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Old January 25th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #161
Harpua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
The Uptown at 49th & College is close to reality:

That's not the current version that was approved.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
It's tall, isn't it? I have ALWAYS thought that, however, the neighborhood is BY FAR the worst on the near southside. Prostitutes and drug dealers can easily be spotted when driving past that nasty VP.
East and Terrace. Yep That neighborhood is the pits. See http://www.concordcdc.org/ Looks like they are at least trying. I believe it's also known as the Bates-Hendricks neighborhood?
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Old January 25th, 2008, 10:45 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
That's not the current version that was approved.
That's too bad, I just grabbed it from:

http://www.carreaudesign.com/p_uptown.html

How similar is the new design? (It's taller, of course) Any other design details you've seen?
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Old January 26th, 2008, 01:41 AM   #164
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It is frustrating that DMD does not always post site plans and elevations with their staff reports on the website. They'll post a plan for some new garage Joe Blow wants to build too close to the property line at 7654 Nowhere St., but when high-impact projects come along, zippo.
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Old January 26th, 2008, 02:09 AM   #165
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Wife and I and our 16 month old are going to check out the Central Library Saturday. Has anyone seen the "baby" area"? Also I understand there is parking (duh). Is it $$$ and is it one of those automated systems? My son Aidan is all about being read to now. The Shelby Street library is not the best when it comes to Dr Seuss. You can PM me so as not to tie up this very important discussion we have going on in this thread.

PS. I really need to find another avatar. This one freaks me out a bit. (*edit, found another avatar. Wife says I'm gay for Moby).

Last edited by mobyhead; January 27th, 2008 at 01:34 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2008, 03:55 AM   #166
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Parking ramp is accessible off Pennsylvania (one way south), tucked in just to the south of the old Ambassador apartment building at 9th St. Don't blink or you'll miss it; with the Ambassador build right up to the sidewalk the "Parking" sign at the ramp is hidden. Not sure of cost.

There are meters in the area you don't have to feed on Saturday. Staying above ground you can experience the one good side of the library: park along the American Legion Mall and walk up to the front. Otherwise you're just driving into the bowels of the ugly side. So see, your question really IS related to development in Indy!
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Old January 27th, 2008, 04:20 PM   #167
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Building Downtown

From indystar.com:

As in the 1980s, Indy now faces a slew of ambitious developments; the past shows that many of them will never come to fruition.

In 1986, Indianapolis developer Kenneth Puller proposed a grand hotel and apartment complex on the Downtown Canal.

The 441-unit project would have featured a lagoon made by routing the canal inside the hotel's lobby. It never was built.
And Puller, bitter at the city for awarding the canal-front land to another developer, says he hasn't visited the Downtown Canal since. "I lost a lot of money on that project," he said.
The late 1980s birthed a flurry of Downtown developments that radically altered the skyline. But many projects from that time, like Puller's, never saw a ribbon- cutting.
A glass-encased condo building near Massachusetts Avenue, a climbable spire along White River designed by famed architect Cesar Pelli and a 71-story World Trade Center office tower were among the failed projects of the 1980s.
Such projects hold a lesson for today: It is almost a certainty that some of the dozen or so significant Downtown projects now on the drawing board never will happen.
The projects, with collective estimated development costs topping $1.3 billion, include another big canal hotel, a dual- hotel tower by Conseco Fieldhouse, a $425 million four-hotel complex linked to the Indiana Convention Center and a cluster of hotels, theater, shops and condos east of Lucas Oil Stadium.
As in the late 1980s, the building boom has been spurred by an investment market that, until lately, was flush with cash and eager to plunk it into real estate, which is known for its stable, steady returns.
But then came the credit crunch and the subprime market collapse. Developers face a financing market that's demanding they put more money into their own projects, said John E. Huguenard, a senior vice president at Colliers Turley Martin Tucker real estate company in Indianapolis.
"The long and short of it is: It's going to take a lot more cash to do these deals. That's the only way they (lenders) will loan money,'' he said. "It's going to be a lot tougher than it was a year ago'' to finance projects, he said.
Projects can fail for all sorts of reasons.
Take Puller's project, proposed along the canal at New York Street. He had the land, investment partners, architect and even a $25,000 tabletop model of the project. Then the mayoral administration changed, from William Hudnut to Stephen Goldsmith, and Puller couldn't get needed city assistance. He eventually lost control of the land.
"I was on the outside looking in. I was left high and dry," says Puller.
Brad Hurt, a former Indianapolis consultant who is president of Urban Initiatives in Crawfordsville, was advising Goldsmith on canal development at the time. Hurt says Puller's project failed the numbers test.
"It was just overly ambitious," he says. The project would require a subsidy in the millions of dollars that the city didn't have, he says. "It was a grandiose project. And it wasn't meant to be," Hurt says.
The land went through two other proposals before it was developed as a modest hotel with a suburban feel.
A tall order

The attempt to erect what would have been the tallest building in the city also ran into problems.
The 71-story World Trade Center was scrapped, in part, because it would have cast a shadow on the Statehouse dome, which city officials wouldn't accept, says retired Indianapolis developer Jim Baize. He planned the project at Georgia and Illinois streets in the late 1980s.
The shadow problem led to a redesign that "brought my building down considerably in size" and made it impossible to cover the cost from the rents, says Baize, who had bought a license from the World Trade Center Association to use its name. The building would have been part of a network of World Trade Centers in many of the nation's largest cities.
Unable to find financing for the $200 million tower, Baize sold his license. The site now holds a parking garage for Circle Centre mall.
A matter of money

The cold logic of finances also doomed the 750-foot-tall, walkable tower proposed in White River State Park. Park directors paid more than $1 million to draw up the plan and plans for other large-scale entertainment and retail attractions, none of which came to be. Connecticut architect Cesar Pelli designed the tower in 1984.
"The pictures were all pretty, but it really wouldn't have worked commercially," says Sidney Weedman, former executive director of the park commission. "Private developers were smarter than the rest of us. They knew there was not enough critical mass (of people and attractions in the park) for it to go."
Still, Weedman says the tower plan played a role in encouraging Downtown's development during the 1980s and led to the city's core retail attraction becoming Circle Centre. "It did wake people up. It created some excitement."
Into the future

Many of the failed 1980s projects could never be revived, but former developer J. Scott Keller says his plan for the grandly named Crystal Palace, consisting of 65 glass-sided condominiums atop a parking garage, could fly today.
"I think it makes more sense now than it did then," says Keller, an Indianapolis appraiser who got out of the development business in 1989 when the real estate market was hit by a credit crunch.
The site at Michigan Street near Massachusetts Avenue remains a parking lot today, with no announced developments planned there. Instead, new condo development has focused along Massachusetts Avenue.
Fresh stimulus

Developers today are rushing to build hotels to cater to the increased demand for lodging Downtown that will result from a doubling in size of the Indiana Convention Center in the next three years.
"It's going to come down to who is going to get financing, who has the best locations and who has strong partners," says Brian Epstein, president of Urban Space.
His group proposes to co-develop a hotel, condo and retail project on South Street near Union Station.
"Not all these projects are going to happen. There is no doubt about it," says Epstein.
He thinks the chances are "pretty good" his $60 million project, called Ralston Square, will take shape, but it still hasn't landed financing or signed on anchor tenants.
Developers from Indianapolis' 1980s building boom can relate to that.

There's a rendering of the failed 71 story trade center proposal in the hard copy of the Indianapolis Star. Would've been nice to see that monster built. I know it's naive to expect all of these proposed project to be built, but I think a majority of them have a good chance. Here's hopin'.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 04:55 PM   #168
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Does anyone have any additional info on that Indianapolis' World Trade Center? The roof of the building looks exactly like One Liberty Place in Philadelphia.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #169
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The World Trade Center that would have been built here does look very similar to Philadelphia's One Liberty Place. For a building of that time, it's actually surprisingly attractive and better than some of the crap coming along 20 years later.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 06:40 PM   #170
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I hope the next 40+ story building to be built in Indy takes on some of the characteristics of this one. Something strong and stately with an attractive cap.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #171
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Man, that WTC building would be amazing, but I would never hold my breath for it.. I can't people really objected because of a shadow, that's some serious bullshit right there.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #172
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I wonder if Chase Tower would have still been built if that World Trade Center came to fruition.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #173
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I like the world trade center. I understand them not wanting the statehouse to be over shadowed, but did they really have facts to back this up? I don't see many projects occuring downtown that are proposed(SODO, Penn centre) but I think we have better chances today then we did in the 80's. I wish they built the World trade center as it is a real gem with a timeless yet sleek and modern design.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #174
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Negative Media

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the local media (Indianapolis Star and IBJ specifically) goes out of their way to present proposed development projects from the most negative standpoint?

Take the recent article in the IBJ ("Financial troubles mount for local developer") emphasizing the financial woes of Premier Properties as an example. This is the second article written by IBJ staff in recent months that has presented the company in a negative light. I can only imagine the impact this has on Premier being able to engage investors and line up financing.

Then today, Indystar.com reads "As in the 1980s, Indy now faces a slew of ambitious developments; the past shows that many of them will never come to fruition." Why is it necessary to add the second line? Is it the responsibility to for a news outlet to manage expectations of the public?

The way i see it, it is difficult enough for local developers to get bold projects off the ground without having local media outlets adding an additional obstacle by negatively influencing public perceptions.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:44 PM   #175
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Perhaps there is money involved? It seems as if they wish to halt the rebuilding of the city core for some odd reason. 0_o
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #176
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Here's One Liberty just for the hell of it:


Actually, the facade on WTC looks very similar to the Chase Tower now. Perhaps the Chase design was inspired by it:


It also looks a little like the never-built Bank of SW tower in Houston:
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #177
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I'm glad the world trade center tower wasn't built. As overpowering as the Chase Tower is, think of how much more overpowering the trade center tower would have been. Maybe if we had a many more buildings in our skyline, like a city such as St. Louis, it would look in place. And I doubt Chase tower wouldve been built if the trade center went up. Where would the demand be for office space? we would have the one america tower, one indiana square, and the trade center tower completely dominating the skyline, and then a bunch of lower rise buildings. I think it would look a little awkward.

Anyway. It will be interesting to see which projects end up going through. I'm a fan of the three projects in the SE: Penn Centre, Ralston Square, and SoDo. Realistically though, one of them may not come through. Stutz Tower is also looking good - I love the two antennaes on top, will look great coming in on I65. Also, we haven't really recieved much word recently on Market Square have we?
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Old January 27th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #178
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Actually, it is simply realistic to say that many proposed developments never see the light of day.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 09:14 PM   #179
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WTC would have been cool, I had never seen a rendering of it before.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 09:18 PM   #180
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Speaking of negative media, the Indianapolis Star ran an article last July or August titled "Can Downtown Support 35 hotels" and went through all the proposals. I think that was when the renders of Penn Centre first hit press. I'm sure they've been negative in the past as well.

I sort of agree with IBJ doing the article on Premier Properties, their policy of getting behind on payments or not paying up is just bad business. I'm not from the Indy northside, so maybe I'm a little biased and don't care as much for this Venu project as I see it further moving the economic center of the metro to the northside. Realistically though, as much as we want a lot of these DT developments to go through, can they all really be supported?
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