nothing wrong with that name) renamed in 1990 after 19th century Slovak revivalist (everyone called the plaza by the old name though). But there was also American Plaza during communist times - even adjacent to Soviet Plaza (red pin in the centre of the map).
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Last edited by volodaaaa; January 23rd, 2017 at 10:08 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 11:19 PM   #1622
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During Italian fascism all toponyms that had German (South Tyrol), French (Aosta Valley and parts of Piedmont) or Slavic (Venezia Giulia) origin were forcibly italianized, also by imposing names that were invented by some creative fascist personality and never had any historical background.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 01:51 AM   #1623
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During Italian fascism all toponyms that had German (South Tyrol), French (Aosta Valley and parts of Piedmont) or Slavic (Venezia Giulia) origin were forcibly italianized, also by imposing names that were invented by some creative fascist personality and never had any historical background.
The same happened on the Finnish areas annexed by the Soviet Union, apart from those that later came to be parts of the Republic of Karelia.

Even those are often wrongfully latinized, for example Lahdenpohja became Лахденпохья which is nowadays latinized as Lakhdenpokhya.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 11:11 AM   #1624
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The city of Saint George was renamed to George by Bratislava.

there was a Peace Plaza (literal translation) in Bratislava
Mal si na mysli Svätý Jur a Námestie Mieru, dnes Hodžovo námestie?
(Did you ment Svaty Jur, ex Jur pri Bratislave and Namestie Mieru, today Hodžovo namestie)?
Please do not translate names of towns, rivers, streets,..
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Old January 24th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #1625
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Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
The same happened on the Finnish areas annexed by the Soviet Union, apart from those that later came to be parts of the Republic of Karelia.

Even those are often wrongfully latinized, for example Lahdenpohja became Лахденпохья which is nowadays latinized as Lakhdenpokhya.
In this context, the boundary between the West Europe and Byzantine lies on the Russian/Finnish border.

Many of the streets in the city of Helsinki were originally named according to the members of the Russian royal family. After Finland gained its independence, those names remained as such. There is no heritage to change all the names if a new ruler comes.

Russia ruled Finland in 1809-1917. In those times, quite few were changes. Even the sea fortress of Helsinki was still Sveaborg, "Sweden Castle".

A notable exception is the town of Vaasa, which was Nikolainkaupunki ("Nikolai's Town) in 1855-1917. But that change did not originated from Russia but Finland: Vaasa burned down in 1852 and Czar Nikolai I donated a big sum of money for rebuilding the town to a new better place. The local governor was the one to propose changing the name to thank the czar. Nikolai I himself saw the proposal a dirty adulation, and the change took place only after his death.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #1626
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Originally Posted by bratislav View Post
Mal si na mysli Svätý Jur a Námestie Mieru, dnes Hodžovo námestie?
(Did you ment Svaty Jur, ex Jur pri Bratislave and Namestie Mieru, today Hodžovo namestie)?
Please do not translate names of towns, rivers, streets,..
The information value of my post would have been close to zero if I had not used such though incorrect but literal translations.
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Old January 25th, 2017, 12:41 AM   #1627
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Expressway near Trieste in the 1950s.
In the late 1940s Anglo-Americans completed a 1+1 expressway between Sistiana and Trieste, to ensure a better connection between Trieste and Italy.

This expressway was numbered SS202 when Trieste became part of Italy again.
In the 1980s part of it was upgraded into RA13 motorway, to fulfill the Osimo Treaty between Italy and Yugoslavia (1975), that included, among other things, the construction of a motorway between Monfalcone and Ljubljana via the Fernetti crossing and a motorway between Trieste and Koper via Rabuiese crossing (they were completed in 1997 and 2008 respectively).
Part of the old Sistiana-Trieste expressway still survives as SP35 in its original shape (2 very wide lanes with shoulders, as it was planned to be used as airstrip in case of war).
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.69115...7i13312!8i6656
SS202 number is now used for the southern bypass of Trieste, a mostly elevated urban expressway opened in 1988.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 28th, 2017, 04:23 PM   #1628
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In Jacques Tati's Trafic (1971) there's quite a lot of period road footage. The action takes place in France, Belgium and The Netherlands. Here are some screenshots. I couldn't find the exact locations though, but I guess the first ones are somewhere near Paris and the last one is a Dutch motorway. Note that France did also use yellow road markings (Spain did it too).















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Old January 28th, 2017, 08:27 PM   #1629
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the presence of the Siata and the ridiculous crash scene are best
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Old January 28th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #1630
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An interesting photo of #Belgrade from the 1930s which shows one of the first gas stations in the city. The owner of the station is remembered only by his nickname Šarac. Anyway, according to the Belgrade Automobile Museum, the first car in the streets of Belgrade appeared in 1903.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 10:55 AM   #1631
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Over the centuries neighborhoods in Rijeka (Fiume) carried the names in Italian, although the population of the Rijeka (Fiume) before fascism in the 1920s and communism after WW2 had approximately equal share of Croatians and Italians.
Totalitarian regimes for the first time in the history of this city changed the number first of Croatian and two decades later of Italian component of the population.
After WW2 Croatian version of toponyms entered in use:
Corso - Korzo
Scoglietto - Skoljic
Braida - Brajda
Belvedere - Belveder
Cosala - Kozala
Scurigne - Skurinje
Cantrida - Kantrida
...

Some names have been translated:
Gelsi - Podmurvice

Some were changed without historical basis:
Montegrappa - Banderovo
San Nicolo '- Krnjevo

And ... in all these changes Fiumara, Bivio and Costabella are still Fiumara, Bivio and Costabella :-)
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Old February 4th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #1632
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the last one is a Dutch motorway
No, this is not in NL. NL never had dashed or yellow lines on motorways.
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Old February 4th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #1633
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Some Hungarian petrol stations from the 30'

Budapest, Damjanich street:


Budapest, Vörösmarty square:


Kecskemét, Main square:


Somewhere in Hungary:

source: fortepan.hu
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Old February 26th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #1634
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I did not know if it should go here, or to the fuel prices thread, but I put it here since it's about history, and gas stations are still road infrastructure.

A Polish news report from November 1989 - the first material shows a gas station in Orla street in Warsaw:



At 11:00 that day, 99 cars were waiting in a queue for fuel. The waiting time was about 3 hours.

The reasons for such queues were planned price increases announced 3 days before and the general shortage of fuels on the Polish market. Daily 3500 tons of fuels were delivered, although 12,000 tons were needed. Those 3500 tons were 1000 tons less than a year before (even though the number of cars was increasing).

The explanation for those shortages were lack of money in foreign currencies for the import and a recent breakdown in the refinery in Płock.

I have no idea how it worked with those shortages and how it caused queues. I guess, some stations were simply running out of fuel, causing queues at those which had fuel. I also assume that a means of fuel rationing had to be introduced (so that a car owner could buy only a limited amount of it), although I don't really see how it could cause the queues.

Probably someone living in those times can explain it better.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #1635
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I always mention those situations when I talk to someone who reminisces of PRL-era, "you had to send your wife to wait in line all day to get a kielbasa while you sat in line to tank your Maluch, if you were lucky!"

I get annoyed if there is even no free pump for me immediately when I arrive, I can't even imagine waiting hours...
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Old February 26th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #1636
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
I did not know if it should go here, or to the fuel prices thread, but I put it here since it's about history, and gas stations are still road infrastructure.

[... stuff deleted...]

The explanation for those shortages were lack of money in foreign currencies for the import and a recent breakdown in the refinery in Płock.

I have no idea how it worked with those shortages and how it caused queues. I guess, some stations were simply running out of fuel, causing queues at those which had fuel. I also assume that a means of fuel rationing had to be introduced (so that a car owner could buy only a limited amount of it), although I don't really see how it could cause the queues.

Probably someone living in those times can explain it better.
This is a fairly complex issue. I will try and do my best to shed some light on it.

Fuel shortage was pretty common in the communist era in Eastern Europe. This was caused for the most part by lower than agreed upon levels of crude oil shipment by the USSR, which in turn was either due to shortcomings in infrastructure or triggered by the need of the USSR to raise hard currency for themselves.

This was either regulated by limiting the amount of fuel per one fill or a coupon system, so that you had only a certain amount of fuel per vehicle per time period.

The first method quickly caused long queues since drivers would fill the allowed quota only to drive to the next filling station and stand in line for another. A waiting time for 3 hrs for ~100 cars in line would speak for normal procedures at the station if an average time for a fill of ~5 min is considered.

Now, you ask why a coupon system was not more widespread? Easy. This would lead (and reality showed it did) to a black market, with hyped prices for fuel on coupons. In most cases the "owner" of a coupon would ask for hard currency, thereby devaluating the own local currency and creating a parallel economy. This was of course, something the communist leaders would not be able to accept, since it would mean open confession that the socialist way of an economy had failed.

Regulating the distribution of any trade good was not an option for ideological reasons, obviously.

Most likely, this will not have explained all the questions that may arise. I hope to have shed some light nonetheless.

Best

Jochen Frenck
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Old February 26th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #1637
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Most people weren't using cars in those times. Even if someone had a car (and not many people did), it wasn't rather used for commuting to work. Only for exceptional situations and for holidays. Most people were using public transport, which was developed much better than it is now. Each village had a bus (if not train) connection - although those buses and trains were often overcrowded.

For sure, there were periods when the access to fuel was rationed, you were getting tickets at work allowing to buy only a specified amount of fuel. Although I have no idea, how big those rations were, how much you could drive, for example, in a day (if you drove every day) for them.

And, from what I know, it was somehow easier if you had a diesel car - since diesel fuel was also used by buses, trucks and tractors. But for details, I think, we must know for someone who lived in Poland (or another eastern country) in those times and remembers that.

----

Thanks, Jochen - I wrote this post before I read yours.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:34 PM   #1638
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Some historic pictures from the Netherlands, which I posted on Wegenforum.nl:

E8 (A28/N221) near Amersfoort:










N96 (A15) near Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht:











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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:38 PM   #1639
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Also some pictures near Oudenrijn interchange somewhere between 1969-1972

E9 (A2/E35) heading South:







E9 (A2/E25) heading north:



E8/E36 (A12/E25/E30) heading east:





E8/E36 (A12/E30/E35) heading west:







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Old February 28th, 2017, 11:39 PM   #1640
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Ah, SSC doesn't resize them. Pity.
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