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Old November 3rd, 2014, 02:10 AM   #2321
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This happened to me once as well. It happened in 2012, though, and I remember well that I couldn't re-check-in until 3 minutes had passed (I tried to do it immediately, but got an error message).
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 02:19 AM   #2322
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What happens if someone does this, for instance:

- check-in at Lelystad (NS)
- alight in Amsterdam Zuid, doesn't check-out (NS), check-in on metro gates (GVB)
- check-out in Amsterdam Centraal metro gates (GVB)

then taps the NS totem at Amsterdam Centraal...
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 02:22 AM   #2323
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Will they keep formally allowing stopovers, when the gates will be in operation?
Example: Check-in in Den Haag, Check-out in Leiden, later check-in in Leiden and finally check-out in Haarlem ==> billed as Den Haag - Haarlem.

Regional transport in most (if not all) countries allows for stopovers, it would be a pity to not allow it anymore.


Other story: yesterday I had another train-nerd friend here and I had to show him all the nice features of the giant model rail layout which goes under the name of "Randstad", using my €14 Dagkaart.

282 km... and he was amazed like I was the first time I discovered all the brilliant solutions used.



Sloterdijk - Schiphol was closed for work. And right after we arrived in Delft, a train broke the overhead wires and the whole line was blocked, there was a bit of confusion and then they reversed to Rotterdam all trains arrived from South.

I also forgot to check out of a tram in Rotterdam with my OV-C and he had some troubles with the 1-hour single ticket because staff requested him to check-out and check-in every time but all machines refused the ticket.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 10:45 AM   #2324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What happens if someone does this, for instance:

- check-in at Lelystad (NS)
- alight in Amsterdam Zuid, doesn't check-out (NS), check-in on metro gates (GVB)
- check-out in Amsterdam Centraal metro gates (GVB)

then taps the NS totem at Amsterdam Centraal...
In that case it will be seen as the start of a new journey. When checking in, the system only looks at your last transaction to see if you're eligible for a transfer (long distance discount).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Will they keep formally allowing stopovers, when the gates will be in operation?
Example: Check-in in Den Haag, Check-out in Leiden, later check-in in Leiden and finally check-out in Haarlem ==> billed as Den Haag - Haarlem.

Regional transport in most (if not all) countries allows for stopovers, it would be a pity to not allow it anymore.
As long as you check in within 35 minutes after having checked out, and not having made any journeys in between, you are given the long distance discount.

If any of those conditions is not met it will be seen as the start of a new journey.
Quote:
Other story: yesterday I had another train-nerd friend here and I had to show him all the nice features of the giant model rail layout which goes under the name of "Randstad", using my €14 Dagkaart.

282 km... and he was amazed like I was the first time I discovered all the brilliant solutions used.



Sloterdijk - Schiphol was closed for work. And right after we arrived in Delft, a train broke the overhead wires and the whole line was blocked, there was a bit of confusion and then they reversed to Rotterdam all trains arrived from South.
Those things happen, unfortunately. You can't blame NS for that happening (those things just happen), but you can file a claim to get a refund (Geld terug bij Vertraging).

Quote:
I also forgot to check out of a tram in Rotterdam with my OV-C
That can happen as well! If you lost any money because of this, you can request a refund online. I did this once and RET had refunded the money in two days.

Quote:
and he had some troubles with the 1-hour single ticket because staff requested him to check-out and check-in every time but all machines refused the ticket.
Was it an RET issued ticket that was still valid at that time (i.e. has it not been more than an hour since the first check-in)? An "HTM uurkaartje" is not valid on RET vehicles and vice versa.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 12:02 PM   #2325
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Beautiful netherland... It's amazing. Can't describe in words. I really want to visit those place. Great ...
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 12:13 PM   #2326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I may have found a way to save a few cents with the OV Chipcard but I'm not sure it's legal.

I travel from The Hague to Leiden (and back) once a week. I'm only there roughly 3 hours. Last Friday, I forgot to check out when I arrived in Leiden.

So when I came back to Leiden Centraal, 3 hours later, I checked out. Then I immediately checked back in again because I was going back to The Hague. Naturally, it registered "Overstap OK."

When I got back to The Hague and I checked out, I was charged € 2.50 for the trip versus the normal € 3.30.

Now, it's obviously a small difference I'm not going to go out of my way for an 80 cent discount. But if you have a trip like that 5 times a week, it might be worth considering. So, could they fine you for doing this?
It is legal. Because this is a new journey, you can travel anywhere, including your original starting point. I do this very often with the bus, when I went to my dentist last week for example, I checked out and was back at the bus within 35 minutes, so I saved 88 cents. Even if I missed that bus it wouldn't be a problem, because I could take another bus for 2 stops, coming closer to my destination and it gives you 35 more minutes.
When travelling with the train I suppose this is legal, as long as you check out within 6 hours after your check-in (otherwise it wil cost you 20 Euros).
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 01:18 PM   #2327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verfmeer View Post
It is legal. Because this is a new journey, you can travel anywhere, including your original starting point. I do this very often with the bus, when I went to my dentist last week for example, I checked out and was back at the bus within 35 minutes, so I saved 88 cents. Even if I missed that bus it wouldn't be a problem, because I could take another bus for 2 stops, coming closer to my destination and it gives you 35 more minutes.
When travelling with the train I suppose this is legal, as long as you check out within 6 hours after your check-in (otherwise it wil cost you 20 Euros).
I have used this technique often when spending time walking around city centres. I just hop on the first bus/tram I see as the 35 minutes comes to an end.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 04:48 PM   #2328
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Some more photos from Delft, taken from Railway Gazette:





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Old November 3rd, 2014, 05:10 PM   #2329
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The Dutch... always economical with escalators. In most countries, there would be a narrower staircase and 3 more escalators.

I wonder why is this the case. It happens not only on station buildings, but pretty much anywhere. It is noticeable how even people living or working in multi-story buildings will use stairs instead of lifts for 2 (climb) up to 4 (descend) floors ignoring the mechanical elevation structures.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 06:26 PM   #2330
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People like to, and are encouraged to, walk. It's a very small thing but it helps staying healthy.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 07:11 PM   #2331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
As long as you check in within 35 minutes after having checked out, and not having made any journeys in between, you are given the long distance discount.
This is pretty limiting for stopovers. There's not much one can do within 35 minutes around a station, and without local transports.

Also, I guess they will not apply the discount if I chech-in at a different station (example: Delft - Rotterdam CS, walk to Blaak, then Blaak - Dordrecht).

These situations are not very frequent, but when they happen it's nice to have an open regional ticket and be free to use the system.
If NL doesn't want area ticketing, at least the train ticketing should be actually integrated with the local usage of OV-C (single basistarief, free change from train to PT <35', pay-per-km).
That could be a way to have a flexible and integrated system without getting rid of the OV-C system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Those things happen, unfortunately. You can't blame NS for that happening (those things just happen), but you can file a claim to get a refund (Geld terug bij Vertraging).
Nah, I don't blame them, it can happen anywhere. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often, with 1,5 kV and this dense traffic with strong accelerations.
In the end we didn't have any serious delay, we were travelling away from the troubled stretch. There was just a bit of confusion because they loaded people on a DD-AR to Venlo and then they announced that another train was going to depart first, so everybody had to move. Not a big deal.

We also noticed that, in emergency conditions, all three tracks in Delft were needed... next year they will have just two.

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That can happen as well! If you lost any money because of this, you can request a refund online. I did this once and RET had refunded the money in two days.

Was it an RET issued ticket that was still valid at that time (i.e. has it not been more than an hour since the first check-in)? An "HTM uurkaartje" is not valid on RET vehicles and vice versa.
Yep, I found the formulier but I'm waiting because yesterday not all transactions from RET showed up on my card account. Now they did.
We simply jumped off because we realized we were going in the wrong direction.
I wonder if they'll refund also the basistarief (which I paid again after 5', on the next tram we took).

About the single ticket, it was issued by RET staff on board, IIRC the agent checked it in before handing it over to my friend.
On the next tram the agent checked it but there was something wrong because it was still associated with the previous ride. Then he corrected the error with his machine and told us that also single tickets must undergo the common checking procedure*; following validators always considered it invalid.

*and that was the moment my friend began to swear against the OV-C system it's a 1-hour ticket limited to the RET network, who the hell cares about revenues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
even people living or working in multi-story buildings will use stairs instead of lifts for 2 (climb) up to 4 (descend) floors ignoring the mechanical elevation structures.
Oh come on, I'm the less athletic person I know and even I follow that rule!
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 07:49 PM   #2332
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Back in the day of the Strippenkaart, it was permitted to use the train in some urban areas (e.g. between the main stations in Amsterdam). This was abolished when the OV-chipkaart was introduced, probably because of challenges when it comes to integrating the urban tariff into the software used for price calculation.

Pricing with the OV-chipkaart is difficult. The tariff is dependant on the operator and the area in which a line runs. Sometimes, there are multiple operators and areas, in which tariffs can be different even for vehicles that follow the same routes. For example, in the city of Amsterdam the transport is carried out by GVB, who is owned and paid by the council of Amsterdam. However, some regional lines are operated by Connexion or EBS under contract of the province of Noord-Holland. Because of different levels of subsidy and usage, a kilometer with GVB may be cheaper than with EBS.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:44 PM   #2333
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Nor do you need to be Dutch to follow such a sensible approach. I also never use elevators for less than four floors unless I carry something heavy.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:45 PM   #2334
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The most obvious cases, I think, are trips between the stations served by GVB and NS concurrently, for instance, between Amsterdam Zuid and Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena.

By the way, I have a question: if one wants to travel, on NS, between Amsterdam Lelylaan and Amsterdam Zuid, what is the valid route? Via Schiphol (backtracking a lot) or round the way via Amsterdam Centraal and Duivendrecht?
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:46 PM   #2335
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Nor do you need to be Dutch to follow such a sensible approach. I also never use elevators for less than four floors unless I carry something heavy.
I live on 3rd floor (first is 8m high) of a 12-floor building, I almost always use the elevator both ways.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:47 PM   #2336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Dutch... always economical with escalators. In most countries, there would be a narrower staircase and 3 more escalators.

I wonder why is this the case. It happens not only on station buildings, but pretty much anywhere. It is noticeable how even people living or working in multi-story buildings will use stairs instead of lifts for 2 (climb) up to 4 (descend) floors ignoring the mechanical elevation structures.
Some people like to stick with what they are used to and what works, and won't listen to people coming from far away dictating to them how everything has to be high-tech because they got f*ck-all in their own country.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:49 PM   #2337
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Some people like to stick with what they are used to and what works, and won't listen to people coming from far away dictating to them how everything has to be high-tech because they got f*ck-all in their own country.
Why do you take any comment I make for an attempt to impose a different set of behaviors on a large group of people?
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:51 PM   #2338
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Because you've got a habit of doing so. I have invited you are number of times to come to the Dutch section and lay out your plans for our little country, but it seems you are afraid. Do it anyway, and we can have a normal discussion. I am sure your Dutch is more than adequate by now....
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 10:18 PM   #2339
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Quote:
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The most obvious cases, I think, are trips between the stations served by GVB and NS concurrently, for instance, between Amsterdam Zuid and Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena.

By the way, I have a question: if one wants to travel, on NS, between Amsterdam Lelylaan and Amsterdam Zuid, what is the valid route? Via Schiphol (backtracking a lot) or round the way via Amsterdam Centraal and Duivendrecht?
The fastest way can be used. In this case, going via Schiphol takes you 19 minutes, vs 49 minutes via Centraal/Duivendrecht. This is a hypothetical situation though, most people will use the GVB metro.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 10:34 PM   #2340
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Suburbanist would drive his car into the elevator if he could. Park in front of his apartment's front door.
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