daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 4th, 2017, 06:43 PM   #1741
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 817
Likes (Received): 155

Some historic pictures from mountain passes in Norway.


Rv 50 Kongsvoll (Dovrefjell), 1930


Saltfjellet in Nordland 1937, rv 50 again (the E6 of those days)


Sognefjellet, 1938,shortly after the opening. The width was 3 to 6 m back then...


Geiranger, 1955, shortly after the opening.

On the Rv 50 from Trondheim to northern Norway, boat was the only option prior to some of the mountain passes of today.

Rv 50 ferry Hemnesberget - Elsfjord, Northern Norway, from 1930. That was prior to any road across Korgfjellet, which was opened in 1946. It was mainly constructed during the war, though, at the cost of the life of 618 Youguslavian POWs. Although not shown, this ferry was able to carry cars.
__________________

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; November 4th, 2017 at 07:53 PM.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 4th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #1742
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 817
Likes (Received): 155

Rv 50 (current E6) across Heimdalsmyra and its surroundings south of Trondheim, Norway, have changed considerably the last 50 years

1958




Today


1964 (Tonstad intersection /Rv 50->E6 in the background)


Today (correction: this is not the exact same road, but E6 itself)
__________________

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; November 5th, 2017 at 06:42 PM.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2017, 09:47 PM   #1743
Junkie
Supervisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Skopje
Posts: 1,901
Likes (Received): 793

Motorway E-75 between SRB and MK in SFRY

__________________
Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS

SRC_100, Luki_SL, Autobahn-mann liked this post
Junkie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2017, 10:38 PM   #1744
volodaaaa
Registered User
 
volodaaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 3,231
Likes (Received): 1750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Motorway E-75 between SRB and MK in SFRY

where exactly?
__________________
Been/drove my car in: SK, CZ, D, A, H, PL, I, F, E, RSM, CH, FL, SLO, HR, SRB, BiH, MK, GR, BG, RO

volodaaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2017, 10:51 PM   #1745
Junkie
Supervisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Skopje
Posts: 1,901
Likes (Received): 793


This is on the border station. You can see the sign on the left every socialist republic had sign prior to the territory.
__________________
Brexit is a disaster for Europe because of the English language itself!

The Western Balkans is already in Europe i.e., it is in the heart of Europe and all of these nations want and deserve to have the same chance,
the same security and the same rights as all other citizens of the European family, right on their own continent."

BEEN IN:
MK A AL B BiH BG HR CZ EST F FIN D GR H I LT MNE NL SRB SK SLO E TR PL RKS

SRC_100 liked this post
Junkie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 02:31 AM   #1746
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Rv 50 (current E6) across Heimdalsmyra and its surroundings south of Trondheim, Norway, have changed considerably the last 50 years


1964
It's incredible how undeveloped was Norway back then.
This looks like a present-day photo from some remote area in Russian Far East!
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 03:39 AM   #1747
SRC_100
Registered User
 
SRC_100's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,084
Likes (Received): 3275


I think in those days there was mostly like that around the Europe. Remember this road wasn`t one of most important then.
__________________

Kpc21 liked this post
SRC_100 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 10:18 AM   #1748
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post

This is on the border station. You can see the sign on the left every socialist republic had sign prior to the territory.
You mean at Gevgelija, Greek border? There was no motorway on SRB/MK border or any other republic border in SFRY times.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 12:05 PM   #1749
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,803
Likes (Received): 617

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRC_100 View Post

I think in those days there was mostly like that around the Europe. Remember this road wasn`t one of most important then.
The root cause for such a condition is the frost heave, a natural phenomena. It is strong in the arctic areas. During the winter time, the frost blocks the water traversing the road structure. The drainage does not work, and the structure gets soft during the spring when the ice and frost smelts. The road can carry a light load, but even one heavy vehicle may spoil it.


Somewhere in Finland

In 1950's and 1960's the number of cars rocketed in most countries, and the old previously decent network was not able to carry the suddenly increased load. The only cure is to rebuild the road, and that really does not take place overnight. For example, Finland rebuilt virtually the whole network within three decades.

Thus, having a historical photo about a road in such a condition does not tell anything about the general standard of living in that country.

A road needed to regularly carry heavy loads is substantially more expensive to build in the North than in the South. That is why there are tens of thousands of such lightweight roads on the lower network only in Finland. No reason to invest millions of euros to roads having AADT of less than a few hundred vehicles. Protecting them is easy by takig precautions: Do not overload them during the weeks of spring. If the road is endangered, a temporary weight limit is put in place, but the necessary transportation is allowed. The heaviest vehicles of the lowest network are the timber-collecting trucks. Such a transport peaks in the winter (because roads are strenghtened by ice), and it is put in the hold in the spring.


Somewhere in Sweden
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 01:38 PM   #1750
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6778

See some photos of buses in Poland before the WW2: https://autokult.pl/3961,tak-sie-jez...zed-wojna-cz-3

Cars: https://autokult.pl/3466,tak-sie-kie...jenne-cz-2,all

On some photos you can see the condition of some inter-city roads. This Norwegian one is in a good state compared to them.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #1751
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRC_100 View Post

I think in those days there was mostly like that around the Europe. Remember this road wasn`t one of most important then.
Like it was written before, weather contitions in the North doesn't allow easy road contruction and maintenance, compared to regions with milder climate.
Moreover, historically, northern countries had always relied prevalently on boat transport (and sleds in winter), as most settlements are on the coast or along waterways. Overland transport was probably not a big thing there like it was in southern or central Europe (where the road network was developed a lot since Roman era).
It's not that it was mostly like that around Europe, though. E6 is one of the most important roads in Norway. I doubt you'll find muddy national roads in Italy, France or Germany in 1964 (in the 1920s, maybe). But it was because building good roads in the Norh was extremely challenging for the era, not because northern countries had poor organization.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #1752
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

The Trans-Canada Highway had unpaved sections until the 1960s.

In Western Canada, many rural highways, now part of the primary highway system, were unpaved until the 1960s, 1970s and even 1980s. It's kind of unbelievable that some provinces in Western Canada had almost no paved roads at all before the late 1930s.

In countries like France, Italy, Germany, etc. there were many paved roads by the mid-1800s, not to mention historic roman roads.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 04:18 PM   #1753
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,803
Likes (Received): 617

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Trans-Canada Highway had unpaved sections until the 1960s.

In Western Canada, many rural highways, now part of the primary highway system, were unpaved until the 1960s, 1970s and even 1980s. It's kind of unbelievable that some provinces in Western Canada had almost no paved roads at all before the late 1930s.

In countries like France, Italy, Germany, etc. there were many paved roads by the mid-1800s, not to mention historic roman roads.
Your mileage varies.

The need for a pavement and the population density have a substantial correlation. 1000 horses make more harm to the upper layers of the road than 10 horses. It is evident that the Roman roads needed to be paved. Even the generals of ancient armies knew what an obstacle mud is when moving the troops.



The situation in Finland was quite similar to Canada. The main streets in the cities were paved by stones. First rural roads were paved in the early 1930s, and the last main roads in the 1970s.

Good gravel roads with side ditches are almost as usable as paved ones. And in the winter conditions, there is virtually no difference. The other way round, there is no sense to pave the an arctic road with a lightweight structure: The pavement will be gone in two years.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 05:43 PM   #1754
ElviS77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 564
Likes (Received): 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54°26′S 3°24′E View Post
Rv
1964
Is this really the then rv50 at Heimdalsmyra or a different road in the area? The road was opened in 1958, I believe, and AFAIK, it was built as a fairly modern, paved 2-lane highway, replacing a narrow and curvy section...
ElviS77 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #1755
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Good gravel roads with side ditches are almost as usable as paved ones. And in the winter conditions, there is virtually no difference. The other way round, there is no sense to pave the an arctic road with a lightweight structure: The pavement will be gone in two years.
Gravel roads with drainage ditches can't be easily driven even with rain. They are more problematic in drought periods, as they get very dusty, but it's probably not an important issue in northern countries as they usually get enough rain also in summer.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #1756
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6778

From what I know, they have many well-maintained such gravel roads in Lithuania.

This one from Latvia:



Unfortunately, the gravel roads in Poland are never well-maintained, so it's good that we have many paved ones.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #1757
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 817
Likes (Received): 155

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
Is this really the then rv50 at Heimdalsmyra or a different road in the area? The road was opened in 1958, I believe, and AFAIK, it was built as a fairly modern, paved 2-lane highway, replacing a narrow and curvy section...
I am sorry guys, but I was a bit inaccurate in my captions. The picture with the lady pushing the car driven by the man with a hat ("hattkaill") was from the Tonstad intersection, which is an important interchange on the E6 today for the southern and western suburbs of Trondheim. The car was however stuck on the road crossing Rv 50, and the intersection was far less important back then. As a consolation, I include another picture from the area from 1964, probably Rv 50. Although it is a bit hard to see, the road actually appears paved. It took decades before all national roads in Norway was paved, though. In the 1950s, 92% of public roads were still gravel. There are still gravel residential streets in many Norwegian cities, as well as local roads at the countryside, of course.

Last edited by 54°26′S 3°24′E; November 6th, 2017 at 12:43 AM.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #1758
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 817
Likes (Received): 155

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Gravel roads with drainage ditches can't be easily driven even with rain. They are more problematic in drought periods, as they get very dusty, but it's probably not an important issue in northern countries as they usually get enough rain also in summer.
Believe it or not, dust can be a problem in the Nordics too, but the maintained gravel roads are generally salted during spring to bind most of the finer particles by maintaining a more stable humidity content of the surface layer.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2017, 09:02 PM   #1759
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,803
Likes (Received): 617

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Gravel roads with drainage ditches can't be easily driven even with rain. They are more problematic in drought periods, as they get very dusty, but it's probably not an important issue in northern countries as they usually get enough rain also in summer.
The quality depends on whether the local road agency has skills enough to build such roads or not.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2017, 12:27 AM   #1760
54°26′S 3°24′E
Registered User
 
54°26′S 3°24′E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 817
Likes (Received): 155

Yes, I agree, and I have never seen a gravel road in the Nordics turn to a potato field from rain alone, even tractor roads generally have a minimum amount of drainage. In the spring, however, I have encountered the situation pictured above many times, in particular in minor mountain roads.
54°26′S 3°24′E no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium