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Old July 15th, 2015, 12:00 PM   #2781
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Presumably Eurostar will involve a one hour delay in Lille or Brussels to enable everyone to get off the train, go through passport control and get back on the train. This is what happens with the Marseille to London Eurostar.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 12:40 PM   #2782
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Then there's no way I'm ever taking the train to London again. I did it once, with the old Benelux IC and then a transfer in Brussels. Whole thing took 5 hours. An airplane covers the distance in 45 minutes and if you book in advance, a ticket from Schiphol to London City is completely affordable. It's no contest.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 02:41 PM   #2783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Presumably Eurostar will involve a one hour delay in Lille or Brussels to enable everyone to get off the train, go through passport control and get back on the train. This is what happens with the Marseille to London Eurostar.
That's what I was expecting...

This kind of things make me ask if the barbarians are those willing to enter or those already on the island
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Old July 15th, 2015, 07:42 PM   #2784
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And what about the UK border control issues? Are they finally giving up?
On London bound trains all passengers will have to alight in Brussels (or Lille), go through security, re-board the train. For Amsterdam bound trains this is of course not a necessiy.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 07:53 PM   #2785
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What is the point of having a seperate train besides the one already going to
Will it perhaps then only be a marketing thing? (Use existing train and sell it as a London train)?

And why is Breda so important?
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Old July 15th, 2015, 07:57 PM   #2786
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The Amsterdam-London train will not make a stop at Breda.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 08:24 PM   #2787
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What is the point of having a seperate train besides the one already going to
Will it perhaps then only be a marketing thing? (Use existing train and sell it as a London train)?
I think you are mixing a few things up.

At the end of 2016, there will be 16 international high speed trains per day. These will serve the relation Amsterdam - Rotterdam - Antwerpen - Brussels and will continue to a few more destinations:
- 10/day to Paris
- 2/day to Lille
- 2/day to London

Next to that, the classic "Beneluxtrein" (IC Brussels) will run, connecting Amsterdam with Brussels with intermediate stops in, among others, The Hague, Rotterdam and Brussels Airport.

The Beneluxtrein will be relatively slow, but it will be priced much cheaper than the high speed trains. A seat reservation is not required and you can take any train you want with a ticket.
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And why is Breda so important?
Breda is well connected to other major cities in Brabant (such as Eindhoven) and also makes a good hub for onward destinations such as Nijmegen and Arnhem.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 12:36 PM   #2788
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It would be good if the Breda to Amsterdam train via HSL-Zuid is timed to meet the Benelux Plus in Breda and leaves while the Benelux Plus is reversing, so you can arrive in Rotterdam, Schiphol and Amsterdam earlier. At the moment, the Benelux train just misses the Intercity Direct in Rotterdam, so there's no point changing.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #2789
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Even if the timing don't match up it will still be quicker to change onto ICd in Breda.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 08:13 PM   #2790
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No Amsterdam-Brussels or The Hague-Brussel HSL should pass by Breda.
There should be separate The Hague-Breda-Eindhoven, etc., trains, and Eindhoven-Breda-Antwerp(-Brussels) trains.

A stop at Breda on the Amsterdam-Brussels line costs too much time.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 08:44 PM   #2791
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
No Amsterdam-Brussels or The Hague-Brussel HSL should pass by Breda.
There should be separate The Hague-Breda-Eindhoven, etc., trains, and Eindhoven-Breda-Antwerp(-Brussels) trains.

A stop at Breda on the Amsterdam-Brussels line costs too much time.
This Benelux trains are meant to be slow, and to fulfill nominally a lot of broken promises after the V250 situation. So it will provide
- a "one-seat" ride between Den Haag and Belgium
- a connection between Noord Brabant and other important cities in the East (Arnhem, Nijmegen) with Belgium
- a connection between Netherlands and Zaventem airport

All of these had different propositions under the Fyra model, which was unfulfilled due to the decision of the concession to return the trainsets to AnsaldoBreda.

Without these stops, there would be no direct fast link between Noord Brabant and Antwerpen.

Moreover, for NS I guess it is important to keep the Benelux train rather slow as to not compete with the increased offer of Thalys services.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 10:34 PM   #2792
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Suburbanist is absolutely right. NS had to take several wishes into account when they were planning the new Beneluxtrein:

- It should serve major cities as Breda and The Hague
- Belgian railways (SNCB) should be willing to cooperate as NS is dependant on SNCB. For SNCB, this meant that the train should not be loss making
- It should not be too fast, as this would draw customers away from Thalys/Eurostar

An SNCB wish/demand was that the Beneluxtrein would also call at Noorderkempen, so that the current shuttle service (which is very expensive to run) is no longer necessary. The Noorderkempen area will see great improvements because of this: they will receive good connections with Breda, Rotterdam, Amsterdam as well as Brussels. Currently, Noorderkempen - Brussels requires a change at Antwerp.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 12:06 AM   #2793
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After this plan is implemented, will they run separate IC and Sprinter trains Eindhoven-Venlo, or will they run only Sprinter trains calling at all station on that line?
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Old July 18th, 2015, 02:38 AM   #2794
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The IC service between Venlo and Eindhoven will be retained, but the train will continue towards Utrecht and Amsterdam. This is part of the "ETMET" plan, which will see 6 trains per hour running between Eindhoven and the Amsterdam area.
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Old July 18th, 2015, 03:19 AM   #2795
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Quote:
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The IC service between Venlo and Eindhoven will be retained, but the train will continue towards Utrecht and Amsterdam. This is part of the "ETMET" plan, which will see 6 trains per hour running between Eindhoven and the Amsterdam area.
So during the day there will be every hour:
- 2 IC Venlo-Amsterdam
- 1 IC Schiphol-Maastricht
- 1 IC Schiphol-Heerlen
- 1 IC Amsterdam-Maastricth
- 1 IC Amsterdam-Venlo

is that the final set up? Or will they run the Venlo trains to Schiphol and all the Limburg trains to Amsterdam Centraal?
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Old July 18th, 2015, 11:57 AM   #2796
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I Believe this @ Eindhoven:
- 2 IC Venlo-Amsterdam
- 2 IC Schiphol-Heerlen
- 2 IC Amsterdam-Maastricht
- 2 IC Eindhoven - Rotterdam - The Hague (via HSL)
- 2 SP Weert-Eindhoven-Tilburg Uni.
- 2 SP Deurne-Helmond-Eindhoven-Nijmegen

I Believe! Maybe in future a 1/h Eindhoven-Köln.
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Old July 19th, 2015, 05:40 AM   #2797
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da_scotty is right.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 01:11 AM   #2798
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Then there's no way I'm ever taking the train to London again. I did it once, with the old Benelux IC and then a transfer in Brussels. Whole thing took 5 hours. An airplane covers the distance in 45 minutes and if you book in advance, a ticket from Schiphol to London City is completely affordable. It's no contest.
1) You have to be 1 hour in advance at the airport, and loose at least 30min at the destination (assuming fluid access to good public transport)

2) If a plane is 2h faster than a train, and they have the same price; the evironmental aspect would always make me choose the train.

3) I wouldn't even dare doubting you can find a ticket for the same price (even booked at the earliest possible time for either).
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Old July 20th, 2015, 11:06 AM   #2799
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1) You have to be 1 hour in advance at the airport, and loose at least 30min at the destination (assuming fluid access to good public transport)
With online check-ins and no luggage, one hour is frankly a bit of a stretch. There are also flights from Rotterdam-The Hague Airport which is even more convenient.

Quote:
2) If a plane is 2h faster than a train, and they have the same price; the evironmental aspect would always make me choose the train.
I only make this trip about once a year so that point is mute for me.

Quote:
3) I wouldn't even dare doubting you can find a ticket for the same price (even booked at the earliest possible time for either).
Probably.

What it boils down to is that the train is just a hassle in comparison. I would never fly to Paris, that makes zero sense. But London? Yes. Every time. Because taking a train from Holland to London is illogical; the trajectory is a very lengthy J-shape to go through the channel tunnel. To make matters worse: you're kicked off the train for a security check.

If I have to suffer a security check anyway, I might as well take a plane. It can do a straight line across the North Sea.

If I lived in Brussels, it would be a completely different story. I would take the train: 2,5 hours with no transfer is a great connection. But from Holland? It makes no sense. The connection is awful.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #2800
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3) I wouldn't even dare doubting you can find a ticket for the same price (even booked at the earliest possible time for either).
KLM Amsterdam - London City for €75,- Any cheaper Eurostar one-way available?
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