FRANCE - Stadium and Arena Development News - Page 3

Jutcho · February 21st, 2006, 10:21 AM

Frederic Thiriez, the president of the French ligue, has declared that French clubs are 15 years behind the English ones when it comes to stadium, and I must say he's totally right. The reason, cities are owning stadium, not clubs which makes very difficult for clubs to invest in their ground. But from now on, Clubs could access the stock market, only if they owned their stadiums. We can expect to see more clubs shifting from renting to possess their ground in order to get extra money from the stock market (only Auxerre, Ajaccio and Lens (for 99 years) own their grounds).

Here is a very interesting link to all the new French stadium and how they've been or will be financed. It presents as well the English and German model in terms of stadium managment. It's in French btw.

http://www.footpro.fr/magazine/pdf/footpro14.pdf

On top of my mind here are all the new French stadium:

Nice (35,000) new one on a new location
Grenoble (25,000) new one build on the old one
Le Mans (25,000) new one on a new location
Lyon (55,000/60,000) new one on a new location
Marseille (80,000) extension of the existing one
Clermont Ferrand (35,000) extension of the existing one
Reims (around 24,000) new one build on the old one
Lille (the sized will be fixed according to the chosen location, but they want to build an ArenA like stadium of 55,000 seats)
Montpellier (20,000) for rugby club
Paris (20,000) for rugby club

Neda Say · February 21st, 2006, 06:05 PM

Rising ticket prices is a bad idea, in the end you still want the best value for your money...The french championship is not the most spectacular one. Lowering prices is good but if you can't buy good player at the end of the season is no good either. building bigger stadium. Yes good idea where do you find the money.Cities were in charge for a long time and don't want that burden anymore. The easiest way for France to have newer stadium would be to welcome the next Europe Championship
and to choose 6 cities who were not involved in the world cup : It could be Grenoble, Strasbourg, Nice, Lille, Le Havre... and have these cities to build 40000+ mini stade de france

French are right to build new stadium but I am sorry there's no point in building ridiculiously undersized stadiums... Grenoble as no doubt the crowd capacity to build at least A 35000 seats stadium extendable to 40000 and they are building a 22000 not 25000 stadium it's just retarded...
How do you fundrase money with such a thing. Tickets money is the key to start building a club... especially in France where corporations are reluctant to invest heavy amount of money in sports...
Besides Ligue 1 would be better off with only 18 or better 16 clubs with all the necessary structures: stadium, coaching staff, training center, marketing department, merchandising strategies... Look at Lens this is a 16000 Habitants city with more the 30000 season ticket holders, because the stadium is big enough they where able to attract Orange as main sponsor a few years ago.

If cities are planning new stadiums they should do them according to the finals goal of their clubs not just to build a stadium... By the way the new Montpellier rugby stadium will be 12000 seats plus another 3000 "standing positions".

Last point England and Italy are the exemple that stock market is not the solution to raise the money they want ... My point of view is that only Lyon can access it oncce the new stadium will be built, on the condition that they still do good in the championship and also on their merchandising activities which are now booming. Look at lasio the only reason they are still in serie A is that having them in serie B would create tremendous riots... Chelsea is ok thanks to Abramovitch, Manchester went out of the market because the Yankee got in... Are the others doing good not? so much!

As to comparing european attendences that is just unfair if you don't balance your results; the number of games per season, the number of teams per championship, size of the stadium... it's easy to say england or Italy as the best crowd, in this case I'll just take the north corean championship... You have six stadium above 100000 seats... My point is England has the first championship in Europe, followed by Spain, Germany, Italy and France... Best crowd!? If all stadium in scotland were like Celtic Park and Ibrox we would all shut up!

GNU · February 22nd, 2006, 03:49 PM

new ground for Nizza

It will have a capacity of 32k

Kampflamm · February 22nd, 2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain1974

It's not an exaggeration at all. Just another way of looking at the figures. The championship pulls in more spectators over a seaon than Serie A and La Liga. Not per game of course but more paying spectators is more paying spectators.

Sure, and if Luxembourg's first league had 10,000 games a year, it would boast the highest attendance figures of any European league.

Mekky II · February 22nd, 2006, 05:21 PM

Marseille stadium with 80 000 seats :

It's sad the PSG doesn't want to take Stade de France, there would be 2 stadiums of 80 000 seats in first french league, but it's not impossible that PSG changes its mind, and "offer" Parc des Princes to the rugby club Stade Français !

Also i am pretty sure Lille will built a stadium with a retractable roof like cardiff or amsterdam, it would be the first of this type in France

Neda Say · February 23rd, 2006, 01:26 AM

PSG will not go to SDF. They have a lease for the Parc des Princes they built their HQ on one side with restaurant, superstore conference center... Parc des Prince is nicer thant SDF which is too cold from my point of view... Besides although it's not so old they did not think of any concession shops - other than food corners when they built it - so the club would have to modify it anyway... Recently the club was thinking about a roof but it was to pricey 50 M euros... And they want to build luxury suite too

As to the Stade Francais rugby team they will have Jean Bouin rebuilt by 2012 according to the mayor Delanoe..with Lagardere involved in the project it will be a 20000 all seater entirely covered.

According to the last rumor lille new stadium would be an arena type stadium with 50000 seats and if lucky they would start building in 2007 it would be near Lille Airport

Iain1974 · February 23rd, 2006, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubomb

One league has 552 games, the other league has 380. You cannot compare total number of spectators.

We all know that Serie A has better crowds. You know it, I know it. Championship crowds are very good, but don't try and bend the truth.

According to your logic, the Championship is more popular that the World Cup Finals!!

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with anyone's mathematics.

If we take this season's figures and extrapolate then Serie A will attract 8.2M. The Championship will attract 9.5M.

Therefor the Championship will attract more paying spectators this season.

Serie A gets better crowds per game 21,635 vs 17,296. Frankly there's very little in it.

The Championship is clearly not more popular than the World Cup. Your desperation is showing. I beleive the total WCQ campaign pulls in about 20M though I've no idea of the average I imagine is't below 10,000 due to the diversity and the huge number of minor nations who enter.

I think the 'Big 12' in college football (USA) pulls in an average of over 80,000 per game. Does this make it more popular than any other sport on the planet? Of course not.

Mekky II · February 23rd, 2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neda Say

PSG will not go to SDF. They have a lease for the Parc des Princes they built their HQ on one side with restaurant, superstore conference center... Parc des Prince is nicer thant SDF which is too cold from my point of view... Besides although it's not so old they did not think of any concession shops - other than food corners when they built it - so the club would have to modify it anyway... Recently the club was thinking about a roof but it was to pricey 50 M euros... And they want to build luxury suite too

As to the Stade Francais rugby team they will have Jean Bouin rebuilt by 2012 according to the mayor Delanoe..with Lagardere involved in the project it will be a 20000 all seater entirely covered.

According to the last rumor lille new stadium would be an arena type stadium with 50000 seats and if lucky they would start building in 2007 it would be near Lille Airport

But if OM gets a 80 000 stadium, and OL a new modern stadium of 60 000, Parc des Princes will look ridiculous with its 50 000 seats, France is still a centralized country, PSG will not like to be overpassed by OM !... It's like if Manchester would try to built something bigger that the new wembley !...

Iain1974 · February 23rd, 2006, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekky II

... It's like if Manchester would try to built something bigger that the new wembley !...

I beleive that's pretty likely. Manchester United's next phase of construction is likely to involve both southern quadrants and the south stand giving a capacity of over 90,000.

bubomb · February 23rd, 2006, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain1974

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with anyone's mathematics.

If we take this season's figures and extrapolate then Serie A will attract 8.2M. The Championship will attract 9.5M.

Therefor the Championship will attract more paying spectators this season.

Serie A gets better crowds per game 21,635 vs 17,296. Frankly there's very little in it.

The Championship is clearly not more popular than the World Cup. Your desperation is showing. I beleive the total WCQ campaign pulls in about 20M though I've no idea of the average I imagine is't below 10,000 due to the diversity and the huge number of minor nations who enter.

I think the 'Big 12' in college football (USA) pulls in an average of over 80,000 per game. Does this make it more popular than any other sport on the planet? Of course not.

"World Cup Finals" was what I said, not 'World Cup campaign'

USA football is the most popular league in the world as it has the highest averages. Anybody with half a brain knows that you compare averages. Total number of spectators can only be compared if you have roughly the same number of games. As the other chap said, if Luxembourg's first league had 10,000 games a year, it would boast the highest attendance figures of any European league.

Thankfully, nearly every neutral on the board agrees Serie A is above the Championship in terms of popularity as they have a higher average. Only english 'fanboys' are going to say the Championship is more popular!!

Martuh · February 23rd, 2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekky II

But if OM gets a 80 000 stadium, and OL a new modern stadium of 60 000, Parc des Princes will look ridiculous with its 50 000 seats, France is still a centralized country, PSG will not like to be overpassed by OM !... It's like if Manchester would try to built something bigger that the new wembley !...

OM already has 60.000+ seats, so they overpassed PSG long time ago.

Neda Say · February 23rd, 2006, 06:02 PM

exact a long long time ago

Besides PSG could easily put another few thousands seats on the lower part of the stadium... They just don't have the money and also they have a huge fan problem.
Anyway as a Parisian born I don't really like SDF for football, it's great for rugby especially when scotish and irish fans are in town. But for football it's just cold...
Besides the psg is really at home in Parc des Princes... I wouldn't mind going there for Champions League games, if Paris was to one day get back in the big league. But at the moment it's unlikely this team has been in a huge rebuild process for the last 5 years and so far it looks like they aren't finished yet.
I hope that Lyon stadium will be more of a 60 something than a 50000...I want Lille to do us a nice covered arena SDF with a track for the athletic meeting. Lens will upgrade the main stands soon and they could reach the 50000too... Nice should just build the 40000 seats directly instead of doing just the 32000. I am pissed off at the Grenoble stadium.

kingdomca · February 24th, 2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubomb

"World Cup Finals" was what I said, not 'World Cup campaign'

USA football is the most popular league in the world as it has the highest averages. Anybody with half a brain knows that you compare averages. Total number of spectators can only be compared if you have roughly the same number of games. As the other chap said, if Luxembourg's first league had 10,000 games a year, it would boast the highest attendance figures of any European league.

Thankfully, nearly every neutral on the board agrees Serie A is above the Championship in terms of popularity as they have a higher average. Only english 'fanboys' are going to say the Championship is more popular!!

Average crowds are obviously more relevant than aggregate crowds but you can hardly use that to say that USA football is the most popular league in the world.

Anyway in your eagernes to put down the english league, you should probably remember that its actually amazing that the Italian top league is even being compared to the english second level... thats pretty shocking for italian football.

Iain1974 · February 24th, 2006, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomca

its actually amazing that the Italian top league is even being compared to the english second level... thats pretty shocking for italian football.

It wasn't always like this though. The Italian top division used to lead in almost every category in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

The robustness of English crowds outside the top level is truly remarkable.

It might be interesting to look at League One compared to top flights as well. Shall we decide to look at averages or aggregates?

bubomb · February 24th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomca

Average crowds are obviously more relevant than aggregate crowds but you can hardly use that to say that USA football is the most popular league in the world.

Anyway in your eagernes to put down the english league, you should probably remember that its actually amazing that the Italian top league is even being compared to the english second level... thats pretty shocking for italian football.

erm....you seem to be confused!! I said Championship crowds were superb in a number of my posts. I am simply pointing out that they are not quite as good as Italian crowds (because some people were stating that they were!!).

Oh my dear 'Danish' chum - not everybody is out to get England you know!!

USA football is the the most popular league in the world - I don't like it myself, but you can't hide the facts!! Whether it is a fair to compare this league to others is a different matter (Although I suspect that If USA football played 34-38 games a year, it would still have by far the highest average crowds!).

Anthony · February 26th, 2006, 08:39 PM

In comparaison (project/club)

Marseille:80000
Lyon:60000
Lille:55000
Paris:45000

Manchester:75000
Arsenal:60000
Liverpool:60000
Newcastle:52000

bubomb · February 28th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Do the hardcore supporters of 'FC Nancy' go by the name of 'The Nancy Boys'?

Neda Say · March 1st, 2006, 12:28 AM

lol hum no I don't remember hearinf that name ever... But I don't think they would mind

Neda Say · March 1st, 2006, 12:44 AM

lol hum no I don't remember hearinf that name ever... But I don't think they would mind

***3tmk*** · March 1st, 2006, 07:00 AM

Well to be honest I doubt PSG needs a bigger stadium at this point.
But if they do manage to get some momentum in the next few years and attendance rises, I think they should leave the Parc.
I'm an avid PSG fan, and as much as I liked going to the Parc, I find it ugly, from the inside-out. I prefer to see it destroyed, and they should rebuild a new modern stadium. But the problem is, as you mentioned, they built the offices outside, and the lounges, the restaurant, etc. and I doubt they want to tear it all down now.

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February 21st, 2006, 10:21 AM	#41
Jutcho Taaaaaame!! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Coventry Posts: 392 Likes (Received): 0	Frederic Thiriez, the president of the French ligue, has declared that French clubs are 15 years behind the English ones when it comes to stadium, and I must say he's totally right. The reason, cities are owning stadium, not clubs which makes very difficult for clubs to invest in their ground. But from now on, Clubs could access the stock market, only if they owned their stadiums. We can expect to see more clubs shifting from renting to possess their ground in order to get extra money from the stock market (only Auxerre, Ajaccio and Lens (for 99 years) own their grounds). Here is a very interesting link to all the new French stadium and how they've been or will be financed. It presents as well the English and German model in terms of stadium managment. It's in French btw. http://www.footpro.fr/magazine/pdf/footpro14.pdf On top of my mind here are all the new French stadium: Nice (35,000) new one on a new location Grenoble (25,000) new one build on the old one Le Mans (25,000) new one on a new location Lyon (55,000/60,000) new one on a new location Marseille (80,000) extension of the existing one Clermont Ferrand (35,000) extension of the existing one Reims (around 24,000) new one build on the old one Lille (the sized will be fixed according to the chosen location, but they want to build an ArenA like stadium of 55,000 seats) Montpellier (20,000) for rugby club Paris (20,000) for rugby club

February 21st, 2006, 06:05 PM	#42
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,043 Likes (Received): 27	Rising ticket prices is a bad idea, in the end you still want the best value for your money...The french championship is not the most spectacular one. Lowering prices is good but if you can't buy good player at the end of the season is no good either. building bigger stadium. Yes good idea where do you find the money.Cities were in charge for a long time and don't want that burden anymore. The easiest way for France to have newer stadium would be to welcome the next Europe Championship and to choose 6 cities who were not involved in the world cup : It could be Grenoble, Strasbourg, Nice, Lille, Le Havre... and have these cities to build 40000+ mini stade de france French are right to build new stadium but I am sorry there's no point in building ridiculiously undersized stadiums... Grenoble as no doubt the crowd capacity to build at least A 35000 seats stadium extendable to 40000 and they are building a 22000 not 25000 stadium it's just retarded... How do you fundrase money with such a thing. Tickets money is the key to start building a club... especially in France where corporations are reluctant to invest heavy amount of money in sports... Besides Ligue 1 would be better off with only 18 or better 16 clubs with all the necessary structures: stadium, coaching staff, training center, marketing department, merchandising strategies... Look at Lens this is a 16000 Habitants city with more the 30000 season ticket holders, because the stadium is big enough they where able to attract Orange as main sponsor a few years ago. If cities are planning new stadiums they should do them according to the finals goal of their clubs not just to build a stadium... By the way the new Montpellier rugby stadium will be 12000 seats plus another 3000 "standing positions". Last point England and Italy are the exemple that stock market is not the solution to raise the money they want ... My point of view is that only Lyon can access it oncce the new stadium will be built, on the condition that they still do good in the championship and also on their merchandising activities which are now booming. Look at lasio the only reason they are still in serie A is that having them in serie B would create tremendous riots... Chelsea is ok thanks to Abramovitch, Manchester went out of the market because the Yankee got in... Are the others doing good not? so much! As to comparing european attendences that is just unfair if you don't balance your results; the number of games per season, the number of teams per championship, size of the stadium... it's easy to say england or Italy as the best crowd, in this case I'll just take the north corean championship... You have six stadium above 100000 seats... My point is England has the first championship in Europe, followed by Spain, Germany, Italy and France... Best crowd!? If all stadium in scotland were like Celtic Park and Ibrox we would all shut up!

February 22nd, 2006, 03:49 PM	#43
GNU Gnuru Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brave GNU World Posts: 2,775 Likes (Received): 19	new ground for Nizza It will have a capacity of 32k

February 22nd, 2006, 05:21 PM	#45
Mekky II BANNED Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,810 Likes (Received): 3	Marseille stadium with 80 000 seats : It's sad the PSG doesn't want to take Stade de France, there would be 2 stadiums of 80 000 seats in first french league, but it's not impossible that PSG changes its mind, and "offer" Parc des Princes to the rugby club Stade Français ! Also i am pretty sure Lille will built a stadium with a retractable roof like cardiff or amsterdam, it would be the first of this type in France

February 23rd, 2006, 01:26 AM	#46
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,043 Likes (Received): 27	PSG will not go to SDF. They have a lease for the Parc des Princes they built their HQ on one side with restaurant, superstore conference center... Parc des Prince is nicer thant SDF which is too cold from my point of view... Besides although it's not so old they did not think of any concession shops - other than food corners when they built it - so the club would have to modify it anyway... Recently the club was thinking about a roof but it was to pricey 50 M euros... And they want to build luxury suite too As to the Stade Francais rugby team they will have Jean Bouin rebuilt by 2012 according to the mayor Delanoe..with Lagardere involved in the project it will be a 20000 all seater entirely covered. According to the last rumor lille new stadium would be an arena type stadium with 50000 seats and if lucky they would start building in 2007 it would be near Lille Airport

February 23rd, 2006, 06:02 PM	#52
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,043 Likes (Received): 27	exact a long long time ago Besides PSG could easily put another few thousands seats on the lower part of the stadium... They just don't have the money and also they have a huge fan problem. Anyway as a Parisian born I don't really like SDF for football, it's great for rugby especially when scotish and irish fans are in town. But for football it's just cold... Besides the psg is really at home in Parc des Princes... I wouldn't mind going there for Champions League games, if Paris was to one day get back in the big league. But at the moment it's unlikely this team has been in a huge rebuild process for the last 5 years and so far it looks like they aren't finished yet. I hope that Lyon stadium will be more of a 60 something than a 50000...I want Lille to do us a nice covered arena SDF with a track for the athletic meeting. Lens will upgrade the main stands soon and they could reach the 50000too... Nice should just build the 40000 seats directly instead of doing just the 32000. I am pissed off at the Grenoble stadium.

February 26th, 2006, 08:39 PM	#56
Anthony France Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 18 Likes (Received): 0	In comparaison (project/club) Marseille:80000 Lyon:60000 Lille:55000 Paris:45000 Manchester:75000 Arsenal:60000 Liverpool:60000 Newcastle:52000

February 28th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#57
bubomb BANNED Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,094 Likes (Received): 0	Do the hardcore supporters of 'FC Nancy' go by the name of 'The Nancy Boys'?

March 1st, 2006, 12:28 AM	#58
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,043 Likes (Received): 27	lol hum no I don't remember hearinf that name ever... But I don't think they would mind

March 1st, 2006, 12:44 AM	#59
Neda Say Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,043 Likes (Received): 27	lol hum no I don't remember hearinf that name ever... But I don't think they would mind

March 1st, 2006, 07:00 AM	#60
*3tmk* Dennis Rodman Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pyongyang Posts: 10,298	Well to be honest I doubt PSG needs a bigger stadium at this point. But if they do manage to get some momentum in the next few years and attendance rises, I think they should leave the Parc. I'm an avid PSG fan, and as much as I liked going to the Parc, I find it ugly, from the inside-out. I prefer to see it destroyed, and they should rebuild a new modern stadium. But the problem is, as you mentioned, they built the offices outside, and the lounges, the restaurant, etc. and I doubt they want to tear it all down now.