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Old February 15th, 2015, 02:18 AM   #2621
Wilhem275
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True, but a RailJet in fact operates like an EMU. It's just more flexible on the maintenance side (locos can follow a different cycle than wagons).
Today they have traditional couplings but it's not a big deal to fit them with an automatic, maybe even compatible with the rest used by NS.

DB's ICE2 has a similar setup and is regularly used in un-/couple operations, with an automatic coupler.

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Old February 15th, 2015, 10:34 AM   #2622
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True, but a RailJet in fact operates like an EMU. It's just more flexible on the maintenance side (locos can follow a different cycle than wagons).
Isn't that also the intention with the ICx sets? If I'm not mistaken the motor cars of the ICx are self contained, and can be easily swapped out.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 11:34 AM   #2623
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Isn't that also the intention with the ICx sets? If I'm not mistaken the motor cars of the ICx are self contained, and can be easily swapped out.
I doubt they have enough capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with the Stadler twin deck. For the Beneluxtrain a kind of rail jet would be preferable.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 04:21 PM   #2624
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For the Beneluxtrain a kind of rail jet would be preferable.
Or the Stadler EC250.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 04:25 PM   #2625
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The use of trains sets in the Netherlands has nothing to do with the EU. It is all because train sets are much easier and faster to couple and uncouple. This makes it possible to lengthen/shorten trains 'on the fly', which happens regularly.
So RailJets and DDARs aren't train sets? I at least consider every fixed self propelling consist a train set. A train set doesn't have to be EMU/DMU. Nor does it need to have automatic couplers on both ends. So according to this definition a DDAR is a train set, a DDM1 isn't, because the 1600-series loco wasn't 'permanently' attached to the carriages, but added to the carriages when needed.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 04:32 PM   #2626
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However, they've decided not to build any 230 km/h Vectrons: it would require a reinforced cab structure and a different kind of bogie.
Exactly the reason they had to stop building the Taurus: It couldn't meet the requirements for locos over 200 km/h anymore. At 200 km/h the Taurus could probably still be built.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 08:30 PM   #2627
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So according to this definition a DDAR is a train set, a DDM1 isn't, because the 1600-series loco wasn't 'permanently' attached to the carriages, but added to the carriages when needed.
Yes, thats how NS treats them. DD-AR sets are regularly coupled and uncoupled during the day, but DDM-1's will be a fixed setup assembled at the depot (when they return in 2016).
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Old February 16th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #2628
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Exactly the reason they had to stop building the Taurus: It couldn't meet the requirements for locos over 200 km/h anymore. At 200 km/h the Taurus could probably still be built.
Probably not, see the SNCB HLE 18 and CP 4700 series locomotives. Those are Eurosprinters, updated for the latest TSIs. Yet they 'only' go 200 km/h.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #2629
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Probably not, see the SNCB HLE 18 and CP 4700 series locomotives. Those are Eurosprinters, updated for the latest TSIs. Yet they 'only' go 200 km/h.
I thought that Skoda 109e and Vectron were the only locos with TSI HSR. Skoda having been built first but Vectron having the certification done as first.

Is there a list of locos according to their certification anywhere on the internets?
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Old February 18th, 2015, 08:43 AM   #2630
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Being certified for TSI HSR bears no link to the maximum allowed speed, but to things like an air tight cab to allow you to pass trains a very high speeds without popping your ears out and some other safety requirements. Even a locomotive with a 80 km/h top speed could be TSI HSR certified.
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Old February 19th, 2015, 07:12 PM   #2631
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Being certified for TSI HSR bears no link to the maximum allowed speed, but to things like an air tight cab to allow you to pass trains a very high speeds without popping your ears out and some other safety requirements. Even a locomotive with a 80 km/h top speed could be TSI HSR certified.
So you mean that you get TSI HSR certification for certain speed? I think that both locos are certified for 200 km/h.

I thought that being certified for TSI HSR would mean that it is certified for HSR tracks in the whole Europe if those tracks are also certified, or something like that.

If I have it right, one of the most important things it certifies is that the train driver would have a safe zone around his body if the loco hit something at 110 km/h.
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Old February 19th, 2015, 09:14 PM   #2632
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Beautiful.


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Old February 19th, 2015, 10:38 PM   #2633
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So you mean that you get TSI HSR certification for certain speed? I think that both locos are certified for 200 km/h.
No, I meant exactly the opposite. That the currently certified locos have a 200 km/h top speed doesn't rule out that in the future a slower locomotive could receive certification as well.

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I thought that being certified for TSI HSR would mean that it is certified for HSR tracks in the whole Europe if those tracks are also certified, or something like that.
Almost. The only thing a TSI HSR certification means is that you are allowed to operate your locomotive on high speed lines at the same moment high speed trains at high speed are also operating.
I'm not entirely sure here, but for instance the DB BR101 is also allowed to operate on high speed lines at the same moment as high speed trains at high speed, despite not being TSI HSR certified.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 01:08 AM   #2634
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I meant that they would be certified for TSI HSR at different speed. E.g. at 80 km/h but not at 200 km/h. I think that if you want to use the loco at certain speed, you have to have appropriate certification for it. I see, of course, you should be able to obtain a better certification for locos that are able to operate only at lower speeds.

hmm. I went to the http://www.era.europa.eu/Core-Activi...fications.aspx and looked at the regulation http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...4R1302&from=EN I am not really wiser. The only thing I learned on their webpage is that "TSI HSR" is nowhere to be found, neither in the regulation. I guess it is some made up term thus.


In anyways. I think that the 1.5 kV would be a problem for Škoda 109e and it is not really useful to have a loco that you can't use on most of the network.

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Old February 20th, 2015, 02:07 AM   #2635
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hmm. I went to the http://www.era.europa.eu/Core-Activi...fications.aspx and looked at the regulation http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...4R1302&from=EN I am not really wiser. The only thing I learned on their webpage is that "TSI HSR" is nowhere to be found, neither in the regulation. I guess it is some made up term thus.
You are right, there is no specific TSI for high speed trains. The TSIs that exist are split up over several areas such as energy, noise, persons with reduced mobility, infrastructure, command & control and rolling stock.

One of the TSIs is the one for locomotives and passenger rolling stock (TSI RST), some of the specifications listed in that TSI are for "high speed" (> 190 km/h) or "very high speed" (> 250 km/h) vehicles only. I'm guessing "TSI HS" refers to that.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 08:50 AM   #2636
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In anyways. I think that the 1.5 kV would be a problem for Škoda 109e and it is not really useful to have a loco that you can't use on most of the network.
It will probably work fine on 1.5 kV, but just like most other DC locos, will run at a reduced power rating. The TRAXX MS for instance also derates (from 5.6MW to 4.2MW if I'm not mistaken) when used under 1.5 kV.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 03:12 PM   #2637
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That tiny space is there only in case a train will stop with doors there, to let people out.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a signal telling trains to stop earlier than that point.
Again about Arnhem supposed "design fail"... I just received this video.

Go to the last 30 seconds:



There's even a guy walking in the forbidden area but I think he's a security guard or similar...
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Old February 20th, 2015, 03:15 PM   #2638
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Yes and no. A 3kV train can run at 1.5kV, if it doesn't have protection for low potentials, at half the power output. But a TRAXX has a separate 1.5kV, which only has a lower power output because the wires can't handle a higher current.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 06:04 PM   #2639
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anyway, it doens't really matter.
The "blue squared" sign signals that all trains have to stop before the small point anyway.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 06:30 PM   #2640
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Yep, that's what I wanted to show It's designed to be like that; and anyway it's a really marginal part of the platform.
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