FRANCE - Stadium and Arena Development News - Page 11

Neda Say · October 15th, 2006, 09:47 PM

Eomer on that I agree 200% and if they still don't want to play in the SDF Then the best they could unludicrouly get is the 54000 seater expansion that already makes PDP a 5 star.

The problem with rugby is that it's not a national sport, it's a regional sport over then Stade Français Paris there's no other club out of a south west lane going from Biarritz to Montpellier.

Not to mention that they're should be a lot more empty seat on that even and that some awsome games will be played in Wales and Scotland and not on the mainland.

Vilak · October 16th, 2006, 05:32 PM

concerning parc des princes, Eomer, I will answer in it's own topic.

In France Rugby is indeed a not so much popular sport.
Only big matches can attract enough people to fill a stadium (like past sunday where 80.000 packed in the SDF. Thanx to Canal+ which made it a fiesta with pre-match and post-match attractions) and Big matches happen once or twice a year.

When I look at twickenham or murrayfield, I think we're definitly not a Rugby country.

eomer · October 16th, 2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

The problem with rugby is that it's not a national sport, it's a regional sport over then Stade Français Paris there's no other club out of a south west lane going from Biarritz to Montpellier.

Thanks for Clermont-Auvergne (ex Montferrand), Bègles-Bordeaux, Brive, Grenoble, Bourgoin...

If PSG want to expend PdP to 54 k: there will be no problem. But 80 k is definitly not possible. And I'm not shure that having two 5 stars stadium in Paris is necessary: SdF will allway be more usefull for big matchs than PdP.

And PSG is nothing without Dhorasoo...

Neda Say · October 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM

That's why I said lane not line and the only, top 14, my lane forgot was Bourgoin. All I meant to say is that rugby is not yet big enough of a game to have capacity increase in stadium... Especially with the format chosen for this rwc.

I'd like to see pdp improved nicely to 54000 getting the fans closer to the pitch, making it comfy for big time sponsors but other than that Idon't want to see anything happening to the roof.

ps: top 14 rugby teams are expending their stadium to an average of 15000 seats. No big cities involved is not having already a 35000+ seater ready for the rwc.

m@rco · October 17th, 2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

...is it far from the hockey arena ?

Yes and no...

Let's go back in 1968 to the Olympic Games and the olympics site in the "Parc Paul Mistral".

The "Palais des Sports" was the main ice rink (12,000 seats) and was called the "Stade de Glace" ("Ice Stadium"). But after the Olympic Games it has been converted into a multi usage stadium (concert, velodrome...) like the POPB in Paris and is no more used as a ice rink.

On the other hand, near the "Palais des Sports" there was the training ice rink (up to 3,000 seats) that was used till 2001 by the local ice hockey team: "Les Bruleurs de Loups. Today it is a multi use stadium (handball, basket-ball, volley-ball...) and is called "Halle Clémenceau".

But the new arena "Pole Sud" ("South Pole" ; 3,500 seats) built in 2001 and composed of 2 ice rinks is quite "far" from the downtown (5km).

Today the new arena is too small for the ice hockey team because most of the time it is full, so it should be nice if they could increase the capacity to 5,000 seats...

m@rco · October 17th, 2006, 04:11 PM

Pictures taken the 14/10/06

East stand:

South stand:

Vilak · October 17th, 2006, 04:40 PM

Really greats pix!
Thanks a lot for them.
But I don't see how can you expand it to 28.000? You surely will have to destroy the top isn't it?

Vilak · October 17th, 2006, 04:50 PM

Yes neda say.
Most of stadium are increased by City/club partnership.
the governement won't care about it until we get football euro 2012.

it's time to have 5/6 50.000+ stadium.
Actually we only have two and if everybody in charge realise the various projects, we could in 6 years have:
SDF (80k)
Paris PDP (54k)
Marseille (60/80k)
Lille (50k)
Lyon (55/70k)
Lens (50/60k)
St etienne (50/60k)
that makes 7.

I can't wait to see pix of last four projects.

skaP187 · October 17th, 2006, 06:24 PM

where are the pictures of Lille in that case? 50.000? man let me see!

Vilak · October 18th, 2006, 12:06 AM

There's no pix for any of those 4 last projects (lens, lille, lyon & st etienne).

What we now for now is that Lille wants a UEFA 5 stars 50.000 seats stadium with a retractable roof.
they know how much money it should cost and they can afford it with various partners they already have found.
All they need now is to receive projects from architects and aval from mayor office.

It's about the same for the 3 other cities. only the capacity and the facility change.

Neda Say · October 18th, 2006, 12:41 AM

Thinking about it I don't believe that lille is still pretty much a point zero remember that the future ex new stadium should have seen it's first season this year. It's not even funny it's pathetic.

I read on sports24.com the other day that Aulas (OL chairman) wants to have hotel, spa, fitness centre, restaurants superstores, conference rooms for roadshows and move training facility near by ...Bye bye Tola Vologe!

And regarding picture on either Lille lens or lyon Idon't think we're going to see any accurate rendering anytime soon.

m@rco · October 18th, 2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilak

Really greats pix!
But I don't see how can you expand it to 28.000? You surely will have to destroy the top isn't it?

No, you don't have to destroy the roof. I don't find any more the picture of the stadium with 28,000 seats but I can tell you it is possible. I think the same strategy as the "Stade de la Licorne" in Amiens will be used (12,000 to 20,000). The new tier will be inserted above the lower stands and will be hung on the frame...

http://www.la-metro.org/fr/images/me...microscope.pdf

Neda Say · October 18th, 2006, 11:07 AM

That's the very good thing, Vilak : they won't have to destroy the top, they will just unload it and then reload it... This stadium is basically just a bigger stade de la licorne in it's design. The roof is very light sort off. You can undo it properly, lay it on the ground, do what you have to do and put everything back nice and clean.

Very nice pics marco and thanks for the info. I 've always been impressed by the design of the old Palais des sports, I've seen a recent picture of the inside it's huge. The floor is Bigger than the one in Bercy!?

Do you think they're going to increase the cap of Pole sud? Well it would be nice if they want to get the olympics in 2018 for sure!

CharlieP · October 18th, 2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

That's why I said lane not line and the only, top 14, my lane forgot was Bourgoin. All I meant to say is that rugby is not yet big enough of a game to have capacity increase in stadium... Especially with the format chosen for this rwc.

ps: top 14 rugby teams are expending their stadium to an average of 15000 seats. No big cities involved is not having already a 35000+ seater ready for the rwc.

Yes, I understand that there is no need for extra capacity for the Top 14, but my point was that if the soccer clubs want to expand their capacity soon, it is a shame that these expansions are coming too late for the Rugby World Cup. England supporters will fill Stade Geoffroy-Guichard for the first game against the USA, so it's a shame it hasn't been extended yet (or the new Lille stadium built). More people would be able to watch France v Georgia[1] in Marseilles if the expansion was done, and travelling New Zealand fans will probably fill Stade de Gerland. There are plenty of other games that will sell out in stadia not earmarked for expansion (e.g. France v Morocco[2] in Toulouse, England v Samoa in Nantes) that could have been scheduled for larger venues if all the projects on Vilak's list had happened already.

[1] or Portugal or Russia or Spain.
[2] or Namibia.

Vilak · October 18th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Yes Neda, Aulas wants everything around the futur stadium.
that's why the 70k stadium he wanted 3/4 years ago is now a 55k arena being the cornerstone of a business center.

Personnally, I'd like much a 70k stadium.

RWC will be huge in France but if we expanded stadiums like nantes just for it, they would have been too big for their club thereafter.

It's sure governement could have participate in the fund of lille and lyon future stadiums at the condition they're ready for RWC but those projects started too late.

Vilak · October 18th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Great!

I like thiis new way to built stadium with facilities for future expansion!
It should be the rule!!!!!

m@rco · October 18th, 2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

Very nice pics marco and thanks for the info. I 've always been impressed by the design of the old Palais des sports, I've seen a recent picture of the inside it's huge. The floor is Bigger than the one in Bercy!?

I don't know, the floor area of the "Palais des Sports" is 12,000 m2...

The problem is the space taken by the track of the velodrome and instead of the POPB, the track is not covered by stands so some seats are lost...

A picture during the World Championship of Petanque

A picture of the "Palais des Sports" with the working area of the "Stade d'agglomeration"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

Do you think they're going to increase the cap of Pole sud? Well it would be nice if they want to get the olympics in 2018 for sure!

The problem is the money ! With the delays of the new football stadium, the price of the arena has been multiplyed by 2 ! So it will be hard to the "Metro" (metropolitan government structure of Grenoble) to find money...

***3tmk*** · October 18th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

3tmk I have a request but I don't know if you have anyway to pull it
I know you're on the superpolis thread and I wondered a bit if you could do a rendering using your skills for the future Stade LG or Accor Parc located nearby Lyon.

If anyone else can be my guest.

Here's the deal, use a simple baseframe like emirates stadium and a skyscraper to try to get an idea or dream should I say of this new facility

What do we know about it? well it should be something like that
55000 seater, conference center, hotel and restaurant, oh yes the probably biggest bunch of flat screens you've ever seen on either side of the Rhone.

good luck

hehehe, sorry but that's way beyond my league. Plus we deal with simple projects with mspaint, although some of us have tried stadia, if you look around the map you will see them.
Perhaps you could try to open a thread in the 3d section, those guys have real skills

Neda Say · October 18th, 2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3tmk

hehehe, sorry but that's way beyond my league. Plus we deal with simple projects with mspaint, although some of us have tried stadia, if you look around the map you will see them.
Perhaps you could try to open a thread in the 3d section, those guys have real skills

Thanks for the tip

Neda Say · October 18th, 2006, 08:59 PM

I would be ok if Lyon get a 70000... But I said that before; it's good as long as you play big games i.e champions leagues games every year. 55000 seats worth roughly 300 000 000 a for 70000 just add another 100 and you get the figure. These are huge "boats" to finance

The government did not help a single bit for this RWC and I don't remember the french rugby federation asking for expansions. They were just so happy to have this rwc.

I'm in favor of any club/city making improvement to it's stadium I'd like to see Nantes and Toulouse expanded if possible. I sais from the start that rennes did something too small and that Strasbourg should... do something.

Marseille truly doesn't need 80000 seats... It would have been great to have semi finals in a 80000 seater but it's just not going to happen.

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October 15th, 2006, 09:47 PM	#201
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,011 Likes (Received): 11	Eomer on that I agree 200% and if they still don't want to play in the SDF Then the best they could unludicrouly get is the 54000 seater expansion that already makes PDP a 5 star. The problem with rugby is that it's not a national sport, it's a regional sport over then Stade Français Paris there's no other club out of a south west lane going from Biarritz to Montpellier. Not to mention that they're should be a lot more empty seat on that even and that some awsome games will be played in Wales and Scotland and not on the mainland.

October 16th, 2006, 05:32 PM	#202
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	concerning parc des princes, Eomer, I will answer in it's own topic. In France Rugby is indeed a not so much popular sport. Only big matches can attract enough people to fill a stadium (like past sunday where 80.000 packed in the SDF. Thanx to Canal+ which made it a fiesta with pre-match and post-match attractions) and Big matches happen once or twice a year. When I look at twickenham or murrayfield, I think we're definitly not a Rugby country.

October 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#204
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,011 Likes (Received): 11	That's why I said lane not line and the only, top 14, my lane forgot was Bourgoin. All I meant to say is that rugby is not yet big enough of a game to have capacity increase in stadium... Especially with the format chosen for this rwc. I'd like to see pdp improved nicely to 54000 getting the fans closer to the pitch, making it comfy for big time sponsors but other than that Idon't want to see anything happening to the roof. ps: top 14 rugby teams are expending their stadium to an average of 15000 seats. No big cities involved is not having already a 35000+ seater ready for the rwc.

October 17th, 2006, 04:11 PM	#206
m@rco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grenoble, FRA Posts: 1,277 Likes (Received): 0	Pictures taken the 14/10/06 East stand: South stand:

October 17th, 2006, 04:40 PM	#207
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	Really greats pix! Thanks a lot for them. But I don't see how can you expand it to 28.000? You surely will have to destroy the top isn't it?

October 17th, 2006, 04:50 PM	#208
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	Yes neda say. Most of stadium are increased by City/club partnership. the governement won't care about it until we get football euro 2012. it's time to have 5/6 50.000+ stadium. Actually we only have two and if everybody in charge realise the various projects, we could in 6 years have: SDF (80k) Paris PDP (54k) Marseille (60/80k) Lille (50k) Lyon (55/70k) Lens (50/60k) St etienne (50/60k) that makes 7. I can't wait to see pix of last four projects.

October 17th, 2006, 06:24 PM	#209
skaP187 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Alicante Posts: 1,688 Likes (Received): 10	where are the pictures of Lille in that case? 50.000? man let me see!

October 18th, 2006, 12:06 AM	#210
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	There's no pix for any of those 4 last projects (lens, lille, lyon & st etienne). What we now for now is that Lille wants a UEFA 5 stars 50.000 seats stadium with a retractable roof. they know how much money it should cost and they can afford it with various partners they already have found. All they need now is to receive projects from architects and aval from mayor office. It's about the same for the 3 other cities. only the capacity and the facility change.

October 18th, 2006, 12:41 AM	#211
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,011 Likes (Received): 11	Thinking about it I don't believe that lille is still pretty much a point zero remember that the future ex new stadium should have seen it's first season this year. It's not even funny it's pathetic. I read on sports24.com the other day that Aulas (OL chairman) wants to have hotel, spa, fitness centre, restaurants superstores, conference rooms for roadshows and move training facility near by ...Bye bye Tola Vologe! And regarding picture on either Lille lens or lyon Idon't think we're going to see any accurate rendering anytime soon.

October 18th, 2006, 11:07 AM	#213
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,011 Likes (Received): 11	That's the very good thing, Vilak : they won't have to destroy the top, they will just unload it and then reload it... This stadium is basically just a bigger stade de la licorne in it's design. The roof is very light sort off. You can undo it properly, lay it on the ground, do what you have to do and put everything back nice and clean. Very nice pics marco and thanks for the info. I 've always been impressed by the design of the old Palais des sports, I've seen a recent picture of the inside it's huge. The floor is Bigger than the one in Bercy!? Do you think they're going to increase the cap of Pole sud? Well it would be nice if they want to get the olympics in 2018 for sure!

October 18th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#215
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	Yes Neda, Aulas wants everything around the futur stadium. that's why the 70k stadium he wanted 3/4 years ago is now a 55k arena being the cornerstone of a business center. Personnally, I'd like much a 70k stadium. RWC will be huge in France but if we expanded stadiums like nantes just for it, they would have been too big for their club thereafter. It's sure governement could have participate in the fund of lille and lyon future stadiums at the condition they're ready for RWC but those projects started too late.

October 18th, 2006, 12:46 PM	#216
Vilak Let's dance in style! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nimes Posts: 568 Likes (Received): 0	Great! I like thiis new way to built stadium with facilities for future expansion! It should be the rule!!!!!

October 18th, 2006, 08:59 PM	#220
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,011 Likes (Received): 11	I would be ok if Lyon get a 70000... But I said that before; it's good as long as you play big games i.e champions leagues games every year. 55000 seats worth roughly 300 000 000 a for 70000 just add another 100 and you get the figure. These are huge "boats" to finance The government did not help a single bit for this RWC and I don't remember the french rugby federation asking for expansions. They were just so happy to have this rwc. I'm in favor of any club/city making improvement to it's stadium I'd like to see Nantes and Toulouse expanded if possible. I sais from the start that rennes did something too small and that Strasbourg should... do something. Marseille truly doesn't need 80000 seats... It would have been great to have semi finals in a 80000 seater but it's just not going to happen.