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Old August 28th, 2015, 12:48 AM   #2821
radamfi
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Do the train conductors ever check if people have paid the 6 euro dagkaart for carrying a bicycle? The problem is, you place the bike in the dedicated area, and then sit somewhere else on the train, maybe even upstairs from where the bike is. So how does the conductor know who's bike that is?

Also, on the Sprinter trains where you have tip-up seats in the area intended for bicycles and wheelchairs, should passengers sitting there vacate the area if needed for a bike?
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Old August 28th, 2015, 11:09 AM   #2822
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I've taken a bike on a train a grand total of twice in my entire life but both times the conductor walked into the carriage and asked, loudly, "Who owns the bike on the balcony?"

The answer to your 2nd question is yes, officially. That's what the sign says. But circumstances might require improvisation, such as when the train is crowded and there's a pregnant woman or a really muscled and angry looking guy sitting there.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 11:09 PM   #2823
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Prototype for new the information kiosks, Delft station:


Cepezed

The old ones looked more or less like this
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Old September 10th, 2015, 04:42 PM   #2824
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Quote:
Do the train conductors ever check if people have paid the 6 euro dagkaart for carrying a bicycle? The problem is, you place the bike in the dedicated area, and then sit somewhere else on the train, maybe even upstairs from where the bike is. So how does the conductor know who's bike that is?
I have seen the ticket checkers impound bikes because nobody would claim them
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Old September 10th, 2015, 04:46 PM   #2825
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If the bike is worth less than the fine...
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Old September 10th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #2826
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If the bike is worth less than the fine...
What is the fine for not having a bike ticket?
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Old September 10th, 2015, 10:45 PM   #2827
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Quote:
What is the fine for not having a bike ticket?
Depends on whether you have a bike or not
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Old September 11th, 2015, 01:59 PM   #2828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
What is the fine for not having a bike ticket?
It's not technically a fine, it's the standard surcharge of buying your ticket on-board. So you pay the original ticket (6 euros) + the surcharge (35 euros).
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Old September 13th, 2015, 02:52 PM   #2829
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THIRTY FIVE EUROS?!?
How can that extra work that train conductor has to do be worth 35 euros?
That surcharge sounds pretty much like a fine to me

(Especially since our surcharge is 50 cents)
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Old September 13th, 2015, 03:08 PM   #2830
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You need to properly read.
He said that the €35 is the surcharge (for not buying a bike ticket) + normal ticket price. In other words: a "fine".
I imagine not having a ticket which includes bikes, when you brought your bike, is the same as not having a normal ticket normally; you'll be fined.

The rate for the bike is €6 for a day pass. But remember here that if it would be any cheaper many more people would take bikes on board and chaos would ensue. Bike + train is very popular.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 06:08 PM   #2831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
THIRTY FIVE EUROS?!?
How can that extra work that train conductor has to do be worth 35 euros?
That surcharge sounds pretty much like a fine to me

(Especially since our surcharge is 50 cents)
Because he has to write the ticket, send a copy of it to the office, which then send a bill to your house. Paying directly isn't possible, because carrying cash is too dangerous for the train conductor. Criminals would quickly know that train conductors carry cash, so the train conductors could get robbed quite quickly.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 07:06 PM   #2832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verfmeer View Post
Because he has to write the ticket, send a copy of it to the office, which then send a bill to your house. Paying directly isn't possible, because carrying cash is too dangerous for the train conductor. Criminals would quickly know that train conductors carry cash, so the train conductors could get robbed quite quickly.
Oh, okay, that makes sense.

But is robbing of conductors really a thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
You need to properly read.
He said that the €35 is the surcharge (for not buying a bike ticket) + normal ticket price. In other words: a "fine".
I imagine not having a ticket which includes bikes, when you brought your bike, is the same as not having a normal ticket normally; you'll be fined.
I got kinda mixed up in my head because, because surcharge sounds more like an additional fee - you pay it and everything's fine. But I didn't know that the conductors don't carry money, so now I understand it better.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #2833
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In Netherlands, train conductors are not there to sell tickets, only to check compliance.

It is a basic feature of any proof-of-payment system that there has to be a fine/fee/surcharge large enough to encourage people to pre-comply (aka, buy the right travel product and use it properly - check-in/out) on their own.

Else, a lot of people would not buy tickets at all and just wait for a conductor that might or might not come to sell a ticket.

I'm under the impression there are less conductors roaming trains to inspect ticketing than 3 or 4 years ago.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #2834
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Regarding the debate as to whether the €35 penalty is a "fine". On railforums.co.uk there is a section where people who have been caught for not having a ticket get advice, and usually say they have received a "fine". Then someone corrects them and says that only a court can issue a "fine".

I didn't know that conductors didn't carry cash. I wouldn't have thought that robbery would be a major problem. In other countries, conductors sell tickets on the train, primarily because the ticket office is closed, and accept cash. They could easily be carrying hundreds of euros. Dutch train fares are so low compared to other countries so even with the €35 penalty you are not talking about much money.

What I suspect is a more significant problem is the fact that the conductor is enforcing a penalty and so could end up with an argument with the passenger. That is rather brave for an individual conductor. In most of South East England and a few other parts of England, there is a "Penalty Fare" system in operation, where you have to have a ticket, otherwise there is a Penalty Fare of £20 or double the fare to the next station, whichever is higher. The conductor does not enforce that. Conductors do check tickets, but cannot issue the Penalty Fare. They can only sell a normal ticket, although discounted fares are not available. The only people who can issue a Penalty Fare are specially trained "Revenue Protection Inspectors" who normally travel around in pairs for their safety, and have special training in conflict management. They allow you to pay the Penalty Fare in cash on the spot, but they take your name and address and check that it is real by contacting relevant agencies if you want to pay later.

Do the Dutch train conductors check if you are giving them a real name and address?
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Old September 13th, 2015, 09:26 PM   #2835
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The government is planning to increase the penalty from €35 to €70. Plus the administration will increase from €10 to €15. That's excluding the travel route, that also must be paid.
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Old September 13th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #2836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Do the Dutch train conductors check if you are giving them a real name and address?
Yes, if you do provide a false, or are a tourist without Dutch address, police will be ordered to the next station. So the conductor can continue his journey on the train.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 09:01 AM   #2837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Regarding the debate as to whether the €35 penalty is a "fine". On railforums.co.uk there is a section where people who have been caught for not having a ticket get advice, and usually say they have received a "fine". Then someone corrects them and says that only a court can issue a "fine".
A Dutch conductor is what they call a BOA (Bijzonderde OpsoringsAmbtenaar = Special Investigative Officer) in the Netherlands. BOAs can issue actual fines, but tickets issued by a BOA do not have to be fines in the classic judicial sense.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 09:50 AM   #2838
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It's possible to buy a ticket on board with cash in The Netherlands, but the ticket price includes the 35 euro 'fine'. In this case, you don't get an 'uitstel van betaling' (I don't know the correct translation, something like a 'grace period for payment'?), but an actual handwritten ticket.
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Old September 14th, 2015, 02:29 PM   #2839
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Does anyone ever get prosecuted for deliberate fare evasion, or do they always get a 35 euro surcharge at worst? If you get prosecuted, do you get a criminal record which has to be declared when looking for a job?
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Old September 14th, 2015, 04:15 PM   #2840
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Escalation is always possible, of course.

1) If you're caught on board a train or at a train station (sometimes only the platforms) without a valid ticket, you have to pay the fare + 35 euros.

2) You'll need to identify yourself. If you show a valid ID, there is the additional option of paying the full amount later (but within 1 week). The conductor will assume you can show a valid ID because, by law, all citizens of the Netherlands must at all times be able to identify themselves in the public realm.

3) Failure to comply (such as refusing to identify yourself and pay or showing a false ID) may result in further prosecution. The conductor will usually call for the police to be ready at the next station, who will take it from there.

4) Sentences for deliberate fare evasion may from this point include jail time of up to 2 months or a fine of up to 90 euros. These would show up on your criminal record.

When the conductor issues you your ticket of the fare price + 35 euros, he/she will always ask you: "There is no obligation to answer; but why did you not have a valid ticket?" and your response (should you choose to give one) will be registered and might be used in further (criminal) proceedings if you fail to pay.
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