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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:38 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Such a service would not be that much faster than the current IC. It would have a lot less customers though. There really isn't that much point for such a train.

Having more different stopping patterns also decreases the efficiency with which you can use your network. If you want to run trains every 10 minutes at regular intervals it helps a lot if they all stop at the same places.
Just put ETCS 2 or 3 in place and that can be done. Moreover, how can you state that there is no demand for such services. I know you are timetable-obsessed, which is ok, but from then to say that such trains would have far less costumers, it is an exaggeration, I'd say.

Usually long-distance express train has far less costumers per km than regional services. In the case of Netherlands, without any speed upgrading of the network, it would be possible to run a non-stop train from Sittard (in Limburg) to Amsterdam in less than 1h30, if it were non-stop. Today services take 2h10.

Ultimately every long-distance service has to preempt regional operations, but that is how is should be. Just drop the damn obsession with intervals, and make regional services adapt to long-distance trains that would be given preference.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Indeed. They should just integrate the whole service in the existing IC network. Have the normal Amsterdam - Rotterdam (and beyond) IC's travel on the line, and the trains will be full.
There is no rolling stock to cope with such demand, unless you "degrade" the railway to normal 160 km/h in a permanent basis (like they are doing temporarily while the Fyra stock is not delivered), but that would just jeopardize the very reason by which the project was done, and would slow down Thalys services too.

They need to charge a supplement, but a smaller one.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Usually long-distance express train has far less costumers per km than regional services. In the case of Netherlands, without any speed upgrading of the network, it would be possible to run a non-stop train from Sittard (in Limburg) to Amsterdam in less than 1h30, if it were non-stop. Today services take 2h10.
This could only be done if there were no other trains on the line. A direct Sittard - Amsterdam service would have to run in addition to existing services with more stops. This would mean that this train would have to overtake the other train, which needs extra infrastructure.
If you could fill such a train every hour than it becomes justifiable to invest in the needed infrastructure, but I doubt you could do that.

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Ultimately every long-distance service has to preempt regional operations, but that is how is should be. Just drop the damn obsession with intervals, and make regional services adapt to long-distance trains that would be given preference.
Having regional trains adapt to the long distance trains is exactly what NS is doing. It's what everyone is doing, except maybe Trenitalia.

The point is however that many long distance trains need the intermediate stops in order to be profitable. Combine that with the simple fact that having all trains adhere to the same stopping pattern makes capacity and infrastructure planning easier and you'll see that what NS does makes perfect sense.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Usually long-distance express train has far less costumers per km than regional services. In the case of Netherlands, without any speed upgrading of the network, it would be possible to run a non-stop train from Sittard (in Limburg) to Amsterdam in less than 1h30, if it were non-stop. Today services take 2h10.
I don't agree. Amsterdam-Sittard is 196 km. That would require an AVERAGE speed of 130 km/h, which is impossible on the current infrastructure. For example, you're not able to drive through Utrecht with a higher speed than 40 km/h. Therefore, non-stop services will have less time benefit than you might expect.

If I remember correctly, the Intercity Amsterdam-Maastricht-Liège-Luxemburg (once a day in summer) skipped some intercity stations. This train has been dissolved some years ago. And IIRC, the intercities Amsterdam-Berlin (then 4x/day) didn't call at Almelo and Apeldoorn a few years ago.

Another special service was the so-called "Civil Servants Express" (ambtenarenexpres) between Groningen and The Hague, which skipped Amersfoort. So non-stop Zwolle-Utrecht.

I can remember an item on tv news in the early 90s. The mayor of Amersfoort was upset about a plan in which (some) intercities would no longer call at Amersfoort. It sounds nowadays strange to me, but I can clearly remember.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
There is no rolling stock to cope with such demand, unless you "degrade" the railway to normal 160 km/h in a permanent basis (like they are doing temporarily while the Fyra stock is not delivered), but that would just jeopardize the very reason by which the project was done, and would slow down Thalys services too.
Not true, the fact that the speed is limited is due to incompatibilities with the ETCS equipment.
On the HSL between antwerp and the Netherlands, Thalys is allowed to go at 300km/h while the domestic train does only 160 km/h, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Also, in Belgium NMBS is upgrading its I6/I10 stock, maybe NS could do the same with the ICR stock, so they do the same as the NMBS with the line between Leuven and Liege (Thalys at 300, domestic at 200)
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Old December 8th, 2010, 08:28 PM   #205
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Hacker gets community service for faking transport cards

A 30-year-old man from Leiden has been given 60 hours community service and a suspended month jail term for forging at least 20 public transport smart cards.
The man, known as Erik van IJ, used a card reader and computer software to transfer information from a legal transport card to fake ones. He claims to have hacked the cards in order to show how weak their security is.

IJ is the first person to be found guilty of forging transport cards – the ov-chipkaart – since they were introduced.

source
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Old December 9th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #206
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The way they caught this guy was pretty interesting too... appearantly the TLS backend found out that fraudulent transactions were taking place, but instead of simply blacklisting the card they decided to track him (as he had a frequent home-work travel pattern) and wait for him to use his cloned OV-chipkaart at a terminal.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:27 AM   #207
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Major blow to new Bombardier Sprinters... 2/3 of them are BROKEN disrupting services in NL

I'm not entirely sure I read the article correctly, but apparently two thirds of Sprinter new fleet are broken and out of service due to winter conditions affecting their systems.

It's a major blow to NS services, which is then rushing crappy, noise and very old trains about to be retired to fill the gaps...

================
Tweederde nieuwe stoptreinen kapot
Tweederde van de 95 nieuwe sprinters van de NS zijn kapot. Dat bevestigt een woordvoerder van de NS tegenover ANP na eerdere berichtgeving van de NOS.

De nieuwe stoptreinen van Bombardier, een consortium van Siemens, zijn tijdens het winterse weer van de laatste weken stil komen te staan. Smeltwater van de sneeuw lijkt problemen te hebben veroorzaakt in de elektronica van de treinen. Maar definitief uitsluitsel kan de NS daar nog niet over geven. Meer dan dertig technici van Bombardier zijn in allerijl naar Nederland gekomen om de problemen op te lossen.

Volgens de vervoersmaatschappij hebben de problemen met de nieuwe sprinters geen gevolgen voor de dienstregeling. De oude stoptreinen, die de sprinters moesten vervangen, zijn ingezet op de trajecten waar door de defecten treinstellen uit zijn gevallen.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 01:57 PM   #208
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Quote:
It's a major blow to NS services, which is then rushing crappy, noise and very old trains about to be retired to fill the gaps...
But apparently able to work even when the sun isn't shining and everything is wet
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 08:10 PM   #209
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The already retired DDM1 double decker trains (pushed/pulled by a class 1800 loco) will be re-activated as a huge amount of Sprinter Light Trainsets are out of service due to snow related malfunctioning.

NOS mentioned that of 95 SLT's available to NS, only 10 are in service... which is a huge blow to NS indeed. The SLT trainsets were to be NS's answer to the new trains bought by Veolia, Arriva and others (mostly the GTW trainsets from Stadler): clean, light, fast, open and step-free access.

However, the trainsets are turning out to be a huge headache to passengers, train drivers, train managers and now upper management of NS:
- No toilets (NS has officially stated no more SLT will be ordered after delivery of the current order)
- Breaks down easily
- Train series that were punctual with the previous trains (DD-AR, Mat '64 or SGMm) are now delayed frequently
- Too little leg room
- Passengers feel unsafe
- Delivered way too late

The union for train drivers has gathered a list of complaints, which can be found here (in Dutch).

SLT is not the only trainset giving NS a headache, the V250 trains from AnsaldoBreda are still problematic as well. This shows a problem NS is having: the unability to order decent rolling stock. Perhaps this is due to the people in the NS headquarters having lost all touch with the outside world?

SLT is highly criticized for being a 'drawing board train', due to the lack of toilets and leg space... if even the staff apologizes for having an SLT you just know something is wrong...
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Old December 24th, 2010, 10:12 AM   #210
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Sorry, it is the 2400 series what you're talking about?
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Old December 24th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #211
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The SLT trains are numbered in both the 2400 series and the 2600 series. The 2400's consist of 4-car trainsets and are built by Bombardier, the 6-car trainsets are numbered in the 2600 and are built by Siemens.

Both the 2400 and the 2600 series have their share of problems, so they're not unique to either Bombardier or Siemens.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 08:16 PM   #212
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The SLT trains are numbered in both the 2400 series and the 2600 series.
I see, thanks!
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Old December 31st, 2010, 08:16 AM   #213
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However, the trainsets are turning out to be a huge headache to passengers, train drivers, train managers and now upper management of NS:
- No toilets (NS has officially stated no more SLT will be ordered after delivery of the current order)
These trains are meant for short journeys. I don't have details, but I doubt any official suggested route would involve anything like 45min in one of those trains. Maybe the Rotterdam-Hoek van Holland route. The question is that some people, out of laziness, prefer to take longer routes on Sprinters than change for an Intercity and arrive early. For instance, some passengers travel from Breda to Utrecht in a stoptrein instead of taking 2 Intercity just to avoid a connection at Den Bosch or Rotterdam - e.g., lazy.

Toilets are very expensive now that NS, rightfully, will not fit any open discharge toilet in its trains anymore.

Quote:
- Train series that were punctual with the previous trains (DD-AR, Mat '64 or SGMm) are now delayed frequently
Not necessarily related with rolling stock.

Quote:
- Too little leg room
This is definitively an issue with those trains.

Quote:
- Passengers feel unsafe
Says who? Why? This doesn't make sense at all. Frist, these trains are designed as open room, so you don't have that situation of a strange type sit in a compartment with your. Second, there are cameras (a lot of them) on those trains. Third, they are very well-lit. What would make these trains "unsafe"?
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Old December 31st, 2010, 08:31 AM   #214
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With many cars and sets damaged, NS announces temporary relief measures for January

70% of the fleet of new Sprinters have been damaged by winter conditions. It is more a design flaw than anything else, as those trains are rather new, many of them brand new.

On top of that, older rolling stock not yet "winterized" also suffered and a non-disclosed number of cars and EMUs are not available until they will be repaired.

Therefore, NS announced a set of measures to accommodate the shortcoming for the whole month of January:

- instead of cancelling trains, NS will run shorter trains in many routes until repaired sets/cars are put back to service. In most cases, this mean trains with half the capacity of usual ones. Overcrowd is expected and predicted at peak times.

- Fyra and ICE will be opened (the later only within Netherlands, of course) for passengers with common tickets without supplement.

- every passenger will be entitled to the off-peak 40% discount, regardless of possession of a discount plan/card


Of the measures above, I don't agree with opening ICEs without the supplement. There are not many of them running, and they are usually already half-full. It could end with stranded passengers between Utrecht and Amsterdam, compromising the high-quality travel experience ICE Intl. passengers have.

I also fear that controllers will become loose on avoiding people with 2nd class tickets spoiling 1st class users by sitting there. The only major advantage of 1st class hefty price difference in Netherlands is that it is far less crowded than 2nd class and almost always have seats available. This extra comfort of a less crowded seating area will become even more important when many trains are expected to be very crowded due to their shortening, so I hope NS keeps enforcing 1st class tickets on 1st class seats.

In regard of Fyra, they have already waived fare supplement (far higher than that of ICE) in a number of occasions. Indeed, at the smallest problem in the Rotterdam-Den Haag-Leiden-Schiphol line they seem to open Fyra (now running 34 services per direction daily) for other passengers. This has increased the number of people travelling on Fyra considerably and increased awareness of the service among users. My only concern: that passengers will demand Fyra to be open all the times without supplement and NS bowing to them as an image-appease initiative, which could derail HSA already precarious financial situation.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 05:10 PM   #215
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Actually, when the Fyra supplement is waived, NS Reizigers pays a sum of money to HSA to pay for those supplements.

About SLT: if you live in Gilze-Rijen and you have to go to work in Houten-Castellum, the sprinter series are the only options you have. That's over an hour in a train without a toilet, and there are no faster alternatives. NS intended the SLT trainsets for short trips (where the average passenger would be in an SLT for 20 minutes max.) but when they use these trains on long-haul services like Rotterdam - Alkmaar, you're bound to attract passengers that make long trips in a sprinter simply because it's the fastest route.

Furthermore sometimes SLT is also used as a replacement service when the original train is broken down. I.e. on the The Hague - Venlo route, an intercity service. SLT doesn't belong there in the first place, but when it does make its appearance there it's just a huge pain in the ass to passengers that need to.. well.. go.

This is a problem, either because NS ordered the wrong trains or perhaps they ordered the right trains but they are using them on the wrong route.



About safety: from what I've understood, people feel unsafe in SLT exactly because of the wide open area and that there is not a single place in the train where you can not be seen. The older Mat '64, the SGMm trains, the intercities, they all have compartments which are at most as long as the carriage itself. SLT is a wide open area and as well-lit as a soccer field.

About delays: not necessarily related to the rolling stock, I think the NS staff still needs to get used to the trains and its characteristics.
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Old January 11th, 2011, 06:57 PM   #216
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SLT reliability has dropped below 10% recently because of (your not gonna believe it) melting snow water that entered the electrical systems and caused chortcuts in the electrical systems of the train. What a wonderfull product, a leaking train.....
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Old January 11th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #217
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SLT reliability has dropped below 10% recently because of (your not gonna believe it) melting snow water that entered the electrical systems and caused chortcuts in the electrical systems of the train. What a wonderfull product, a leaking train.....
Sounds like rushed production......how many SLT's does NS own?
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Old January 11th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #218
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Sounds like rushed production......how many SLT's does NS own?
No apperantly it has something to do with an altered design of the airflow for cooling the electronics.
The alteration was requested by NS, they probably regret this deerly
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Old January 12th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #219
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Sounds like rushed production......how many SLT's does NS own?
NS itself owns no trains. The lease company NS Financial services is responsible for rolling stock procurement and dry lease to NS.

But there are 99 sets.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 03:46 PM   #220
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NS Financial Services is a 100% subsidiary of N.V. Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS). So, what is your point?

Besides that, "NS itself owns no trains" doesn't mean anything if you don't know the terms of the contracts (financial lease, operational lease, something between financial/operational lease?). I only know that NSFS is founded for tax reasons.
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