daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:41 PM   #2421
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

That's what I see 24/7 looking out of my window I'd rather use them! :-P

But I already have a couple of day tickets in my pocket, I will have my tours of the network. I want to ride a Plan V before they're put to sleep.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #2422
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

I wonder why there are so many deals to Eindhoven airport? I can think of two possible reasons.

1. From the point of view of the airport, Eindhoven airport wants to entice passengers away from Schiphol.

2. From the point of view of NS, there is competition from a direct bus service from Eindhoven airport to 's-Hertogenbosch, Utrecht and Amsterdam.

http://www.airexpressbus.com/

I didn't think commercial express buses were allowed in the Netherlands for domestic travel, but I presume this is allowed because it goes to an airport. Is there a likelihood of the Netherlands allowing express buses to compete with trains more generally? Germany had a similar ban, only allowing express buses to airports, but they changed the law with effect from January 2013 and long distance bus competition in Germany is now huge.

Given the low price of trains in the Netherlands, express buses would have to be very cheap to be worthwhile.

There do, however, seem to be a growing number of express buses to other countries.

I remember a lot of people carrying around the paper Spoorboekje. I would have thought it was much bigger seller than the timetable books from other countries given it was just the right size and it was a cheap book as well.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 12:09 AM   #2423
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I think he means that, if the decision of SNCB will be to install 3G/4G repeaters instead of WiFi, the service will not be accessible by users from abroad; while WiFi on NS trains is open to anyone*.

In fact I see no point in installing such repeaters, today.

*including people not actually travelling: when I didn't have a Dutch number I often hooked stopped ICs for a quick surf
Do people find the train WiFi reliable enough? I have generally given up on train WiFi (I have tried it in various countries) as I tend to find my own data more reliable and I usually have enough data so I don't need to save money by using the train WiFi. Nowadays I even prefer to use my own data when travelling around Europe. For most countries, I use an Orange Spain SIM card which gives 100 MB for 24 hours for 1 euro in all EU countries plus Norway and Iceland. For the Netherlands I use *Bliep which is ideal for people like me who visit regularly but for short trips.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 12:27 AM   #2424
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,011
Likes (Received): 6103

Wifi is can get pretty slow or unusable(not being able to log in)at peak hours. When it's less busy they it works fine, though you sometimes have to try logging in multiple times.
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #2425
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

I never use Wi-Fi on board the train, because I have plenty of data with my Vodafone subscription. Having a dedicated 4G connection for myself beats a shared 3G connection hands-down.

Last year, I tried using the Wi-Fi connection on board a Thalys train. While it's a fun gimmick, it barely worked and I would definitely not pay money for it. The Wi-Fi was probably overloaded, as I was on a train that left Brussels just after 5 in the afternoon...
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 02:57 AM   #2426
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2156

Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Do people find the train WiFi reliable enough? I have generally given up on train WiFi (I have tried it in various countries) as I tend to find my own data more reliable and I usually have enough data so I don't need to save money by using the train WiFi. Nowadays I even prefer to use my own data when travelling around Europe. For most countries, I use an Orange Spain SIM card which gives 100 MB for 24 hours for 1 euro in all EU countries plus Norway and Iceland. For the Netherlands I use *Bliep which is ideal for people like me who visit regularly but for short trips.
Wifi is ok. Don't forget that wifi train router uses probably the same mobile network that you use, even if you are on roaming (that is choosing the best available service). As I see above it might be different with 4G but honestly I did not notice the difference, but that might be my provider. I have also used wifi and phone data in CZ and they both had connection problems at the same times, when the train was passing through the remote areas. I really liked when NS introduced the wifi, I remember videoskyping in the train and commenting on where the train was passing. That was cool. Aggregation can make it unusable in peak. True.

Wifi is usable also for laptops and tablets that are lacking sim card.

btw, for that data roaming, do you have a double sim phone? Otherwise it can get quite unhandy, doesn't it?

It is however true that wifi may become obsolete over time, the only advantage it would keep would be the fact that it would still be free. The lack of charging facilities seemed to me always a bigger problem in trains, than the internet connection, when using wifi or data extensively, the charging becomes even more urgent.

Last edited by Surel; December 11th, 2014 at 03:08 AM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 05:00 AM   #2427
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

In this image, a ground barrier at a level crossing in Gelderland, to block the access to the tracks.

Against vehicles or against animals?
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 07:15 AM   #2428
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,011
Likes (Received): 6103

Against animals obviously. I mean the rail corridor is fenced off so no use for vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_grid
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 08:49 AM   #2429
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
No, it isn't. All communication is encrypted (ProRail assumes the Key Manager role) and there is plenty of redundancy in the network.
In fact the info is available on wikipedia, but I was to amused by earlier responses to post it.

And by the way, there is no such thing as ERTMS-3. There is level 3 and baseline 3, but they're two completely different things.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 09:21 AM   #2430
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,070
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
That is true only for the slowest service The Thalys will still take almost half of that time.
Compare the timings for the "new" IC service that will start next sunday with how it was before the Fyra farce started..

Also, more than 3 hours for 210 km is really not competitive, even on a classic
railway line.

Brussels-Luxemburg takes half an hour less, for the same distance, with much more stops, and thru much more difficult terrain... and is one of the reputedly
worse SNCB lines.
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #2431
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

I agree that the overall time is poor, I'm making a comparison table with the Vlissingen - Lelystad service (they run at pretty close times) and the Brussel IC is really sloooow... even if it skips a lot of stops.

Later I'll work on these data and post something.

The general reason is in fact the need to keep this train behind a normal IC (which is slow) between Roosendaal and Amsterdam Centraal.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 09:28 AM   #2432
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

The IC Amsterdam C.- Bruxelles-Midi is just a political-appeasing service, though a cheap one. Thalys is the flagship service on that route, and with 12 daily departures on weekdays and 10 on weekends, it is no longer just the extra option it used to before HSL Zuid opened. The advantage it has it that it now serves National Aiport directly. It used to take quite a long time to go from Netherlands to BRU by train, it got a lil' better with the diavolo connector with an easier transfer in Mechelen, not there is a direct train.

When will this IC to Belgium start running via Breda?

I wonder how much the strikes in Belgium will affect fleet management on the days that follow those "action days".
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 09:32 AM   #2433
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
btw, for that data roaming, do you have a double sim phone? Otherwise it can get quite unhandy, doesn't it?.
I have an unlocked WiFi router. I use that even in the UK as I find it cheaper to use a different SIM card for data and calls/texts.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 10:51 AM   #2434
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
Against animals obviously. I mean the rail corridor is fenced off so no use for vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_grid
Actually, this grid is intended to prevent humans from entering the tracks. Especially in the more rural areas, people tend to walk along the railway to walk their dogs or to get somewhere quicker...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
When will this IC to Belgium start running via Breda?

The plan is december 2016. NS anticipates that this will "speed up" the journey by an awe-inspiring 7 minutes...
__________________
We are shaping the future

Wilhem275 liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 10:52 AM   #2435
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

I was noticing some strange feature on NS subscriptions. Consider the Weekend Vrijf abonnement for instance.

For the pass holder, it offers

Quote:
Wanneer heeft u maximaal voordeel van Weekend Vrij?

In het weekend: vrij reizen
(vrijdagavond 18.30 uur tot maandagochtend 04.00 uur)

In de daluren (ma t/m vr): 40% korting
(9.00 - 16.00 uur en 18.30 - 6.30 uur)

Tijdens de feestdagen: 40% korting (bij feestdag op ma t/m vr) of vrij reizen (bij feestdag in het weekend)

However, for accompanying travelers, it offers

Quote:
Nog meer voordelen van Weekend Vrij

[...]40% korting voor max. 3 medereizigers (na 9.00 uur ’s ochtends en het hele weekend)
Which implies the following: accompanying passengers can travel with a 40% discount between 16.30 and 19.00, but not the pass holder him/herself!
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 12:15 PM   #2436
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
The plan is december 2016. NS anticipates that this will "speed up" the journey by an awe-inspiring 7 minutes...
Wait, this means I got it wrong... what I got is that the train would have been routed via HSL all the way from Rotterdam to Antwerpen, no intermediate stops. So this is not true.

So, to recap things, we should have:
- Beneluxtrein Amsterdam - Brussel via Den Haag, Breda and using the HSL south of Rotterdam
- IC Direct Amsterdam - Breda all the way via HSL
- IC Den Haag CS - Eindhoven (former Venlo) via HSL

All sharing the same fleet of E186 and coaches. Correct?
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 04:58 PM   #2437
da_scotty
Registered User
 
da_scotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oss/Delft
Posts: 3,365
Likes (Received): 792

Not the same E186 fleet.

The Beneluxtrein uses belgian locomotives, but the same coaches
The IC-services use Dutch E186 (the yellow/blue ones) with the same coaches!
__________________
Student at Delft University of Technology specializing in Transport & Infrastructure and Airport Design.
da_scotty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 05:48 PM   #2438
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Reason they are diverting the trains to HSL-Zuid is to provide connectivity at Breda and, indirectly, to many other cities like Eindhoven, 's-Hertogenbosch, Arnhem, Nijmegen, Tilburg, all fit with IC trains that call at Breda.

However, I think that this Benelux service should use the HSL between Rotterdam and Hoofddorp, OR originate in Den Haag Centraal.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #2439
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,355
Likes (Received): 26177

From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=537

Dutch allocate €200m for R-Net expansion
Thursday, December 11, 2014



DUTCH secretary of state for infrastructure Mrs Wilma Mansveld has announced that the government will grant €200m to South Holland to extend the R-Net network of high-quality public transport services around the Randstad conurbation

The agreement to extend the network to Gouda, Alphen-aan-den-Rijn, Leiden, Katwijk and Noordwijk-aan-Zee encompasses the first mainline R-Net rail services, including additional Netherlands Railways (NS) Sprinter services and regional services on the Gouda – Alphen line, which will be operated by NS subsidiary Abellio under a contract awarded by the South Holland provincial government. Abellio will use a fleet of two-car Stadler Flirt 3 EMUs, which will carry R-Net livery, when it takes over operation of this line in December 2016
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2014, 07:04 PM   #2440
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,011
Likes (Received): 6103

R-net rail service? So how frequent will that be? I thought one of the deciding factors to give a line R-net branding is that the frequency should be every ~10 minutes.

@Suburbanist; but that was one of the biggest complaints about the Fyra; that it didn't call at The Hague.

I checked my schedule for my usual Schiphol-Rotterdam commute for next week and it turns out IC Brussel is 2 minutes slower than the normal Intercity service, eventhough it skips 5 stations. How on earth is that even possible.
__________________

dimlys1994 liked this post
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium