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Old April 7th, 2008, 02:33 AM   #1221
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Does anyone know if a building gets credit toward LEED certification if it is hooked to a city's central steam loop? Indianapolis' district steam system is supposedly second to only NYC's. It seems to me that a central steam plant could be considered more "green" than individual electric or gas systems per building.

(Yes, I do know that Indianapolis' central steam comes from coal.)
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Old April 7th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #1222
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Interesting article about hotel building during the current financial sitaution. A good reference about Indy and the JW.

From USA Today in the Indy Star. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1003/BUSINESS
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Old April 7th, 2008, 04:09 PM   #1223
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"left-leaning libertarians"???

There is no such thing as a "left-leaning libertarian". Libertarians share the classical liberal advocacy of individual rights and the classical conservative preference for (extremely) limited government power, size, scope, and spending in keeping with the Tenth Amendment. That might make libertarians "dreamers" but it does not make them "left-leaning".
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Old April 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM   #1224
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WTHR is reporting the sale of Pan Am Plaza:

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8128745

They extended the lease for the skating academy through the summer -- if those people don't know where they're going to go yet, god help them -- but I wonder what they're planning to do with the Plaza long-term.
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Old April 7th, 2008, 07:43 PM   #1225
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Pan-Am has a lot to offer. They mention keeping a piece to commemorate the 1987 games, which is good. Good opportunity to put in something great
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Old April 7th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundermutt View Post
"left-leaning libertarians"???

There is no such thing as a "left-leaning libertarian". Libertarians share the classical liberal advocacy of individual rights and the classical conservative preference for (extremely) limited government power, size, scope, and spending in keeping with the Tenth Amendment. That might make libertarians "dreamers" but it does not make them "left-leaning".
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Originally Posted by speedblue47 View Post
...and you still believe in this wacko theory promulgated by unions, socialist, democrats, Marxists, centrist Republicans, anarchist and left-leaning libertarians and special interest groups...
"left leaning libertarians" tend to be agorists who favor the means of the radical left, though I'm not sure speedblue47 meant it to be that particular. He/she might have, but I'm not going to read into too deeply since I'm not sure if "anarchist" is meant to be grouped with libertarians or not. I also don't know if it's meant to be a slur (as it often is), but it seems that that sentence is meant to exclude and demean everyone who doesn't share speedblue47's worldview.

[Edit: There's a second interpretation of the term "left-leaning libertarian" floating around that holds that it's a dodge by run-of-the-mill libertarians trying to distance themselves from Bush Republicans. There might also be some flexibility on social programs, but it varies, of course, from person to person. It is in this context that I thought speedblue47 might have been using it as a slur.]

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Originally Posted by speedblue47 View Post
Quite telling that you resort to ad hominem in the first line of your retort. Quite adult of you.
I didn't bother to read that post until just now, speedblue47, and there are a lot of reasons for that, but let me give you a some unsolicited advice: Never use the phrase "ad hominem". We are all smart enough to spot personal attacks ourselves, thanks. If you can't help yourself and you simply must expose the world to your vast erudition by using it anyway then I suggest not resorting to personal attacks in the very next sentence (fragment).

Quote:
I'll stick with the 250 real climatologists that are not working under research grants or hired by lobbying firms that recently said that there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change, there is no basis for a claim of a marked increase in either global mean temperature or high intensity storms.
And while I enjoyed that because it made me think of this, if you're going to go through the effort to tell us how stupid we are for not agreeing with you and your "real climatologists" you might as well get the basic terms of the argument right. Though, to be fair, it is completely true that "there is not only not a case based in evidence for anthropomorphic climate change." Anthropogenic climate change is a whole 'nother onion, though. If you haven't had your fill of that argument I recommend this place.

Keep in mind that I didn't attack the substance of your argument, though it's probably clear that I disagree with you. I'm not interested in arguing about about the merits of scientific thought with someone who doesn't seem interested in the processes of scientific thought. I'm not sure why I took it this far. I must've been bored. Welcome to the internet...

Now isn't there some local planning issue to talk about where we can expose my ignorance?

Last edited by pig; April 8th, 2008 at 12:43 AM.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 03:25 AM   #1227
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Pan Am Plaza as it currently stands is underused. I doubt we will see anything built on it for awhile until the economy improves.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 03:45 AM   #1228
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lucas oil stadium

I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?
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Old April 8th, 2008, 06:19 AM   #1229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philaustin06 View Post
I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?
I heard that rumor this weekend, but haven't seen it in the media. Don't know if there's anything to it and hope it's not true.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 06:42 AM   #1230
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If the above is true, Indianapolis' image could suffer severe ramifications in my opinion. That stadium is a reflection of this city's motivation and drive to succeed in a world that demands increasing amounts of efficiency, and productivity. The Luke could very well act as a catalyst to bigger and better things for the city as whole. Completing a task such as Lucas Oil stadium will not simply act as the future glorifying symbol of the indianapolis sports scene, but also will be an everlasting reflection of the efficiency of the city's productivity base, polotico - economic system, and the will power of the citizens.

If this stadium is indeed falling behind, and I were the director of this project, i would be threatining the workers with their jobs, and desperately searching the labor force for more effective hands to finish the job. I am certainly no expert on engineering and construction logistics, but it would appear that the most difficult aspects of the stadium have been completed. Are we - the citizens - really going allow the installation of seating, toilets, and the glutonous suites to slow us down ... i should think not! I would hope not!

I hope to never see a day when the Network News' Helicopter is flying over the stadium at the NFL opener this year, while John Madden criticsizes the inhability of this city to complete this stadium. Now I love indianapolis, ever since i moved here 2 and a half years ago. I dont think i would want to live anywhere else. This city stands firm as one of the great reflections of the american cultural identity which is actually the blending of identities .... now im on a rant and not talking about the stadium. But anyways, I just heard this news before i started writing this, and i as a citizen of indianapolis am appauled.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 03:55 PM   #1231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philaustin06 View Post
I could be wrong but I thought I heard on channel 8 news today that lucas oil stadium wouldnt be completed by it's august deadline?? Like I said I could be wrong, I've looked everywhere for a story but no luck. Anyone heard anything?
From April 8 indystar.com:

Event moves due to Lucas Oil Stadium work

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- The Drum Corps International World Championships is moving this summer's competition to Indiana University's Memorial Stadium because the new Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis won't be completed in time.

About 40 drum and bugle corps from around the world will participate in the three-day event, Aug. 7-9. The competition is expected to draw about 35,000 people. The competitors range in age from 14 to 22.

Drum Corps International is headquartered in Indianapolis and plans to hold future events at Lucas Oil Stadium.

The Indianapolis Colts are scheduled to open the new stadium with a preseason game against Buffalo on Aug. 24.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #1232
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"You may dispense with the pleasantries, I'm here to put you back on schedule"
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Old April 8th, 2008, 04:06 PM   #1233
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from April 8 indystar.com

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2008804080331

Pan Am Plaza sale could spur development
Indiana Sports Corp. sells site to Kite and Coastal Partners

By Jeff Swiatek

The Indiana Sports Corp. has sold Pan Am Plaza and its ice rinks, ridding itself of a financial albatross and opening up one of Downtown's prime blocks for development.

The buyer of the public gathering spot for Indianapolis Colts pre-game fan rallies and other outdoor events is a joint venture of Kite Realty Group of Indianapolis and Coastal Partners, a California real estate investment company that already owns the Pan Am Plaza office building.
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None of the parties in the deal, which was announced Monday, would reveal the sale price.

The new owners are looking at developing office and retail space on the site, but haven't decided on a design or timetable, said Brett Baumgarten, chief executive of Coastal.

"When all is said and done, this will be our trophy property," Baumgarten said. "We feel we have purchased one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent, development parcels in the city."

Baumgarten said the company is "absolutely not" putting a hotel on the site.

Coastal owns more than a dozen industrial, office and retail properties in Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Wisconsin and California.

It has owned the 12-story Pan Am office tower since 2003. Its agreement to sell the building last year to a Texas real estate investment company fell apart.

The plaza also was to be the site of a 44-story InterContinental Hotel, but that project fell through when the city backed another hotel project to link to the Indiana Convention Center.

When those deals didn't happen, Baumgarten said, Coastal's partners decided to take on Kite as a partner and buy the entire plaza, which includes two ice rinks rented to the nonprofit Indiana/World Skating Academy for $1 a year.

The rinks will be demolished for the new development, he said. The academy had its lease to use the rinks extended through August, and it could be extended beyond then, depending on when construction starts on the new buildings, Baumgarten said.

The academy has been in talks to move its skating operations to the Indiana State Fairgrounds.

One hurdle to developing the plaza is the separate ownership of the garage that underlies the site. It is owned by a partnership headed by New York investor Armand Lasky. Baumgarten said Lasky might become involved in development on the plaza, depending on the design.

The nonprofit sports corporation, which promotes sports in Indiana, has controlled the plaza since it was built 21 years ago to commemorate the Pan Am Games. But as the buildings and plaza aged, they become a financial drag on the sports corporation, requiring costly maintenance of the bricks that line the plaza, the support columns underneath and other items, sports corporation President Susan Williams has said.

The city last year stripped the public-use provision from most of the plaza, clearing the way for its sale to a private commercial developer. But the city will require the new owner to maintain public use on 10,000 square feet of the plaza where some recognition to the Pan Am Games must be kept.

Proceeds from the sale, finalized Friday, will create an operating endowment to pay expenses of the sports corporation and support youth sports.

Once the RCA Dome is demolished, the new main entrance of the Indiana Convention Center will be directly across Capitol Avenue from the plaza.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #1234
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Coastal Partners' portfolio is awful. I'm not too optimistic about this one. Even their website is ugly. I think that says a lot about their taste/priorities.

http://www.coastalpartners.net/

Hopefully, since they've called this their "trophy property" they'll invest in an architect.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #1235
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yeah I heard some rumors the stadium was as much as 4 months behind schedule and that they've been keeping it under wraps and telling the media otherwise. Hopefully this isn't going to hurt Indy in May when we pitch our bid for the 2012 Superbowl.

Not sure if you guys have been keeping up with Dallas's new stadium but they have a ton of work already done, more than we had done at that point in construction. Either hire more workers or fire the project manager.

John Madden loves Indianapolis, im sure he'll speak nothing but very highly of the stadium once he's in it, that is if it's open in time for the Colts season. What do you think are the chances of preseason being held in the RCA Dome, with Lucas Oil Stadium holding the first reg season game?
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Old April 8th, 2008, 05:43 PM   #1236
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The dome is scheduled for demo this month. If LOS isn't complete by the beginning of the Colts season, they will have to find an alternate venue. Moving the preseason games to possibly West Lafayette or Bloomington wouldn't be a big deal, but if they're not done by the start of the regular season (Sep. 7), then that's a HUGE problem.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #1237
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I don't think it is possible that they don't get it finished. they will hire more workers and work around the clock. Washington built an entire stadium in a year. they will get it done. If they don't I would love it if they moved the game to Bloomington.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #1238
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you all are not understanding the article about the Drum Corps/LOS. The Stadium was to never be open that early. It has always been Aug 24 for a pre-season game, at least that is what I have always understood.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 08:09 PM   #1239
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Ok, that makes sense. I thought the news about drum corps was breaking news. Thank you for calming us down
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Old April 8th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #1240
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yeah, like I said, there is no way the stadium isn't ready to go for the colts.
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