Indianapolis Development News

[hoosier]

Originally Posted by arenn

Move to the suburbs and your taxes go down while your school quality goes up.

Since the "suburbs" have a much wealthier population, the tax rate doesn't have to be as high to bring in the needed tax revenue.

And when those suburbs get enough people, taxes will have to go up to expand the infrastructure and build more schools.

[hoosier]

Originally Posted by speedblue47

Quite telling that you resort to ad hominem in the first line of your retort. Quite adult of you. Now, back to the relevant facts.

First, which alternative fuels would be speaking of? You mean the $40 billion that was poured into electrovoltaics over 25 years to attain an increase from 2% efficiency to 4% efficiency? Sounds like great investment. And it is wonderful that you call me out for "libertarian fantasies" when you admit yourself that it was government involvement in properly private concerns that led to fossil fuel dependence(an idea I would sort of agree with, especially as applies to the federal highway system, zoning, and FHA/HUD). But apparently now that the government in the past made a big boo-boo, the answer is to trust the government to not make another big boo-boo? That's malarkey. Let people put their own money where their mouth is and invest in the technologies that their own informed judgment says will succeed. Sorry you think that only a special class of human beings called "politicians" have the ability to make important decisions, and the rest of us are ignorant sheep. I'm sure your union boss loves you for it though.

As far as environmental damage from North Shore drilling, yeah it's rough, people would have to be able to live there. People would like, engage in commerce and trade and learn and prosper and all that. Dirty industry and capitalism. Letting all those Inuit people get out of their shitty standard of living and have a better life for their families - a style of life they consistently tell us they want. I mean, if they increase their incomes to something like the American average we can't make 9 o'clock news specials and internet documentaries about their plight and show how compassionate we are. You make me sick. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. Don't like what that means, shoot yourself - I kind of like life. I also think that people actually try to do good things with their life and want to make good decisions. And well, the law of nature is the strong survive and it seems that the human species is gonna keep surviving the only way it can with any success. And that is by using their brain and coming up with better and more efficient ways to accomplish their needs.

As far as the amount of oil it would provide, it came from a USGS survey, like I said in my post. It was quoted on Wikipedia, which linked to the report, which I then read. I wouldn't call the USGS pro-drilling. So actually, the estimate might be on the low end. As far as prices go, OPEC sets production rates for their member producers, not the price. The international oil market sets the price by supply and demand. If OPEC cuts supply, prices go up. If demand goes up, and supply stays the same, prices go up. Demand drops and/or production increases, price goes down. I actually think that this oil would not be put on the international market, and would be sold at some below-market price that would still provide a nice margin for the drillers. That's what the government does, and I'm not in support of it.

And if after the 1 whole degree of warming that occurred in the eighties and nineties has been wiped out on a global basis in the last ten years(with a relative decrease in solar activitiy during the decrease as opposed to the time of the increase), and you still believe in this wacko theory promulgated by unions, socialist, democrats, Marxists, centrist Republicans, anarchist and left-leaning libertarians and special interest groups, I don't think further discussion with you would be prudent. I would fall on deaf ears, or a dull mind. When your "experts" who have never studied climatology or meteorology decide whether it's "global warming" or "global cooling" let me know. I'll stick with the 250 real climatologists that are not working under research grants or hired by lobbying firms that recently said that there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change, there is no basis for a claim of a marked increase in either global mean temperature or high intensity storms. But whatever, stick with your proletarian fantasies, I'm done discussing this issue with you. Let's get back to talking about the topic of this forum, development in Indy. I'm sorry to the forum for allowing this to get off topic.

Some people are truly hopeless. So many lies, where to begin?

Mankind relies on healthy ecosystems to survive. We as a species are not immune from the environmental devastation we create. The fact that your posts indicate the opposite is truly disheartening.

[IndyYeah]

Originally Posted by NaptownBoy

Are the donuts good?

Try the bowties. There is a specific way to eat them with the coffee. I have it down to a science and everyone thinks I am nuts, until they try it. Take a bite, then chew a few times, take a sip of coffee and chew again. I came up with it in Belgium 20 years ago with their pastries. Sounds stupid, but those bowties are great that way. Ok, slow on here, but I wish that more d-d stores were around in Indy. They are all over Northern Indiana.

[arenn]

Yet another sign that Indy and Columbus are darn near identical. Early this week Indy based ATA abruptly ceases operations. Today, Columbus based Skybus does the same.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...M.html?sid=101

[thundermutt]

Does that bode ill for ISO? (grinning, ducking and running)

[billionbucks]

Originally Posted by speedblue47

Quite telling that you resort to ad hominem in the first line of your retort. Quite adult of you. Now, back to the relevant facts.

First, which alternative fuels would be speaking of? You mean the $40 billion that was poured into electrovoltaics over 25 years to attain an increase from 2% efficiency to 4% efficiency? Sounds like great investment. And it is wonderful that you call me out for "libertarian fantasies" when you admit yourself that it was government involvement in properly private concerns that led to fossil fuel dependence(an idea I would sort of agree with, especially as applies to the federal highway system, zoning, and FHA/HUD). But apparently now that the government in the past made a big boo-boo, the answer is to trust the government to not make another big boo-boo? That's malarkey. Let people put their own money where their mouth is and invest in the technologies that their own informed judgment says will succeed. Sorry you think that only a special class of human beings called "politicians" have the ability to make important decisions, and the rest of us are ignorant sheep. I'm sure your union boss loves you for it though.

As far as environmental damage from North Shore drilling, yeah it's rough, people would have to be able to live there. People would like, engage in commerce and trade and learn and prosper and all that. Dirty industry and capitalism. Letting all those Inuit people get out of their shitty standard of living and have a better life for their families - a style of life they consistently tell us they want. I mean, if they increase their incomes to something like the American average we can't make 9 o'clock news specials and internet documentaries about their plight and show how compassionate we are. You make me sick. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. Don't like what that means, shoot yourself - I kind of like life. I also think that people actually try to do good things with their life and want to make good decisions. And well, the law of nature is the strong survive and it seems that the human species is gonna keep surviving the only way it can with any success. And that is by using their brain and coming up with better and more efficient ways to accomplish their needs.

As far as the amount of oil it would provide, it came from a USGS survey, like I said in my post. It was quoted on Wikipedia, which linked to the report, which I then read. I wouldn't call the USGS pro-drilling. So actually, the estimate might be on the low end. As far as prices go, OPEC sets production rates for their member producers, not the price. The international oil market sets the price by supply and demand. If OPEC cuts supply, prices go up. If demand goes up, and supply stays the same, prices go up. Demand drops and/or production increases, price goes down. I actually think that this oil would not be put on the international market, and would be sold at some below-market price that would still provide a nice margin for the drillers. That's what the government does, and I'm not in support of it.

And if after the 1 whole degree of warming that occurred in the eighties and nineties has been wiped out on a global basis in the last ten years(with a relative decrease in solar activitiy during the decrease as opposed to the time of the increase), and you still believe in this wacko theory promulgated by unions, socialist, democrats, Marxists, centrist Republicans, anarchist and left-leaning libertarians and special interest groups, I don't think further discussion with you would be prudent. I would fall on deaf ears, or a dull mind. When your "experts" who have never studied climatology or meteorology decide whether it's "global warming" or "global cooling" let me know. I'll stick with the 250 real climatologists that are not working under research grants or hired by lobbying firms that recently said that there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change, there is no basis for a claim of a marked increase in either global mean temperature or high intensity storms. But whatever, stick with your proletarian fantasies, I'm done discussing this issue with you. Let's get back to talking about the topic of this forum, development in Indy. I'm sorry to the forum for allowing this to get off topic.

[arenn]

Here's a must-read report for anyone who is as big a data junkie as I am. A group called the Columbus Partnership did a benchmarking survey for that city, which compares the against 15 other cities, including Indy, Nashville, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc. It's nominally a Columbus report, but the same level of data is available for every city. There's plenty to digest here.

http://www.communityresearchpartners...hio%202008.pdf

Indianapolis was number #1 in their survey for affordable housing. However, it was dead last in number of LEED certified buildings.

[thundermutt]

Does anyone know if a building gets credit toward LEED certification if it is hooked to a city's central steam loop? Indianapolis' district steam system is supposedly second to only NYC's. It seems to me that a central steam plant could be considered more "green" than individual electric or gas systems per building.

(Yes, I do know that Indianapolis' central steam comes from coal.)

[SpiderMonkey]

Interesting article about hotel building during the current financial sitaution. A good reference about Indy and the JW.

From USA Today in the Indy Star. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1003/BUSINESS

[thundermutt]

"left-leaning libertarians"???

There is no such thing as a "left-leaning libertarian". Libertarians share the classical liberal advocacy of individual rights and the classical conservative preference for (extremely) limited government power, size, scope, and spending in keeping with the Tenth Amendment. That might make libertarians "dreamers" but it does not make them "left-leaning".

[CorrND]

WTHR is reporting the sale of Pan Am Plaza:

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8128745

They extended the lease for the skating academy through the summer -- if those people don't know where they're going to go yet, god help them -- but I wonder what they're planning to do with the Plaza long-term.

[billionbucks]

Pan-Am has a lot to offer. They mention keeping a piece to commemorate the 1987 games, which is good. Good opportunity to put in something great

[pig]

Originally Posted by thundermutt

"left-leaning libertarians"???

There is no such thing as a "left-leaning libertarian". Libertarians share the classical liberal advocacy of individual rights and the classical conservative preference for (extremely) limited government power, size, scope, and spending in keeping with the Tenth Amendment. That might make libertarians "dreamers" but it does not make them "left-leaning".

Originally Posted by speedblue47

...and you still believe in this wacko theory promulgated by unions, socialist, democrats, Marxists, centrist Republicans, anarchist and left-leaning libertarians and special interest groups...

"left leaning libertarians" tend to be agorists who favor the means of the radical left, though I'm not sure speedblue47 meant it to be that particular. He/she might have, but I'm not going to read into too deeply since I'm not sure if "anarchist" is meant to be grouped with libertarians or not. I also don't know if it's meant to be a slur (as it often is), but it seems that that sentence is meant to exclude and demean everyone who doesn't share speedblue47's worldview.

[Edit: There's a second interpretation of the term "left-leaning libertarian" floating around that holds that it's a dodge by run-of-the-mill libertarians trying to distance themselves from Bush Republicans. There might also be some flexibility on social programs, but it varies, of course, from person to person. It is in this context that I thought speedblue47 might have been using it as a slur.]

Originally Posted by speedblue47

Quite telling that you resort to ad hominem in the first line of your retort. Quite adult of you.

I didn't bother to read that post until just now, speedblue47, and there are a lot of reasons for that, but let me give you a some unsolicited advice: Never use the phrase "ad hominem". We are all smart enough to spot personal attacks ourselves, thanks. If you can't help yourself and you simply must expose the world to your vast erudition by using it anyway then I suggest not resorting to personal attacks in the very next sentence (fragment).

I'll stick with the 250 real climatologists that are not working under research grants or hired by lobbying firms that recently said that there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change, there is no basis for a claim of a marked increase in either global mean temperature or high intensity storms.

And while I enjoyed that because it made me think of this, if you're going to go through the effort to tell us how stupid we are for not agreeing with you and your "real climatologists" you might as well get the basic terms of the argument right. Though, to be fair, it is completely true that "there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change." Anthropogenic climate change is a whole 'nother onion, though. If you haven't had your fill of that argument I recommend this place.

Keep in mind that I didn't attack the substance of your argument, though it's probably clear that I disagree with you. I'm not interested in arguing about about the merits of scientific thought with someone who doesn't seem interested in the processes of scientific thought. I'm not sure why I took it this far. I must've been bored. Welcome to the internet...

Now isn't there some local planning issue to talk about where we can expose my ignorance?

[hoosier]

Pan Am Plaza as it currently stands is underused. I doubt we will see anything built on it for awhile until the economy improves.

[philaustin06]

I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?

[pig]

Originally Posted by philaustin06

I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?

I heard that rumor this weekend, but haven't seen it in the media. Don't know if there's anything to it and hope it's not true.

[SwimINindy]

If the above is true, Indianapolis' image could suffer severe ramifications in my opinion. That stadium is a reflection of this city's motivation and drive to succeed in a world that demands increasing amounts of efficiency, and productivity. The Luke could very well act as a catalyst to bigger and better things for the city as whole. Completing a task such as Lucas Oil stadium will not simply act as the future glorifying symbol of the indianapolis sports scene, but also will be an everlasting reflection of the efficiency of the city's productivity base, polotico - economic system, and the will power of the citizens.

If this stadium is indeed falling behind, and I were the director of this project, i would be threatining the workers with their jobs, and desperately searching the labor force for more effective hands to finish the job. I am certainly no expert on engineering and construction logistics, but it would appear that the most difficult aspects of the stadium have been completed. Are we - the citizens - really going allow the installation of seating, toilets, and the glutonous suites to slow us down ... i should think not! I would hope not!

I hope to never see a day when the Network News' Helicopter is flying over the stadium at the NFL opener this year, while John Madden criticsizes the inhability of this city to complete this stadium. Now I love indianapolis, ever since i moved here 2 and a half years ago. I dont think i would want to live anywhere else. This city stands firm as one of the great reflections of the american cultural identity which is actually the blending of identities .... now im on a rant and not talking about the stadium. But anyways, I just heard this news before i started writing this, and i as a citizen of indianapolis am appauled.

[ablerock]

Originally Posted by philaustin06

I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?

From April 8 indystar.com:

Event moves due to Lucas Oil Stadium work

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- The Drum Corps International World Championships is moving this summer's competition to Indiana University's Memorial Stadium because the new Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis won't be completed in time.

About 40 drum and bugle corps from around the world will participate in the three-day event, Aug. 7-9. The competition is expected to draw about 35,000 people. The competitors range in age from 14 to 22.

Drum Corps International is headquartered in Indianapolis and plans to hold future events at Lucas Oil Stadium.

The Indianapolis Colts are scheduled to open the new stadium with a preseason game against Buffalo on Aug. 24.

[arenn]

"You may dispense with the pleasantries, I'm here to put you back on schedule"

[ablerock]

from April 8 indystar.com

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2008804080331

Pan Am Plaza sale could spur development
Indiana Sports Corp. sells site to Kite and Coastal Partners
By Jeff Swiatek

The Indiana Sports Corp. has sold Pan Am Plaza and its ice rinks, ridding itself of a financial albatross and opening up one of Downtown's prime blocks for development.

The buyer of the public gathering spot for Indianapolis Colts pre-game fan rallies and other outdoor events is a joint venture of Kite Realty Group of Indianapolis and Coastal Partners, a California real estate investment company that already owns the Pan Am Plaza office building.
Advertisement

None of the parties in the deal, which was announced Monday, would reveal the sale price.

The new owners are looking at developing office and retail space on the site, but haven't decided on a design or timetable, said Brett Baumgarten, chief executive of Coastal.

"When all is said and done, this will be our trophy property," Baumgarten said. "We feel we have purchased one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent, development parcels in the city."

Baumgarten said the company is "absolutely not" putting a hotel on the site.

Coastal owns more than a dozen industrial, office and retail properties in Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Wisconsin and California.

It has owned the 12-story Pan Am office tower since 2003. Its agreement to sell the building last year to a Texas real estate investment company fell apart.

The plaza also was to be the site of a 44-story InterContinental Hotel, but that project fell through when the city backed another hotel project to link to the Indiana Convention Center.

When those deals didn't happen, Baumgarten said, Coastal's partners decided to take on Kite as a partner and buy the entire plaza, which includes two ice rinks rented to the nonprofit Indiana/World Skating Academy for $1 a year.

The rinks will be demolished for the new development, he said. The academy had its lease to use the rinks extended through August, and it could be extended beyond then, depending on when construction starts on the new buildings, Baumgarten said.

The academy has been in talks to move its skating operations to the Indiana State Fairgrounds.

One hurdle to developing the plaza is the separate ownership of the garage that underlies the site. It is owned by a partnership headed by New York investor Armand Lasky. Baumgarten said Lasky might become involved in development on the plaza, depending on the design.

The nonprofit sports corporation, which promotes sports in Indiana, has controlled the plaza since it was built 21 years ago to commemorate the Pan Am Games. But as the buildings and plaza aged, they become a financial drag on the sports corporation, requiring costly maintenance of the bricks that line the plaza, the support columns underneath and other items, sports corporation President Susan Williams has said.

The city last year stripped the public-use provision from most of the plaza, clearing the way for its sale to a private commercial developer. But the city will require the new owner to maintain public use on 10,000 square feet of the plaza where some recognition to the Pan Am Games must be kept.

Proceeds from the sale, finalized Friday, will create an operating endowment to pay expenses of the sports corporation and support youth sports.

Once the RCA Dome is demolished, the new main entrance of the Indiana Convention Center will be directly across Capitol Avenue from the plaza.