daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 8th, 2014, 08:09 PM   #2061
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Should that ever happen, then Italy can prepare for lots of visits from Dutch people who have never ridden on a V250 but still want to.

I was one of the passenger on board of the maiden run on July 29th 2012. Lucky me..
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 9th, 2014, 08:37 AM   #2062
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Good luck to the Italian passengers. And first of all the safety systems must be changed and integrated into the train. That will probably be a challenge given that the integration of the original design wasn't all that great to start with.

Also another interesting point: Both the Netherlands and Belgium use high platforms, so I guess the V250 was designed for 760mm platforms. In Italy they use 550mm platforms.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 01:38 PM   #2063
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,467
Likes (Received): 6169

In Italy, safety is just a word without meaning. Like faith in the Netherlands.
__________________
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 02:09 PM   #2064
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
In Italy, safety is just a word without meaning. Like faith in the Netherlands.
May God have mercy on your soul.
__________________

Slagathor liked this post
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 03:19 PM   #2065
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,467
Likes (Received): 6169

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
May God have mercy on your soul.
Neither one of those nouns describe something that actually exists. You may as well have posted "Hocus pocus!"
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 03:33 PM   #2066
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

One thing that is a bit surprising about the NS website is that the English section is relatively small. Compared to NMBS which translates almost every word into English. It is surprising because the Dutch speak English more than any other non-English speaking country. It is not a major issue these days I suppose now we have Google Translate. It is also relatively easy to learn sufficient Dutch vocabulary to understand the Dutch language site.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #2067
Turick
Registered User
 
Turick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Torino
Posts: 170
Likes (Received): 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
In Italy, safety is just a word without meaning.
Says who?
Turick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #2068
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Slagathor just did. And he's right. That Distanza Di Securezza business is a myth in Italy.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #2069
Turick
Registered User
 
Turick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Torino
Posts: 170
Likes (Received): 189

No he is not. By saying that, he implied that in Italy there are no safety standards and effective controls, neither in the railway service and infrastructure nor in any other field. This is simply not true, therefore the "joke" doesn't work.

It is always silly to generalize. Driving in Italy may be challenging, especially for foreigners and especially in certain areas, but I would not use it as a proof.
I wouldn't say that in UK or in the Netherlands the word hygiene has no meaning because they do not know what a bidet is.

Btw, it's "distanza di sicurezza" (and there are no random capital letters in Italian )
Turick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 02:49 AM   #2070
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,017
Likes (Received): 6113

Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
One thing that is a bit surprising about the NS website is that the English section is relatively small. Compared to NMBS which translates almost every word into English. It is surprising because the Dutch speak English more than any other non-English speaking country. It is not a major issue these days I suppose now we have Google Translate. It is also relatively easy to learn sufficient Dutch vocabulary to understand the Dutch language site.
It's not at all surprising. It's because NMBS/SNCB has to put up with Belgium's language division. I mean even their official website now is 'belgianrail.be' .. in English because they probably couldn't settle on which acronym to use. So when they have to translate their whole website to the two other national languages, why not translate it to English as well while you're at it.

The NS website is just made in one language as their main market is Dutch speaking Dutch people. The NS English pages just feature the most critical information and gets rid of all the clutter most English speaking people (largely tourists) won't need.
__________________

Dooie_Amsterdammert liked this post
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 02:56 AM   #2071
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

Actually, as a foreigner living in Netherlands, I get the impression that one unintended consequence of high English proficiency among Dutch work force is that it ends up being less pro-active in translating general written materials, probably because there had been always someone around to help (I read that efforts for large-scale language instruction began at primary and secondary schools as early as 1958).

This can be noticed in many instances, not only transportation but also other small things like language menus on credit card machines and informational boards on not-so-famous museums with guided tours (which will often have guides with passable English whereas in France or Italy that would not be the case and you'd be handed a translated folder to self-guide yourself alone, for instance).
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

Dooie_Amsterdammert liked this post
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 09:11 AM   #2072
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

I get the impression that a lot of Dutch people aren't as highly English proficient as they think they are. There are several books about the gibberish the Dutch have uttered abroad.
This is however not just a Dutch problem, the large majority of people will never be as proficient in a foreign language as they are in their mother tongue. However being exposed to foreign languages from early age helps. Example: The Dutch use subtitling on television, whereas for instance the Germans use audio dubbing.

What's the big problem in all of this: In a foreign language, a lot of nuances will get lost because of umbiguous language. For instance in native English 'I like your idea!' often means the exact opposite. A non-native speaker would not understand this.

In technical projects it is these small nuances that cause problems. Any implied intention in text or speach could be lost in translation. I wonder how many projects have run into problems because of this.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 12:13 PM   #2073
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,467
Likes (Received): 6169

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turick View Post
No he is not. By saying that, he implied that in Italy there are no safety standards and effective controls, neither in the railway service and infrastructure nor in any other field. This is simply not true, therefore the "joke" doesn't work.

It is always silly to generalize. Driving in Italy may be challenging, especially for foreigners and especially in certain areas, but I would not use it as a proof.
I wouldn't say that in UK or in the Netherlands the word hygiene has no meaning because they do not know what a bidet is.

Btw, it's "distanza di sicurezza" (and there are no random capital letters in Italian )
Relax, dude, it was a joke.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 12:26 PM   #2074
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

That was trolling But there's a part of truth in that

Now excuse me, I have to go out and get killed by a moped speeding on a bike lane


Getting back to railways, does anyone have pics of the V250 with open doors? My guess is that it is compatible with 550 mm platforms, the entrance will just appear with one more step, as happens with many similar trains.
I think the whole train, even if designed for internal NL/B traffic, complies with TSI standards.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Slagathor liked this post
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 12:31 PM   #2075
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Actually, as a foreigner living in Netherlands, I get the impression that one unintended consequence of high English proficiency among Dutch work force is that it ends up being less pro-active in translating general written materials, probably because there had been always someone around to help (I read that efforts for large-scale language instruction began at primary and secondary schools as early as 1958).

This can be noticed in many instances, not only transportation but also other small things like language menus on credit card machines and informational boards on not-so-famous museums with guided tours (which will often have guides with passable English whereas in France or Italy that would not be the case and you'd be handed a translated folder to self-guide yourself alone, for instance).
Italy I don't know about, but despite trying to find reasons for some people to bash the French, the French are in fact very helpful in providing information in several languages. This includes road matrix information, on signs, instructions, museums, public transport...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 01:26 PM   #2076
Turick
Registered User
 
Turick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Torino
Posts: 170
Likes (Received): 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Relax, dude, it was a joke.
I know. Sometimes a joke is not funny to everybody, though.
It was the patronising connotation (also of the other response) that bothered me, but I don't want to make a fuss over that joke.

Amici come prima*



*Italian idiomatic expression for "no hard feelings", literally "[let's be] friends as [we were] before"
__________________

Slagathor liked this post
Turick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #2077
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
It's not at all surprising. It's because NMBS/SNCB has to put up with Belgium's language division. I mean even their official website now is 'belgianrail.be' .. in English because they probably couldn't settle on which acronym to use. So when they have to translate their whole website to the two other national languages, why not translate it to English as well while you're at it.
Another thing is that the Dutch (at least those in the business of designing things) seem to put more value in attractive design, often at the expense of content and function.
I've followed the evolution of both the NS and the NMBS's websites, and noticed how the NS was user slicker, better designed, but the site of the NMBS had more useable content.
In the Netherlands architects build more to impress their peers than to please the people who actually end up living in their houses (the famous cube house in Rotterdam are a prime example), although that is now changing.
The same has happened with trains. Form trumps function. The koploper train sets and ICR cars may have an elegant profile, however that has been achieved at the expense of useable luggage racks...
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 06:10 PM   #2078
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

A thing I find user-disturbing in Dutch PT (not railways) is that vehicles must stop at the very end of the platform, while the platform itself is designed to suggest people should wait in the middle. So everyone has to go after the tram when it arrives, or has to stand in the rain because the shed is 20 meters apart...
Or maybe it's just an HTM thing?

This becomes ridiculous in Den Haag tram tunnel, because the platforms are somehow 3x longer than a tram (were they planning a metro there?), stairs are in the middle, and you have this enormous empty station with everyone sacked in the most remote corner of the platform, far from any access point...

I mean, I understand the logic of behavioural uniformity but the practical application isn't the best...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #2079
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,467
Likes (Received): 6169

Yes yes, I've been saying that for years.

It's especially annoying when you're running to catch the tram and you're approaching the platform from the rear. "Well, I guess I'm gonna have some extra running to do." and then you narrowly manage to hurl yourself at the backdoor of the tram just before it closes and frankly you would have been a lot less breathless and sweaty if Mr Lunatic up front didn't part-take in that ridiculous obsession of parking the nose of the tram past the front of the fvcking stop like he's lining up for a drag race whatareyoutryingtogivemeaheartattack... etc. etc. etc.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #2080
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The idea behind the long platform in the Haagse Tramtunnel is that they are able to cope with multiple trams, should there be a calamity such as a fire in the tunnel. This way, vehicle that are already in the tunnels can continue to the next platform and park close to the previous vehicle. This makes evacuation easier as the people on board the vehicle are close to exits as opposed to a tunnel which may get dark and a smoke trap.

Why tram drivers to the same on the streets is something which I can't answer, maybe they're trained like that so that tram stops can be used for multiple vehicles at the same time if spaced close together (such as near The Hague Centraal).

In the Rotterdam subway and on railway lines they have signs that indicate where trains of a given length should stop. Look for the diamond shaped signs (NS: blue, Rotterdam: white) with a number on them. They mark where a train consisting of the indicated amount of carriages should stop. If the particular length is not shown drivers should pick the next one, so that a 7 carriage train would stop at a sign labelled '8'.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium