daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 26th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #2241
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The drivers do the actual driving, there is no automation.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 26th, 2014, 09:07 PM   #2242
BringMe
I Love You, Myself.
 
BringMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Groningen
Posts: 5,072
Likes (Received): 14291

Centraal Station van Tilburg. In de zomer van 2016 moet het project klaar zijn.

__________________

dimlys1994 liked this post
BringMe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 12:16 AM   #2243
DingeZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 312
Likes (Received): 61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Anyway, if I'm getting it correctlythe Amsterdam - Breda and Den Haag - Brussel will share a similar fleet, able to use the HSL; maybe not the same batch of ICm coaches (internal vs. Benelux setup?).

Is this going to happen just as soon as the 186s will be ready?
The ICRm coaches are being revised as one fleet for both ICd and IC Brussels. The driving trailers (BDs) however are not ready jet to work with the TRAXX's. From 2017 all ICd's will run with (yellow/blue) 186 + ICRm, including BDs. The IC Brussels will run with NMBS 2800 + ICRm, probably with BDs. There are however a few BDs's less than needed compositions, so a few trains will be sandwiched with 186's.
__________________

Wilhem275 liked this post
DingeZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #2244
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,732
Likes (Received): 766

So with a driving coach they'll finally be able to reach Den Haag Centraal (as the Eindhoven IC), theorically. I'm not sure about this happening because the junction at Hollands Spoor would then have to move 8+4 tph and this seems risky...
Although the current timetable of HS* is cleverly designed and would already allow that.

As of today (or yesterday) I see that ICRm + BDs are used sometimes on the Zwolle - Roosendaal service. Which fleet is going to be used there? DDZ?


I'm also thinking about the setup of the Amsterdam - Utrecht line with the new A'dam - Venlo service.
Will the new service go through Amsterdan CS or Zuid? The Bijlmer Arena - CS strecht seems more loaded than the Zuid line (considering the extra capacity with OV-SAAL complete).

The final step could be to bring a total of 8 IC per hour...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
It looks like there are plans to intensify Breda - Tilburg connections to 6 ICs per hour + 4 sprinter trains.
...adding a Breda - Amsterdam via Utrecht.

Which in no way is going to be faster than the ICd to Amsterdam, but would finally close the gap between Breda and Utrecht (no direct IC, only Sprinters).

Then an interesting setup could be Venlo - Schiphol - (Hoofddorp) and Breda - Amsterdam CS.

Any chance to see this in action?


* if anyone needs this... I did it to keep under control what's going on out of my window, sorry if it's in three languages. The colors follow the pdf of Treinreiziger.nl (a document that have helped me enormously). "Arrivo" means arrivals from Delft, "Partenza" is departure towards Delft.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; October 28th, 2014 at 01:52 AM.
Wilhem275 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 01:55 AM   #2245
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
So with a driving coach they'll finally be able to reach Den Haag Centraal (as the Eindhoven IC), theorically. I'm not sure about this happening because the junction at Hollands Spoor would then have to move 8+4 tph and this seems risky...
Although the current timetable of HS is cleverly designed and would already allow that.
There will be no increase in traffic between HS and Centraal. The Eindhoven IC will replace the current Venlo IC, the Beneluxtrein will not be calling at Centraal.

Quote:
As of today (or yesterday) I see that ICRm + BDs are used sometimes on the Zwolle - Roosendaal service. Which fleet is going to be used there? DDZ?
The IC Roosendaal - Zwolle sees all kinds of rolling stock, it varies over the years. In the 2014 timetable it's usually a mixture of ICM (Koploper), VIRM, ICRm and DDZ... but almost anything can show up in it. In the past, some services were even done with Mat '64...
Quote:
I'm also thinking about the setup of the Amsterdam - Utrecht line with the new A'dam - Venlo service.
Will the new service go through Amsterdan CS or Zuid? The Bijlmer Arena - CS strecht seems more loaded than the Zuid line (considering the extra capacity with OV-SAAL complete).
That's not yet known.
Quote:
The final step could be to bring a total of 8 IC per hour...



...adding a Breda - Amsterdam via Utrecht.
There are no plans to do that. Realizing 6 IC trains per hour is a huge jigsaw puzzle because the government wants to do it 'the Dutch way': as cheap as possible. There will be no integral quadrupling of tracks between Houten and Den Bosch.

Quote:
Which in no way is going to be faster than the ICd to Amsterdam, but would finally close the gap between Breda and Utrecht (no direct IC, only Sprinters).
Such a service used to exist, a couple of years ago, but for some reason this was dropped. Better timetabling in Den Bosch can provide you an even better service now that the track lay-out around Den Bosch has finished.

The IC to Zwolle arrives in Den Bosch around x:11 (leaving x:14), while the IC to Schiphol leaves at x:08. If the Schiphol-bound IC were to depart 6 minutes later, passengers from Tilburg to Utrecht would benefit of an improved connection, as would pax Eindhoven - Arnhem.

The other way around there are some issues with the track lay-out around Vught, but plans are being made to also improve that area.
Quote:
Then an interesting setup could be Venlo - Schiphol - (Hoofddorp) and Breda - Amsterdam CS.

Any chance to see this in action?
It is yet to be seen what happens to the Venlo service... so far NS has not said anything about it.

Breda - Amsterdam already exists by means of the ICd, as of december 2016 a 3rd train will be added when the Beneluxtrein is re-routed over Breda.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #2246
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21234

If they want to connect Breda with Utrecht with a direct service, the best way is to extend the ICs Rotterdam-Leeuwarden/Groningen from Breda...
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

BringMe liked this post
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #2247
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21234

Is it true they are consiering scrapping the IC-direct fare supplement (toeslag) to boost ridership on the HSL services?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:02 AM   #2248
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If they want to connect Breda with Utrecht with a direct service, the best way is to extend the ICs Rotterdam-Leeuwarden/Groningen from Breda...
A direct Breda - Utrecht service already exists, it's only 10 minutes slower than taking the IC towards Zwolle and changing in Den Bosch (SPR: 1h23, IC+IC 1h12). I think it's more useful to invest in optimizing the connections in Den Bosch.

Back when I was working in Utrecht*, I used to take the IC+IC connection. At one day, the x:08 IC to Schiphol had a delay of about 4 minutes so that I could take it. I arrived in Utrecht about 10 minutes earlier than planned!

* Long live consulting jobs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is it true they are consiering scrapping the IC-direct fare supplement (toeslag) to boost ridership on the HSL services?
On the southern part (Rotterdam - Breda) it has been scrapped, it's not planned.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:05 AM   #2249
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21234

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
On the southern part (Rotterdam - Breda) it has been scrapped, it's not planned.
I know, I was referring to the Rotterdam-Schiphol supplement.

Does anyone have figures on whether passengers flocked to the ICd after supplements were scrapped on Breda-Rotterdam trips and Schiphol-Ams Centraal trips?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #2250
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I know, I was referring to the Rotterdam-Schiphol supplement.
Sorry, I meant to say so.

There are no plans to scrap the supplement on the northern part of the high speed line. On the northern section the HSL provides a real time gain compared to alternatives, on the southern part the difference is much smaller. And, in the future, all IC services between Breda and Rotterdam will go over the HSL leaving passengers with no real alternatives.

Quote:
Does anyone have figures on whether passengers flocked to the ICd after supplements were scrapped on Breda-Rotterdam trips and Schiphol-Ams Centraal trips?
Maybe you can find some figures in the 'Voortgangsrapportage HSL-Zuid' that is published once every 6 months. It contains some numbers about quarterly ridership in the past few years. Passenger amounts seem to have stabilized in the last 2 quarters.
__________________
We are shaping the future

Suburbanist liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #2251
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,732
Likes (Received): 766

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If they want to connect Breda with Utrecht with a direct service, the best way is to extend the ICs Rotterdam-Leeuwarden/Groningen from Breda...
Breda and Tilburg but I agree a good transfer is better than a direct service that risks to crash the whole system.

Anyway, a possible reason to not send the Brussel to Den Haag CS is to keep it easier to send to the depot for swapping the material, since it's the end of a long ride.
Sometimes I see the train at HS not routed to track 1, to send it to Binckhorst.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:14 AM   #2252
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Breda and Tilburg but I agree a good transfer is better than a direct service that risks to crash the whole system.
That is true, and there's a financial aspect to it as well. If there are no passengers for the additional service it'll be loss-making and nobody is interested in that.
Quote:
Anyway, a possible reason to not send the Brussel to Den Haag CS is to keep it easier to send to the depot for swapping the material, since it's the end of a long ride.
Currently the train terminates at Den Haag HS because there is some spare capacity. Platform 1 is not used for normal train services and there are tracks adjacent to it which can be used for shunting and stabling activities.

At Den Haag Centraal there is much more activity as all trains terminate or begin there. Two platforms have been withdrawn for usage by RET line E, which puts (a little) pressure on the other platforms. There's absolutely no space for all the shunting activities that come with a push-pull train.

As of timetable 2015 the Beneluxtrein will continue to Amsterdam, but will not be calling at Centraal because this would add a significant amount of time to the journey. As Den Haag is already served (on HS, with good connections to loca public transport) a stop in Centraal would be redundant.
Quote:
Sometimes I see the train at HS not routed to track 1, to send it to Binckhorst.
That does happen indeed. You can also get to the Binckhorst from Centraal tho
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 02:22 AM   #2253
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21234

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Maybe you can find some figures in the 'Voortgangsrapportage HSL-Zuid' that is published once every 6 months. It contains some numbers about quarterly ridership in the past few years. Passenger amounts seem to have stabilized in the last 2 quarters.
I've found these figures for passenger traffic on HSL

kwartaal = quarter

__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 03:51 AM   #2254
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,732
Likes (Received): 766

Crap, I forgot the Benelux will go to Amsterdam... no way it could be convenient to go to CS.

Talking about services than run through Den Haag, I was quite surprised to discover that the night ICs don't call at Laan van NOI (and other secondary stations in metro areas, like Schiedam and Amstel). They cut out large parts of cities, to gain a mere handful of minutes... I suspect this is linked to avoid keeping stations staffed at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
That is true, and there's a financial aspect to it as well. If there are no passengers for the additional service it'll be loss-making and nobody is interested in that.
Well, that goes without saying, for me. We can build any kind of realistic or weird fantaservices while we're just chatting, but in my educational activities I never stress enough that before making ANY step there must be a detailed analysis of (potential) demand.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 04:10 AM   #2255
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

It has to do with staffing of stations, indeed. You will see more security personnel (V&S) at night time, as they are tasked with keeping out obnoxious people and, if needed, providing some care to people who had a little bit too much to drink. Connecting public or taxi transport is often provided from the main station, so there's little need for having additional stations open in a city.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 04:23 AM   #2256
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,529
Likes (Received): 21234

My worst experience with night trains was on winter 2009. Long story very short: I was coming back late at night to Tilburg from Rotterdam, snow limited out train to Dordrecht, we were told the train would go no further, and then I had to wait, wait and wait. The security guards wouldn't let us wait for another train inside the station saying all trains had been cancelled. Another employee with a different vest told us NS would provide alternative transportation for the 10 or so stranded passengers. So another passenger begged with the security guard to let us wait inside the station, to protect us from the snowfall, the guard wasn't sympathetic but then the other employee with a different vest called someone and they let us stay until the snow on the highway was cleared and several taxis could come take us home. Those 2.5 hours in Dordrecht were bad. It was one of the coldest nights in 30 years or something.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 04:36 AM   #2257
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

My worst experience was somewhere last year. I took the 2:00 night train from Tilburg to Breda. Shortly before arriving in Breda the train came to a halt, an announcement followed that the train would return to Tilburg. Train traffic around Breda had come to a complete halt due to some construction guys cutting through a cable.

Around 2:45 I was back in Tilburg, where some people started gathering information about the destinations of all the passengers who were on board that train. Those who had to go the furthest were assisted first (some people had to go to Schiphol, for example), people for Breda were helped last. Then the long wait begun... taxis were arranged, but it was unclear how many were ordered and when they would arrive. As I live in Breda, I had to wait the longest - the taxi that brought me and about 8 others to Breda did not arrive until 4:45.

The driver was a complete maniac, going 125 km/h over an "N-weg" (the local road between Tiburg and Breda, max. allowed speed 80). Passengers on board the taxi asked the driver to please slow down, but he told people "not to worry" as he "never had an accident". The driver was 25, tops.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 09:34 AM   #2258
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
Likes (Received): 274

Did you report the driver back to NS or the company he was working for? Sometimes that helps.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #2259
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

I didn't. First thing what I wanted to do was get some sleep, the next day I had mostly forgotten about it.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #2260
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

If you want to know what kind of rolling stock is planned for which services, some hobbyist (?) has made an extensive list of the rolling stock planning. He updates this for every timetable change and every amendment. For example, here's the list effective since October 6th, other lists can be found here (drgl = timetable: materieelinzet = planned rolling stock, LM ritten = empty passenger stock movements).

Reading guide:
Code:
MDWDV-Z	1965	ICM	-----Z-	1965	DDZ
On mondays to fridays (MDWDV, second Z) and on sundays, train 1965 runs with ICM (Koploper) stock. On saturdays (first Z), DDZ is used instead for this train. You can find the train numbers in the timetable and journey planners.

For actual rolling stock while you're on your way, you can use http://www.ovtijden.com/avtdag/UT/ or the OVinfo app (Android only)
__________________
We are shaping the future

Wilhem275, radamfi liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium