daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:26 PM   #2521
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Yesterday NS announced a reduced timetable for today, due to snow.
Snow arrived, but it's nothing serious, at least here in Den Haag:


Two hours ago, and now there's even less on the ground.

Nonetheless some parts of the network seem to be in total distress: looking at the planner a good 60% of scheduled trains are not running at all, and most of the rest has at least +15'. Others are only covering a part of the route (for example it seems nothing to Vlissingen is making it past of Dordrecht or Roosendaal).

Many problems are reported in the Planner as "points malfunction", I suspect mainly in Rotterdam Centraal.


Now, unless somewhere there is much more snow than here, these are not extreme conditions. What is failing so bad? Bad maintenance? The points' heaters not working (I see one from here)? Trains stuck?

PS: right now a northbound Thalys just passed by...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:28 PM   #2522
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

I have a question: which Dutch stations have mid-point switches that allow two train-berth (like splitting platforms in a and b sectors)?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:37 PM   #2523
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,462
Likes (Received): 6152

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Yesterday NS announced a reduced timetable for today, due to snow.
Snow arrived, but it's nothing serious, at least here in Den Haag:
[IMG]

Two hours ago, and now there's even less on the ground.

Nonetheless some parts of the network seem to be in total distress: looking at the planner a good 60% of scheduled trains are not running at all, and most of the rest has at least +15'. Others are only covering a part of the route (for example it seems nothing to Vlissingen is making it past of Dordrecht or Roosendaal).

Many problems are reported in the Planner as "points malfunction", I suspect mainly in Rotterdam Centraal.


Now, unless somewhere there is much more snow than here, these are not extreme conditions. What is failing so bad? Bad maintenance? The points' heaters not working (I see one from here)? Trains stuck?

PS: right now a northbound Thalys just passed by...
It's a kind of wet and sticky snow that disturbs switches so larger stations like Roosendaal are easily crippled.

The snowfall is worse in Brabant province.
__________________

Wilhem275 liked this post
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:41 PM   #2524
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a question: which Dutch stations have mid-point switches that allow two train-berth (like splitting platforms in a and b sectors)?
For sure:
- Amsterdam Centraal
- Leiden
- Dordrecht
- Roosendaal

I'm not sure about Haarlem and Utrecht (probably some were removed).
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #2525
damiantenzijthoff
damiantenzijthoff
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
For sure:
- Amsterdam Centraal
- Leiden
- Dordrecht
- Roosendaal

I'm not sure about Haarlem and Utrecht (probably some were removed).
Geldermalsen as well.
damiantenzijthoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #2526
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154

9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
It's a kind of wet and sticky snow that disturbs switches so larger stations like Roosendaal are easily crippled.

The snowfall is worse in Brabant province.
I don't have that good understanding of the technicalities of it, but isn't it possible to make it snow proof? Did someone decide that the costs of making it snow proof are higher than having part of the network shutdown almost every winter, or every time it snows?

Last edited by Surel; December 28th, 2014 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Gr
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #2527
da_scotty
Registered User
 
da_scotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oss/Delft
Posts: 3,354
Likes (Received): 791

I think these stations have them (based on sporenplan.nl) :

Zwolle, Den Bosch, Nijmegen, Venlo, Roermond, Uitgeest, Haarlem, Deventer, Hengelo, Almelo, Amersfoort, Rotterdam (1a/1b), Zutphen, Roosendaal, Sittard, Maastricht, Amsterdam CS, Leiden CS, Dordrecht, (and strictly speaking, Rotterdam Stadium)

Utrecht has them but there all being removed!
__________________
Student at Delft University of Technology specializing in Transport & Infrastructure and Airport Design.
da_scotty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 02:23 PM   #2528
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post

Utrecht has them but there all being removed!
Seriously? Isn't that the station that needs them the most, since trains reverse there, taking a lot of dwell time for other "timed transfers" as well?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #2529
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,191
Likes (Received): 62876

Prorail wants to untangle the tracks at Utrecht Centraal by reducing the number of switches. All the different services will get their own dedicated tracks so they can pass the station passing less switches then they do now. The non platform tracks running through the station will also be removed.

This does mean that there will be less cross platform connections between routes, but that is compensated by a more solid time table and also more trains.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 06:26 PM   #2530
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Yesterday NS announced a reduced timetable for today, due to snow.

[snip]

Nonetheless some parts of the network seem to be in total distress: looking at the planner a good 60% of scheduled trains are not running at all, and most of the rest has at least +15'. Others are only covering a part of the route (for example it seems nothing to Vlissingen is making it past of Dordrecht or Roosendaal)
Looks like the Amsterdam-Brussels ICs are part of the casualties... Just looked
at www.railtime.be and saw four of them cancelled already. Here in Belgium it
does not look as bad. A tree downed on the tracks, and a few other minor
malfunctions, but nothing too serious.

But it's true that in other occasions, snow also put the rail network down to
their knees... why is that ? What makes the rail network so fragile today, while
40 years ago, they still were taking pride from the fact that trains would run
safely and reliably in any kind of weather ?
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 07:08 PM   #2531
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,462
Likes (Received): 6152

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Looks like the Amsterdam-Brussels ICs are part of the casualties... Just looked
at www.railtime.be and saw four of them cancelled already. Here in Belgium it
does not look as bad. A tree downed on the tracks, and a few other minor
malfunctions, but nothing too serious.

But it's true that in other occasions, snow also put the rail network down to
their knees... why is that ? What makes the rail network so fragile today, while
40 years ago, they still were taking pride from the fact that trains would run
safely and reliably in any kind of weather ?
In one word: switches. The Dutch network alone has 7000 and they're sensitive equipment. Snow (especially the sticky kind) is very good at jamming the electronics. That wasn't a problem 40 years ago because back then every station had a few guys with giant metal keys (and brooms when necessary) that moved all the switches around. These days, a switch in Vlissingen might be moved by a computer in Utrecht. When the electronics are messed up or when there's so much snow jammed between the switch that it can't move all the way to meet the other track; there's an error message and the signals go red, halting all the trains.

Which is why Prorail is reducing the number of switches and slowly but surely installing more robust designs.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #2532
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

On Christmas Day, I visited two of the stations that have gone fully gated, Almere Centrum and Almere Poort. I was using a HEMA day ticket which you print at home so I got to see if the barcode worked. At Almere Centrum, most if not all gates have barcode readers. At Almere Poort, only a couple did. I had no problems using the barcode to get in and out at both stations.

Earlier in the day I tried to get to Almere Poort, but just after leaving Weesp there was a huge lightening strike which prevented the train going any further. After a few minutes, we reversed back to Weesp. So I went to Leeuwarden via Amersfoort and Zwolle instead. I then went to Harlingen Haven and back, a line I hadn't done. I didn't realise that Arriva do their train announcements in Frisian as well as Dutch. Do the train staff have to speak Frisian?

It is a novelty for me to use the train on Christmas Day as in the UK there are no trains and only very few trains on only a few lines on 26 December. There were certainly a lot of people using the train on 25 December.
__________________

Suburbanist, Slagathor, Wilhem275 liked this post
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 12:20 PM   #2533
Astenaar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 742
Likes (Received): 318

Wow, really no trains? How do people without a car travel on those days? I used to use the trains a lot with christmas, travelling between work, family and family in law. I was working parttime in healthcare back then, so was obliged to christmas shifts.
Astenaar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #2534
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have a question: which Dutch stations have mid-point switches that allow two train-berth (like splitting platforms in a and b sectors)?
The more interesting question: Which stations have them and actually not use them anymore? Almelo comes to mind.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #2535
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astenaar View Post
Wow, really no trains? How do people without a car travel on those days? I used to use the trains a lot with christmas, travelling between work, family and family in law. I was working parttime in healthcare back then, so was obliged to christmas shifts.
Most people in the UK without cars are forced to stay at home on 25 and 26 December, unless they know someone who can drive them, or pay very high taxi rates. Trains finish early on 24 December. There are also almost no local buses on 25 December, even in London. Most places don't have any buses on 26 December, or have a very limited service (much worse than Sunday service). The express bus companies National Express and Megabus have started running on 25 December in recent years but only between main cities and airports with higher than normal fares. These companies run more or less normally on 26 December.

Many places also have no or very few buses on 1 January. Scotland and North East England also has no trains on that day. In some part of the UK, the trains finish early like in NL on 31 December, but in London and South East England, there are extra trains after midnight and free transport in London between 2345 and 0430.

When you tell people in the UK that you are going to NL for Christmas to travel by train they are surprised that trains are running on 25 December.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 05:55 PM   #2536
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

I'm not technically knowledgeable about signalling, but it seems like in the Netherlands when you have a signal fault, it means no trains until it is fixed. In the UK, if the signal fault is not on a junction, normally it means that all trains will stop at the signal, call the signalling centre or signal box, blow the train's horn, and then move slowly until the next signal. If the next signal is green, then the train can proceed normally. So an isolated signal fault that is not on a junction in the UK normally only makes a few minutes delay on a quiet line, and maybe 30 minutes delay on a busy line because of trains queuing.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 06:00 PM   #2537
Busfotodotnl
Registered User
 
Busfotodotnl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vianen
Posts: 1,670
Likes (Received): 511

Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
I think these stations have them (based on sporenplan.nl) :

Zwolle, Den Bosch, Nijmegen, Venlo, Roermond, Uitgeest, Haarlem, Deventer, Hengelo, Almelo, Amersfoort, Rotterdam (1a/1b), Zutphen, Roosendaal, Sittard, Maastricht, Amsterdam CS, Leiden CS, Dordrecht, (and strictly speaking, Rotterdam Stadium)

Utrecht has them but there all being removed!
Image of a removed splitting section at Utrecht Central Station:

Source: nicospilt.com
__________________

radamfi liked this post
Busfotodotnl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 06:45 PM   #2538
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Just for the sake of argument let's assume than from now on Netherlands will have snowy winters with regular snow of all kinds from later December till early March. What would have to be done with switches to accommodate for that?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 06:54 PM   #2539
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,972
Likes (Received): 6074

Either make sure they get heated properly and still work, be replaced by 'winterproof' ones, or be removed.
MrAronymous está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #2540
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Today I went through Breda station. The building isn't even finished yet, and there are some water leaks that are staining the ceilings (above the bus bays). Hope they can fix the problem.

Otherwise, I like how the station is turning out. When I had looked at the project drawings, I thought it was going to be underwhelming, so I'm positively surprised.

There is just something I'm not sure: doesn't putting buses at the same level of trains, parallel to the platforms, worsen the air quality for passengers on the platforms? In Amsterdam, which uses a somehow similar design for its bus station, there is more separation between bus lanes and the train platforms.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium