WNY Non-Development Discussion

[DallasTexan]

Chicago is such a beautiful city when you've got a nice corner view. I would love to move here.





Trump is looking good.



The flight up here was quite nice too! A nice meal...



Complimentary after dinner drinks...



And of course, the no crying baby section.

[Sabretooth]

And I bet you were the only passenger who actually took a picture of the meal! Pepperidge Farm knows!

You want crying babies - go to Pizza Hut. Especially the one in Concord. I swear, something about that place renders parents incapable of controlling their children. Of course the specter of Child Services coming and taking the kid if you lay a finger on them or scold them probably doesn't help.

[DallasTexan]

No, the lesbian across the aisle did too.

I love www.airlinemeals.net

[ECoastTransplant]

Sheraton on the Chicago River DT?

[DallasTexan]

Of course. Top floor - suite 3401. Call meh!

[Evergrey]

New York Times did a nice travel piece on my favorite ski town.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/travel/27next.htm

Ellicottville, N.Y.: The Ski Town That Aspen Used to Be Like


Dan Cappellazzo for The New York Times
Holiday Valley, a ski resort in Ellicottville, N.Y., 55 miles south of Buffalo and a world away from ski-town glamour.



By MELINDA MILLER
Published: January 27, 2008

WHEN the travel writer and broadcaster Lowell Thomas visited tiny Ellicottville in New York’s westernmost corner some 50 years ago, he called it “the Aspen of the East,” a flattering comparison to a favorite Rocky Mountain town.

In the decades since, the Aspen of the West became, well, Aspen, while Ellicottville stayed a quaint, rural town even as more and more outsiders discovered the wonders of its winters.

Today Ellicottville is on the rise, one of only two genuine ski towns in New York State (Lake Placid is the other). It was ranked No. 5 by Ski magazine in its 2007 list of top resorts in the East, thanks to its two growing ski areas and the Victorian-era village of gingerbread porches and narrow brick storefronts.

The 1,400-acre Holiday Valley ski resort (716-699-2345; www.holidayvalley.com), celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, and its neighbor, the equally large private ski resort of HoliMont (open to the public Monday through Friday; 716-699-2320; www.holimont.com), fan out on the flat-topped, tree-covered ridges above the village, where the slopes hold tight to the lake effect snows that blow off Erie to the west.

The skiing isn’t Alpine but there’s a lot of variety for all abilities. Jane Eshbaugh, Holiday Valley marketing director, says the breakdown is roughly 30 percent each for beginner, intermediate and advanced runs, and unlike resorts at 9,000 feet in the Rockies, there’s a lot of night skiing, since the temperature doesn’t plummet after dark.

The population of Ellicottville, about 55 miles south of Buffalo, swells by the thousands in the winter with daytrippers and weekenders from Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toronto and Rochester, all within a five-hour drive. There is no airport. The town center has only one traffic light, and cellphone service can be dicey, but when it’s time to get up the ski hill, a high-speed quad can get you there. Après-ski, several local spas offer such services as basalt hot-stone massages and herbal facials.

The village itself is in transition, with tourism and a still-thriving vacation-home market causing some angst in certain quarters. Longtime residents are experiencing property-tax sticker shock as their home values skyrocket, said the former Town Supervisor Norm Stocker, who lost his bid for re-election in November.

“That’s why I’m out of a job,” said Mr. Stocker, adding that the taxes haven’t slowed a booming market in luxury vacation homes, many going to Canadians.

But the atmosphere in E’ville, as its friends call it, remains downright down home. The only thing like a chain store among the restaurants, boutiques and galleries is Watson’s Chocolates, a family business with other shops around Buffalo.

Tim Hunter, a massage therapist, said he left New York City corporate life behind four years ago, taking over a spa called Earth Worn Body Company (9 Monroe Street; 716-699-2508; www.earthwornbodyco.com). Small-town life nurtured his sensibilities in the same way his customers unwind with a pomegranate facial scrub. “If I’m busy and someone wants a service we don’t have, I send them to Oasis,” another local day spa, he said. “Everyone is very supportive of each other, during the slow season especially.”

Slow is not the problem this time of year. Despite a warm and nearly snowless start last winter season, the resort reported having 470,000 visitors. The year before, like this season, saw earlier snow and brought in more than half a million guests. To keep up, Holiday Valley finished nearly $3 million in improvements to its properties before opening for the current season. A new quad chairlift serves three new runs (bringing total lifts and tows to 13, with 56 runs and trails for 28 total miles of skiing). The Rail Fun Park, one of four terrain parks for snowboarders, was rebuilt, even after being ranked in the top 15 in the East by Ski magazine’s readers. Its pipe has a 13-foot vertical slope and is 250 feet long; the new Fox Fire set is 1,000 feet of tables, rails and boxes, made so the growing number of boarders can move up a level.

Near the base, the Inn at Holiday Valley gave all its guest rooms decorating makeovers, with a homey, New England look. The lobby, with its soaring curved center staircase, is a cozy hangout in the evening with a fire burning and tables set up for board games near the indoor-outdoor swimming pool.

“It’s not the latest technology — it’s more about kicking back and hanging out with your family,” Ms. Eshbaugh said, summing up the whole atmosphere at Holiday Valley, which was founded half a century ago by friends in the Ellicottville Ski Club who saw a hill that got a lot of snow and put their clubhouse in the middle of it.

On the slopes, lift tickets are a bargain compared with New England and the West. Prices range from $52 for eight hours on weekends to $30 to ski after 4 p.m. during the week (runs are open until 10), with rates at HoliMont generally less.

Other recreation can still be a cheap date. Cross-country skiers and snowshoers have free run of the resort’s golf course, Ms. Eshbaugh said, where a snowcat packs a 10K track, and they can buy an inexpensive two-ride lift ticket to reach a 4.5-kilometer ridge trail that gives trailblazers access to hundreds of acres of state forest.

There are nearly two dozen restaurants in and around the village with a handful of bars continuing the party into the night with live music throughout the week. Balloons (20 Monroe Street; 716-699-4162; www.balloonsrestaurant.com) has dancing, too.

About half the restaurants are burger, wing and salad places. At the higher end, expect what is called “casual fine dining,” meaning they will serve you intriguing Mediterranean pasta and scallop salad on a paper place mat.

At the Gin Mill (20 Washington Street; 716-699-2530; www.ellicottvilleginmill.com), comfort food tops the menu, and almost all lunch dishes are in the $6 to $10 range. There’s a choice of burgers, including ostrich — “People order it because they think it’s healthy,” according to the server — along with specials like the roasted-garlic broiled haddock. There’s live music on weekends, a game room in the back for kids and a fun-house mirror in the ladies room.

Tips Up Cafe (32 East Washington Street; 716-699-2136) serves fresh seafood ($15 to $20 range) and steaks (a 16-ounce Delmonico is $21.95), although tired skiers can carbo-load on spaghetti for as little as $9. Four homemade salad dressings come in their own cruets with each salad.

Nowhere gets more in the spirit of the area than Ellicottville Brewing Company (28A Monroe Street; 716-699-2537; www.ellicottvillebrewing.com), where a sampler of five four-ounce micro brews ($5) is served on a Brew ski — a real ski.

Shopping in the village belies its comparison to Aspen, with most of the commerce tucked into four blocks, including a gas station, a grocery store and a lumber company. Although there’s no furrier or Bulgari in sight, shoppers can pick up the latest boot designs from Ugg or a $300 Brighton handbag at Daff, the closest thing to a Rocky Mountain-style boutique (17 Washington Street; 716-699-2293), or objets d’art and one-of-a-kind jewelry at Earth Arts (24 Washington Street; 716-699-2169; www.eartharts.com).

There are three full-service ski shops in town besides those at the resorts, and the cluster of shops carries most necessities.

The shops and the Quality Markets grocery are an easy walk from anywhere in the one-square-mile village, which is a good thing. Holiday Valley runs a free shuttle to its Holiday Valley Tubing Company (716-699-8823) on Bryant Hill Road, and from its mountain rental properties to the resort center. Otherwise, there is no public transportation around Ellicottville.

For Aspenites accustomed to door-to-door delivery via limo or private jet, it may seem primitive. For the spiritual descendants of the Ellicottville Ski Club, who once arrived by train and sleigh, it is just keeping it real.

DISCOVERED BUT UNSPOILED

The Inn at Holiday Valley (Holiday Valley Road and Route 219; 716-699-2345; www.holidayvalley.com) has rooms starting at $122.50 a person per night weekdays and at $174.75 a person per night weekends, double occupancy; suites have fireplaces, microwaves and a mini-fridge.

Prices include lift tickets and Continental breakfast. Rooms have exterior corridors and guests can walk to the lift. There is small spa and indoor-outdoor year-round pool.

The Ellicottville Wingate by Wyndham (11 Mill Street; 716-699-6000; www.ellicottvillewingateinn.com) opened two years ago in the heart of Ellicottville and is an easy walk from local shops and restaurants. Rooms start at $129 weekdays, $249 on weekends during ski season, including breakfast. Suites have fireplaces; all rooms have microwaves and mini fridges. There are an indoor pool, Jacuzzi and workout room. Ski packages include tickets for HoliMont.

The Sugar Pine Lodge (6158 Jefferson Street; 716-699-4855; www.sugarpinelodge.com) has five private suites, four with two rooms, with fireplaces (one suite accommodates families with children); breakfast is included. Ski weekends require a two-night stay; there is shuttle service to Holiday Valley. Winter rates start at $125 weekdays and $185 on weekends.

[ECoastTransplant]

Originally Posted by DallasTexan

Of course. Top floor - suite 3401. Call meh!

I'm sending over a pizza and an escort.

[Sabretooth]

I drove though Ellicottville for the first time (that I remember, last time I'd been through was a loooooooong time ago) and at 4:30 AM it was beautiful.

Originally Posted by DallasTexan

No, the lesbian across the aisle did too.

I love www.airlinemeals.net

Must be something with you people.

[atypical]

Originally Posted by Jerome

I would change it but Niagara County is simply not in the same league as Erie County when it comes to killing EVERY plan for progress and development. There are some obstructionists to be sure but nothing that even approaches the levels seen in Bu8ffalo. Witness Seneca Niagara Casino developed withot lawsuits now employing over 3,000. Witness 81 Main Street in Lockport, full block infill now over 90% leased, Witness the AES Lakeport Project on Lake Ontario now sailing through the review process. Even a lowly Mc Donald's in Lockport went from announcement to opening in less than 1 year.

Regarding the Oz project last I heard it was awaiting some sort of NYS DEC ruling on potential wetlands issues. That was in early November have not hard anything since.

The City of Buffalo on the other hand - lawsuit to stop Seneca Casino from locating in Cheektowaga, then another to stop them from building in Buffalo, lawsuit to stop Elmwood Hotel, lawsuit to stop rte 5 connector, lawsuit to stop 11 Court Street, lawsuit to stop inner harbor project, lawsuit to stop Ethanol Plant, lawsuit to stop zoo move to first ward, lawsuit to stop Children's Hospital from moving, then another threatened to stop them from expanding, lawsuit to stop Gates Circle condo's, threatened lawsuit to stop LBJ apartment conversion, threatened lawsuit to stop outer harbor (Opus) project and on and on. It's a total disgrace. The only projects allowed to go forward in Buffalo are those where favored developers are given governmental subsidies or projects that are outright taxpayer funded.

When the rest of the region begins to match the insanity of Buffalo I will change my tag line - and cry!

Two words: Aqua Falls

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by atypical

Two words: Aqua Falls

That's just silly. Aqua Falls was not stopped by a municipality nor was it stopped by an obstructionist lawsuit. It failed because of an inept developer just like the Issa Tower failed in Buffalo. And you will note that I did not mention the Issa Tower in my response nor did I mention the E-Zone. I was referring to obstructions placed in the way of development by government and/or citizens. Every town has it's share of inept developers. That is a seperate issue.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by homestar

Guys.... this stuff doesn't belong in this thread.
Use the Non-Development thread please.

Sorry, you are right I will try to do so in the future.

[DallasTexan]

Originally Posted by ECoastTransplant

I'm sending over a pizza and an escort.

sigh. I wish - I have to fly home tonight

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by rick1016

Actually, Toronto is already the fifth largest in North America.

Of course we all know that's only when they extend the region through NY State up to and including the Rochester MSA. Without that extension Toronto is clearly in the 5-6 million range - far from number 5

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

New York Times did a nice travel piece on my favorite ski town.

I saw Ellicottville for the first time last April, when I drove a different way up to Buffalo so that I could take pictures of Olean, Salamanca, and Little Valley. I was so impressed with the little town that I wanted to take pictures of it, but it was starting to get dark. I decided to go back to Delaware that way, just to get pictures of Ellicottville. It was a good decision, because it happened to snow that morning, and so I got even better pictures than if I had taken any on my drive up, which was on a sunny and warmer-than-usual day.

The town was very nice to me, and while I haven't gone skiing in the Poconos in several years, I cannot think of any ski resort town in the Poconos. The only place that really comes close is Jim Thorpe, but that is more of a general outdoors sports town, and not a ski town.

My pictures of Ellicottville

[bjfan82]

DT why were you in Chicago? just for the sake of going there?

[WIGS]

^bjfan, because Birmingham sucks! don'tcha know?

[steel]

The population of Ellicottville, about 55 miles south of Buffalo, swells by the thousands in the winter with daytrippers and weekenders from Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toronto and Rochester, all within a five-hour drive. There is no airport.

Odd that no one from Buffalo goes to Holiday Valley.

Funny thing is this town is about a one hour drive from Buffalo Niagara Airport. You would think a travel story would mention that. This makes it sound like it is impossible to get to. It often takes one hour from O'Hare to Downtown Chicago

[Evergrey]

uhh... it mentions Ellicottville is FIFTY-FIVE MILES SOUTH OF BUFFALO in that section you quoted... I think it's pretty much implicit that Buffalonians patronize Holiday Valley, Holimont and the businesses of Ellicottville.

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by DallasTexan

I get London (ON) radio and TV in Cleveland.

I don't, and I've tried. I live on the Heights, which theoretically means reception should be easier for me. I need my fix of curling on television when I'm not peeling rocks at the MCC.

A LOT of upper-middle-class Clevelanders have cottages and second homes in Chautauqua County.

[rick1016]

Originally Posted by Jerome

Of course we all know that's only when they extend the region through NY State up to and including the Rochester MSA. Without that extension Toronto is clearly in the 5-6 million range - far from number 5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto

The city of Toronto itself is the fifth largest:

With over 2.5 million residents,[1] it is the fifth-most populous municipality in North America

And, the Greater Toronto area:

The census metropolitan area (CMA) had a population of 5,113,149,[1] and the Greater Toronto Area had a population of 5,555,912 in the 2006 Census.[8]