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Old January 2nd, 2015, 03:48 AM   #2561
AlexNL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is there some particular story about how Connexion ended up being the sole operator of a minuscule fleet of Protos trains?
Yup... Connexxion was the first operator to order the Protos, but the factory went bankrupt by the time the 6th Protos was delivered. Furthermore, the 1st Protos could not be used as it was a prototype model which deviated from the further sets.

Nowadays Fahrzeugtechnik Dessau (FTD), the company that made the train, re-started and is selling a modernized version of the Protos. Connexxion intends to buy a few more of those trains.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 04:01 AM   #2562
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Tilburg Universiteit under snow before Christmas

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Old January 2nd, 2015, 12:08 PM   #2563
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Quote:
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Nowadays Fahrzeugtechnik Dessau (FTD), the company that made the train, re-started and is selling a modernized version of the Protos. Connexxion intends to buy a few more of those trains.
Now the story gets really weird: Originally Connexion wanted to buy the Protos prototype to expand their fleet. However while the set was being converted from Bo'2'+2'Bo to 2'Bo'+Bo'2', just like the rest of the fleet, FTD went bust.
FTD restarted but stopped selling the Protos, so Connexion ended up having to buy a GTW instead. But FTD went bust again and the current restart FTD started selling them again?

If they want to buy extra Protos, they could sell the GTW and buy some extra Protos, otherwise there would be 3 different types in their small fleet.
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Old January 2nd, 2015, 09:22 PM   #2564
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Who actually owns the trains? The train companies themselves, the Government or province, or private leasing companies?
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 12:01 AM   #2565
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As far as I know, the majority of the rolling stock is owned by the operators and the rest by leasing companies. NS has its own company for that, NS Financial Services in Dublin. In the cities, tram and subway stock is usually owned by the city and not the operator.
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Old January 4th, 2015, 08:08 PM   #2566
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Which loco is this? When was the model retired from service? When have they changed the paint scheme to the current yellow and light blue one?


Source: Rob van der Rest website
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Old January 4th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #2567
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Spoortslag '70. Trams and buses of other companies were also painted yellow.
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Old January 4th, 2015, 08:46 PM   #2568
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Quote:
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Which loco is this? When was the model retired from service? When have they changed the paint scheme to the current yellow and light blue one? Source: Rob van der Rest website
As you can see on the nose, this is an 1100-series locomotive. Has been in active duty from the post-war electrification in the fifties through the eighties/nineties when they were replaced by the 1700-series I think.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 09:02 AM   #2569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Which loco is this? When was the model retired from service? When have they changed the paint scheme to the current yellow and light blue one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_1100

Originally, the locs did not have this prominent nose like seen on the picture,
but their fronts were flat. Noses were added later as a security measure.
This picture must be quite rare, because, if I remember well, most locs, when
fitted with the noses, were repainted grey/yellow.

Those locs were based on the SNCF BB 8100 design.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_8100
Most NS locos were based on french designs.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 03:23 PM   #2570
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Quote:
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Most NS locos were based on horrible and outdated French designs.
Fixed
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Old January 6th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #2571
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Ok, I'll bite, but with 2 questions:
  1. Which of the Alstom locos was outdated at time of acquisition?
  2. Except for the 1100-series, what is so horrible with the other series?
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Old January 7th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #2572
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Nice pics very great place for travelling................
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Old January 8th, 2015, 11:22 AM   #2573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Ok, I'll bite, but with 2 questions:
  1. Which of the Alstom locos was outdated at time of acquisition?
  2. Except for the 1100-series, what is so horrible with the other series?
Well the 1100 are basically a pre-war design.
But their french counterpart were outdated too.

As far as I know, both the 1300 and 1600 were fine machines at the time
they were put in service.
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Old January 8th, 2015, 01:20 PM   #2574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Ok, I'll bite, but with 2 questions:
  1. Which of the Alstom locos was outdated at time of acquisition?
  2. Except for the 1100-series, what is so horrible with the other series?
Nah, it's just an external design matter, and of course it's personal. I simply think that most of NS post-war material was not that aesthetically pleasant. Some looked very old, some looked just ugly. The flat liveries (which I actually like in its modern stage) didn't help the case.

The Koploper is a weird beast and was probably outstanding at the time (it still is impressive), but it's not something "beautiful".
The IRM was probably the first really modern train, had a very contemporary design in early '90s (and still looks young).

Now, I never completely appreciated Paul Arzens designs, but I can see why many people consider it so impressive. Apart from personal taste, the point is that in 1994 NS was still getting new machines with a design of 1964. A cool design of 1964, but still 30 years old...

Who takes the cake, IMHO, is the DDM... the first time I read it was a 1985 design I was surprised, it looked as old at least as the first French double deck coaches. At that design was still in production in 1998...
Interesting fact is that, with the revision process, it became one of the overall most interesting materials around, if not my favourite.

Oh, and the V250 is universally known as the butt-ugliest train ever because it didn't already have enough problems
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Old January 8th, 2015, 02:03 PM   #2575
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I suppose it has to do with the dutch attitude to "flashiness", the Dutch saying "Act normal, that's strange enough" is reflected in there somewhat modest train designs.

It's a miracle at all that the trains are bright yellow!
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Old January 8th, 2015, 04:19 PM   #2576
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That's the funny part: no way to get a fancy design, but 40 years of some of the less subtle liveries ever seen
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 01:36 AM   #2577
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Older locos from the 1940s appear to look more Americanized in design.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 01:52 AM   #2578
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Also something from later years. Mat '54 and its evolutions was clearly inspired by the American streamliners of the 1930s.

Thanks for reminding this, I remember I noticed the same and we discussed this aspect years ago in this thread.
This is not the only American influx in the Dutch transports tradition, there were also some features in motorways planning and design, IIRC.

There must have been a direct cultural contamination, somewhere in Dutch history.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 02:35 AM   #2579
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It's not that strange, shortly after World War II the Netherlands benefited from the Marshall Plan which was instated by the US Government. The railway system benefited of this as well, lots of the modernisation which occured post-WW2 is based upon American designs and technology.

The ATB safety system is based upon the Pulse code cab signaling as developed by the Union Switch and Signal corporation for the Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1920s. The class 2200 diesel locomotives were based on an American design from Baldwin and Westinghouse, and finally PCC trams were built for cities such as The Hague and Antwerp.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:04 AM   #2580
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PRR is exactly what I had in mind, talking of locomotives design. Think about the electric GG1 and the diesel E7...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog_nose

I would not be surprised to discover that people who worked for PRR was directly involved in the reconstruction program.


It is also true that many other European countries benefited from the Marshall Plan and had strong cultural contaminations, but the same signs are not so evident in their transport industries.
My guess is that at the time they had a national industry with a more consolidated tradition than the Dutch one, so there was less space to be filled with the American concepts.

For example, Italy and Germany already developed their own safety systems before the war.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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