daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 28th, 2014, 12:17 AM   #2381
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
So, with the common Reizen op saldo, I can virtually stay around for the whole day?

Also, at which time of the night are "previous day travels" closed by the system? The question arose with a friend while discussing what happens with night travels.
4.00, I think


Quote:
At home I have to deal with a couple of Translohr systems and they're afwul: they put together the disadvantages of both trams and buses.
I have no mercy for these projects, nor for those administrations who chose them while the market is offering great trams and buses.
Venezia-Mestre Translohr is okay-ish. I don't Translohr much though.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 28th, 2014, 01:07 AM   #2382
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
So, with the common Reizen op saldo, I can virtually stay around for the whole day?
Yep.
Quote:
Also, at which time of the night are "previous day travels" closed by the system? The question arose with a friend while discussing what happens with night travels.
4:00 in the morning, when a new timetable day commences.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 11:16 AM   #2383
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17036

__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 10:01 PM   #2384
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

1254 used for ice removal

This article in Dutch brought a smile to my face: Historic locomotive 1254 was used this weekend to remove ice from the overhead wire between Amerfoort and Ede. The 1254 was ideally suited because, contrary to modern equipment, it has much sturdier pantographs and doesn't have any electrical equipment on its roof that could get damaged by scraped of ice. Additionally because it has old style completely manually controlled resistor grid power control and only a large single fuse as its safety mechanism (no power line circuit breaker!), there aren't any electronics to go wrong if contact to the overhead wire should get interrupted shortly.

Makes me wonder though, how they do this in other countries, especially those that have a high voltage AC power supply. Do they have special scraper trains?
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.

Slagathor liked this post
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2014, 11:56 PM   #2385
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Common practice on the Italian network as well.

But there was a recent test last year, very successful, on a 25 kV HSL: while no trains are around, setting the electrical substations in a "short circuit mode", in such a way that the power line will act as a giant resistor, heat up and melt the ice.

It works fine, requires few works on the substations devices, can be managed remotely and doesn't cost too much to operate.

It will be probably extended to the whole HSL network (at least in areas suffering from ice), and further experiments indicated that the same technology could be likely used on the 3 kV DC network as well.
So I think ProRail could apply the same on the 1,5 kV lines.


PS: there are also some maintenance vehicles with a special pantograph which spreads an anti-icing liquid on the catenary:
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; December 2nd, 2014 at 12:03 AM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 12:14 AM   #2386
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

"Short-circuit mode" (in Dutch: ijzelschakeling) was actually used in the past on the Dutch railway network, but it is not used anymore as it has some disadvantages over using pantographs to scrape off the ice.

1) When the 'ijzelschakeling' is active, electric trains can't run on the tracks
2) It's expensive to have all substations fitted for this mode
3) It costs a lot of energy and thus, money
4) It rarely occurs that an overhead line is unusable due to ice offset
5) The heat weakens the overhead line, increasing the risk of it breaking.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 11:33 AM   #2387
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,463
Likes (Received): 6162

I remember waiting for the train in Zeeland at 6.45 AM on a cold winter morning in early 2009 when all the overhead wiring was pretty badly iced up. I seem to recall that instead of the usual VIRM, we got a MAT '64. The sparks were quite intense. Is/was the MAT better equipped to deal with these conditions?
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 12:07 PM   #2388
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I remember waiting for the train in Zeeland at 6.45 AM on a cold winter morning in early 2009 when all the overhead wiring was pretty badly iced up. I seem to recall that instead of the usual VIRM, we got a MAT '64. The sparks were quite intense. Is/was the MAT better equipped to deal with these conditions?
Apparently, rolling stock using power electronics is quite sensitive to the
quality of the power supply : when there is ice on the wire, the power is
frequently interrupted for very short periods (that's why you see sparks)
and those brutal disconnects can easily cause malfunctions. Old rolling
stock using resistors and DC motors are not (or less) sensible to this, so
yes it is a wise idea to use older stock for the first services of the day,
until the wires are totally free of ice. But what will we do when those old
locos and EMUs will ge gone ? In Belgium (where we do that as well), all
resistor locos are gone, an something like 50 resistor EMUs remain, for a year
or two...
__________________

Slagathor liked this post
MarcVD está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 12:12 PM   #2389
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

A nice video to illustrate that kind of sparking :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TrnlcStma4

I don't think any of our modern western equipment could withstand this...
MarcVD está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 06:10 PM   #2390
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

what about fitting trains with de-icing gel dispensers on pantographs (say, 10% of the fleet)?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2014, 08:54 PM   #2391
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

That would require very precise rolling stock planning, that evenly distributes the fitted trains over the network, because otherwise it is pretty much guaranteed that those 10% are located where you don't need them.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2014, 08:32 AM   #2392
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
That would require very precise rolling stock planning, that evenly distributes the fitted trains over the network, because otherwise it is pretty much guaranteed that those 10% are located where you don't need them.
Every competent railway has precise rolling stock planning. I wouldn't be surprised if NS knows months in advance for each train exactly what stock is going to be used for it.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #2393
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
That would require very precise rolling stock planning, that evenly distributes the fitted trains over the network, because otherwise it is pretty much guaranteed that those 10% are located where you don't need them.
The same situation exists in France with rolling stock equipped with rail
greasers, also only a small percentage, yet they manage to program the
greasing of the rails with enough accuracy...
MarcVD está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 03:17 PM   #2394
3737
Registered User
 
3737's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Leiden
Posts: 1,406
Likes (Received): 1036

Today the Dutch railways announced (Dutch) they will buy 118 CAF trains for the sprinter next generation bid.

In other news the dutch railways also decided to buy 58 extra stadler Flirt trains making a total of 176 new trains for the sprinter service.
The first Flirt's are expected around 2016.

To make everything clear.
The above sheet was part of the bidding for the SNG.
Stadler lost the bit to CAF but because the dutch railways needs new train fast they skipped a new bidding and are buying 58 Flirts of the shelf.
__________________

Slagathor liked this post
3737 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #2395
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,463
Likes (Received): 6162

I like it, let's have some diversity on the tracks again. It was starting to get a bit dull, just SLT and VIRM everywhere you looked.
__________________

Mojito liked this post
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 07:30 PM   #2396
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3737 View Post
The above sheet was part of the bidding for the SNG.
Stadler lost the bit to CAF but because the dutch railways needs new train fast they skipped a new bidding and are buying 58 Flirts of the shelf.
Interesting. What does the competition authority have to say about this? In CZ the public opinion would consider this a corruption.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 07:46 PM   #2397
julesstoop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Likes (Received): 80

I reckon Dutch public opinion considers anything NS does to improve service by adding rolling stock without going bakrupt (or making train tickets ridiculously expensive) benificial. It's indeed up to competition authorties to ascertain if they did stick to the book.
__________________
--
Lapinisme blijft relevant...
julesstoop no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #2398
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes (Received): 6078

Meh, I really prefer the look of the SLTs to these monstrosities .
__________________

flierfy liked this post
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2014, 11:07 PM   #2399
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
I reckon Dutch public opinion considers anything NS does to improve service by adding rolling stock without going bakrupt (or making train tickets ridiculously expensive) benificial. It's indeed up to competition authorties to ascertain if they did stick to the book.
NS itslef is on a relatively stable financial position. It usually has operational profits, except for last years due to write-offs related to the sad fate of Fyra project. Tickets prices have been following inflation for most.

ProRail is a different story...
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #2400
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

How much inflation has there been from May 1998 to today? And how much have average earnings gone up in that time?

I have just got out my 98/99 Spoorboekje (24 May 98 - 29 May 99) and it has the regular single and return fares on page 833.

Here is a comparison of 2nd class singles (voltarief) for selected distances:

0-8 km
1998: NLG 3.00 = EUR 1.36
2015: EUR 2.20
Increase of 62%

50 km
1998: NLG 14.75 = EUR 6.69
2015: EUR 9.10
Increase of 36%

100 km
1998: NLG 26.00 = EUR 11.80
2015: EUR 16.60
Increase of 41%

150 km
1998: NLG 34.75 = EUR 15.77
2015: EUR 21.30
Increase of 35%

200 km
1998: NLG 43.50 = EUR 19.74
2015: EUR 24.60
Increase of 25%

250 km
1998: NLG 54.50 = EUR 24.73
2015: EUR 25.70
Increase of 4%

Long distance singles have clearly gone up the least (a big reduction in real terms) because both the single and day return were capped at the dagkaart price (NLG 71.50 = EUR 32.45), whereas now the maximum fare applies at 242 km. Day returns were of course offered at a discount compared to 2 singles unlike now.

I notice that 1st class fares used to be 50% higher, now they are 70% higher than 2nd class. When did that happen?
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium