WNY Non-Development Discussion

[bjfan82]

Originally Posted by Jerome

The 471 Metro's in the world with more than 1,000,000 people as of 2007. Check out #411 DT!

http://www.citypopulation.de/World.html

umm how about checking out #297? The only city that matters in this thread...BUFFALO

Buffalo is tied with Belgrade and Raleigh.

Nashy is number 308, not bad

[homestar]

That's interesting how they included St Catherines... It shows how much bigger our real metro would be if that international border wasn't there.

[DallasTexan]

Why don't they include Rochester and Erie too?!

[bjfan82]

why would they? Erie & Rochester aren't attached at the hip to Buffalo like the NF Ont region of Canada.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by bjfan82

umm how about checking out #297? The only city that matters in this thread...BUFFALO

Buffalo is tied with Belgrade and Raleigh.

Nashy is number 308, not bad

I figured everyone would find that one. Interestingly - or not - I have a world atlas from 1975 that lists Buffalo/St Catherines as number 129 in the world. Of course there are an awful lot more third world cities on the 2007 list.I don't know if that is because better info exists now or if it is due to migration from the countryside to the cities. I suspect it is a bit of both,

[rick1016]

That's bullshit. There's no way Miami metro is bigger than Toronto. Same with Detroit and Philly. And the numbers are wrong as well...Toronto has at least 5.5 Million by now. And that's just the Greater Toronto area, not the Golden Horshoe.

Actually, come to think of it, what if Toronto and Buffalo formed a giant international super-city! We'd take over the rest of North America! Muahahahaha!!!!

[Sabretooth]

I saw once that the Golden Horseshoe, I think with the definition of including Buffalo, Rochester, Kitchener, etc. was the 5th largest population center in North America.

Behind...Mexico City, NYC, LA, and Chicago I would assume.

The neighboring Cleveland-Pittsburgh "composite" metro has to be pretty high up there as well.

[DallasTexan]

Originally Posted by bjfan82

why would they? Erie & Rochester aren't attached at the hip to Buffalo like the NF Ont region of Canada.

Why include St. Cats? It's completely independent of Buffalo. Sure, they get Buffalo TV and radio, but I get London (ON) radio and TV in Cleveland.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by rick1016

That's bullshit. There's no way Miami metro is bigger than Toronto. Same with Detroit and Philly. And the numbers are wrong as well...Toronto has at least 5.5 Million by now. And that's just the Greater Toronto area, not the Golden Horshoe.

Actually, come to think of it, what if Toronto and Buffalo formed a giant international super-city! We'd take over the rest of North America! Muahahahaha!!!!

It is what it is and the results are as they are there is no bias against one place or another they just took an objective look at the world. If you on't agree with their definitions or calculations you can come up wth your own criteria to skew the results as you prefer. This list was just done by a group with no horses in the race.

[bjfan82]

Originally Posted by DallasTexan

Why include St. Cats? It's completely independent of Buffalo. Sure, they get Buffalo TV and radio, but I get London (ON) radio and TV in Cleveland.

They interact with our region as if the invisible international border wasn't there. Rochester and Erie both have a good 40 mile buffer zone of forest separating them from Buffalo.

[rick1016]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

I saw once that the Golden Horseshoe, I think with the definition of including Buffalo, Rochester, Kitchener, etc. was the 5th largest population center in North America.

Behind...Mexico City, NYC, LA, and Chicago I would assume.

The neighboring Cleveland-Pittsburgh "composite" metro has to be pretty high up there as well.

Actually, Toronto is already the fifth largest in North America. Like you said, right after Mexico City, NYC, LA and Chicago.

In fact, if the Canadian government counted the Toronto area like the US government counts US cities, it would have an even higher population.

[rick1016]

Originally Posted by Jerome

It is what it is and the results are as they are there is no bias against one place or another they just took an objective look at the world. If you on't agree with their definitions or calculations you can come up wth your own criteria to skew the results as you prefer. This list was just done by a group with no horses in the race.

My mistake. I must be ignorant and jealous as I live next to the world's superpower.

[Sabretooth]

Ends up Lockport General won that MRI machine despite finishing 3rd...

How many times did you vote?

[WIGS]

Originally Posted by DallasTexan

Why include St. Cats? It's completely independent of Buffalo. Sure, they get Buffalo TV and radio, but I get London (ON) radio and TV in Cleveland.

The head of Geography and Planning at Buff State is a fellow Canadian who lives in St. Kitts (no one calls it St. Cats :P). There are also 3 other professors in the department (and the department is rather small) that are Canadian. My buddy works for an architectural firm in Amherst and one of the key people is a Canadian that also commutes everyday from St. Catharines.

DT, there's more cross-border interaction (besides shopping) than you think or know.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by rick1016

My mistake. I must be ignorant and jealous as I live next to the world's superpower.

Understood

[DallasTexan]

Originally Posted by WIGS

The head of Geography and Planning at Buff State is a fellow Canadian who lives in St. Kitts (no one calls it St. Cats :P). There are also 3 other professors in the department (and the department is rather small) that are Canadian. My buddy works for an architectural firm in Amherst and one of the key people is a Canadian that also commutes everyday from St. Catharines.

DT, there's more cross-border interaction (besides shopping) than you think or know.

Yes, but all of that construction, homebuilding, etc. certainly isn't because of the Buffalo metro. Fort Erie? Yes, I would consider that part of the Buffalo metro.... but St. Catharines is a stretch.

How ironic! I'm flying into Chicago O'Hare tonight from Houston. Too bad steel is in D'troit!

[Sabretooth]

Not development in the truest sense, but this is so good it just has to be fattening... So good that spinning off the canal system wasn't even a recommendation!!!!

Thruway toll hikes are not needed, audit by state comptroller says
Comptroller says increases should be stopped
By Tom Precious - NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
Updated: 01/27/08 8:21 AM

ALBANY — Thruway toll hikes scheduled to begin this summer are not needed and should be stopped while the authority running the highway system defers non-essential construction projects and looks for other ways to raise and save money, according to an audit being released this afternoon by State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

“It’s easy to raise tolls, but the Thruway Authority should take a hard look in the mirror before it pushes another toll hike on New Yorkers,” the comptroller said in a written statement. “Toll hikes are not warranted until the Thruway Authority examines its own spending.”

Although not one of the recommendations in the audit, DiNapoli will call for removal of the state’s canal system — which has cost $1 billion since the early 1990s — from the Thruway Authority. But DiNapoli so far does not say how the state this year could afford the transfer of the canal system back to the budget’s general fund.

The audit, which was obtained by The Buffalo News, states that the Thruway Authority has understated future federal funding, hasn’t shaved its own spending enough, and needs to better prioritize the capital projects it wants drivers to fund with the toll hikes that are supposed to occur over the next two years.

Thruway officials, in a sharp rebuke of the audit’s conclusions, said DiNapoli’s suggestions would jeopardize highway safety and slow the agency’s attempts to reduce congestion along the key transportation system.

Between now and 2012, Thruway toll payers will spend $395 million toward the state’s canal — money that could avert a toll increase. But with the state facing a $4.4 billion deficit this year, there is little appetite on the part of Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer or lawmakers to end the 1990s fiscal gimmick.

DiNapoli’s audit was requested by some legislators, including State Sen. Dale M. Volker, R-Depew, and Rep. Brian Higgins, D-Buffalo, but it is nonbinding on the Thruway Authority. The Thruway board, controlled by Pataki- era appointees, has given preliminary approval for a series of hikes — set to begin in July with an increase in tolls for E-ZPass customers.

Between 2008 and 2010, E-ZPass customers are supposed to see a cumulative increase of 28 percent in tolls for passenger cars and a 21 percent increase for commercial users.

Cash customers on the Thruway will see tolls go up 10 percent in two phases beginning next January under the authority’s plan that is expected to get final board approval in the spring.

Yet the toll hike could further harm the upstate economy, DiNapoli said.

“The Thruway Authority manages the roads well but could manage its finances a whole lot better,” he said.

Findings called unrealistic

In a written response contained in the audit, Thruway officials said DiNapoli’s findings are unrealistic and would produce just a percentage of the savings or revenues he suggests. To do what he wants, according to Thruway Executive Director Michael Fleischer, would require either a $1 billion reduction in the $2.1 billion planned for Thruway improvements or laying off one-third of the 3,400 Thruway employees.

DiNapoli’s recommendation of no toll increase would result in “rapidly deteriorating road and bridge conditions and significant declines in levels of service,” Fleischer wrote.

“The impacts of either of these two options would lead to dramatic reductions in the safety of the Thruway’s customers, violate the authority’s covenants with its bond holders and cost the state thousands of construction jobs,” he wrote.

The Thruway Authority in 2005 approved a $2.7 billion capital construction program with 343 individual projects — $2.1 billion for the highway and the rest for equipment and construction along the canal system. But with rising gasoline prices, traffic along the system has been below projections and resulted in less revenue.

To keep its capital plan on track, Thruway officials say they have no choice but to raise tolls — to bring in an extra $520 million between 2008 and 2012.

But DiNapoli, who was urged to enter the scene by lawmakers and others, says the Thruway has not looked to other alternatives. His audit did not review the 10 percent toll hike that kicked in earlier this month, which was previously approved.

The audit states the authority needs to have “more realistic estimates” of future federal highway payments to the agency. Thruway officials estimate only $4.9 million annually from Washington in future years, when it should bank on about $125 million by 2012 based on past payments, the audit states. Thruway officials say such forecasting is risky and beyond its control.

DiNapoli also called for deferring 59 “non-essential” construction projects, such as new E-ZPass lanes and noise barriers and construction of State Police and maintenance buildings. In all, $160 million in such projects — “useful” but not vital — could be put off until after 2012.

The Thruway director, however, responded that deferring the projects would jeopardize safety and congestion- relief efforts, such as highwayspeed E-ZPass lanes planned for Williamsville.

Moreover, Fleischer said DiNapoli’s numbers are inflated. Taking $160 million out of the capital plan would only reduce about $39 million in debt service funding until 2012 — because the program is bonded over 30 years. And that $160 million is a small portion of the $520 million the Thruway wants to raise in tolls to fund the projects, he said.

Even if he agreed with all of DiNapoli’s ideas, which he doesn’t, Fleischer said they total only about $70 million in savings.

For instance, he said DiNapoli’s idea that it hire a collection agency to go after E-ZPass deadbeats — which the agency is doing — will only result in about $4 million in additional funds.

Containing the budget

DiNapoli said the Thruway Authority also could do more to contain its operating budget, which is expected to grow at 3.5 percent annually.

DiNapoli’s report highlights the financial problems the Thruway inherits from non-Thruway operations, such as the canal system and two downstate highway systems. Since 1990, the non-Thruway functions have cost toll payers $1 billion.

“Unquestionably, if the Authority could have used that revenue for Thruway purposes, the current financial condition would be stronger,” the audit found.

Still, DiNapoli, a former Assembly member from Long Island, did not box in his former colleagues or Spitzer by recommending they move the non- Thruway functions back into the state’s general fund as groups such as the American Automobile Association and trucking associations have urged.

The audit called on the Thruway board to review its findings before advancing any toll plan.

“We believe that New York State motorists and the public in general deserve nothing less,” the audit states.

Thruway officials have said they purposely planned their toll hike program in phases over the next couple of years. That way, if the economy improves and gasoline prices fall resulting in more toll revenues, the board could revisit the issue and put off future toll increases.

The Thruway collected $554.4 million in tolls in 2006. Cars, which account for 85 percent of the traffic, composed 60 percent of the toll revenues.

tprecious@buffnews.com

Not that it affects me because I started boycotting the Thruway with my post-New Years' trip to South Carolina. If their capital maintenance program was so crucial to help safety and congestion issues as Fleischer says, I-90 between I-190 and I-290 would've been widened to at least 4 lanes years ago.

[Sabretooth]

Too bad curses are just convenient bullshit excuses for one's own failures, huh?

Buffalo and Bills get spook-proofed
The curse is lifted, is mediums’ message
By Harold McNeil and Matthew Spina NEWS STAFF REPORTERS
Updated: 01/27/08 7:12 AM

Attention Buffalo: Any gray clouds today are only meteorological, not metaphysical. The curse has been lifted.

It happened Saturday night, when a crew of mediums and witches and assorted believers pooled their positive energy and threw off the spell.

They forever ensured that no Super Bowl field goal ever again swings wide right, no more factories close, and champagne drips from Lord Stanley’s Cup right here at Lake Erie’s edge.

Chisel this date in Buffalo history: Jan. 26, 2008. That’s when renowned paranormalist Mason C. Winfield III uttered this chant: “Put off your aches, your pains, your ills . . . God bless our Sabres and our Bills.”

In the still of a snowy Buffalo night, the region’s collective fortunes changed inside the historic and probably haunted old Main Street theater now known as the Town Ballroom.

About 100 pioneers, in a “Throw off the Curse” party conceived by Winfield, toasted the ghosts in a benefit for the Landmark Society. Then, amid psychic readings, tours of the building’s spooky bowels and small talk while drinking spirits, they declared a new day.

The roots of the former curse were sunk before the Bills lost four straight Super Bowls, and even before President William McKinley succumbed to an assassin’s bullet at the Pan- American Expo in 1901.

Winfield, who often leads ghost walks in East Aurora, speculates the curse haunts Buffalo as the terminus of the Erie Canal. “The Indians were suspicious of the Erie Canal, because it ended up disrupting ancient burial grounds, battlefields and other sacred grounds, and they think you really shouldn’t be doing that,” he said.

Or, he theorized, maybe the Seneca chief Red Jacket cursed the folk of Buffalo because of their treatment of the Senecas. Said Winfield: “Red Jacket say to men in white, the kick will always go wide right.” Or not.

Seneca archivist David George-Shongo, invited by Winfield to provide perspective, tried to be a good sport about the theory. But nothing in Seneca teachings would attribute a curse to Red Jacket. In fact, George-Shongo said he’s not sure there even was a curse.

But then, what happened at the Town Ballroom Saturday night?

Maybe it’s about the power of positive thinking, mixed with the energy of so many people, said Mary Ann Long, a medium. “We are releasing that thought of a curse, to even everything out again in Buffalo, New York,” she said.

So it’s about the way we think about ourselves?

“Any negativity that’s in the Buffalo area, that is being thwarted,” Long said. “We can make change occur.”

hmcneil@buffnews.comand mspina@buffnews.com

If the "curse" was borne by the treatment of the European "white man" towards the Native Americans, I'd hate to see what's in store for the rest of the country. We had it good, quite frankly.

The real "curse" is being invoked by the residents of the Park Lane Condos and those who aspire to their position.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

If you were truly regionalistic, you'd change you sig to read "Buffalo-Niagara - ..."

I would change it but Niagara County is simply not in the same league as Erie County when it comes to killing EVERY plan for progress and development. There are some obstructionists to be sure but nothing that even approaches the levels seen in Buffalo. Witness Seneca Niagara Casino developed without lawsuits now employing over 3,000. Witness 81 Main Street in Lockport, full block infill now over 90% leased, Witness the AES Lakeport Project on Lake Ontario now sailing through the review process. Even a lowly Mc Donald's in Lockport went from announcement to opening in less than 1 year.

Regarding the Oz project last I heard it was awaiting some sort of NYS DEC ruling on potential wetlands issues. That was in early November have not hard anything since.

The City of Buffalo on the other hand - lawsuit to stop Seneca Casino from locating in Cheektowaga, then another to stop them from building in Buffalo, lawsuit to stop Elmwood Hotel, lawsuit to stop rte 5 connector, lawsuit to stop 11 Court Street, lawsuit to stop inner harbor project, lawsuit to stop Ethanol Plant, lawsuit to stop zoo move to first ward, lawsuit to stop Children's Hospital from moving, then another threatened to stop them from expanding, lawsuit to stop Gates Circle condo's, threatened lawsuit to stop LBJ apartment conversion, threatened lawsuit to stop outer harbor (Opus) project and on and on. It's a total disgrace. The only projects allowed to go forward in Buffalo are those where favored developers are given governmental subsidies or projects that are outright taxpayer funded.

When the rest of the region begins to match the insanity of Buffalo I will change my tag line - and cry!

[homestar]

Guys.... this stuff doesn't belong in this thread.
Use the Non-Development thread please.