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Old November 19th, 2015, 02:43 PM   #3021
PredyGr
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My 2 cents.

This kind of rail placement in the middle of the track usually can be seen in transition zones between slab track and ballasted track, but not limited there. This method is used when you want to connect track forms with a large difference in vertical stiffness. So, I'll stick with theory 1 too. Furthermore, I cannot understand how these rails(pictured) can function as guard rails, because usually guard rails are much closer to the actual rails to prevent large deviation to occur in case of derailment.

It could also be an expansion joint, seems not, but I cannot see clearly.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 03:32 PM   #3022
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Theory 1 also sounds far more likely to me.

AlexNL seems very sure of his case, though.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 02:40 AM   #3023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredyGr View Post
Furthermore, I cannot understand how these rails(pictured) can function as guard rails, because usually guard rails are much closer to the actual rails to prevent large deviation to occur in case of derailment.
This is exactly why I left that option out.
Guard rails are usually much closer to the main rails, and in this case they're also too short to have any effect on the direction of a train at risk of falling off the bridge.

They're typically used in the post-Eschede German network, and sometimes by SBB too, to protect single pillars too close to the track:


There's also typically an "invite" for the wheel at each end, as seen in picture.

Swiss examples:




When the extra rails are close to the center of the track, usually the reason is improved vertical stiffness.
This is the bridge in Mainz, we can see the rails shifted to the center where the tracks are in transition from one segment of bridge to the next one:




Then there are borderline cases, like this one again in Switzerland, where I think they meant to suffice both functions (safety and stiffness):




All the quarrel started over a picture of the impressive Eckwersheim crash:



Where some said the extra rails are for safety (in less violent derailments...), while I tend to think they're there to help mantaining the track geometry on the curved bridge.

Then Riekerpolder came to my mind...


On a separate issue, looking at all the recent OV-SAAL works it seems the slab track bridges have been actually abandoned by ProRail.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 03:11 AM   #3024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Theory 1 also sounds far more likely to me.

AlexNL seems very sure of his case, though.
Looking at it again (and this time on a screen bigger than that of a smartphone) I have to come back to my previous statement. Guard rails are indeed closer to the track than the ones over there.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 01:01 PM   #3025
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Dear colleagues, some time ago Stadler reached with NS deal for delivery of new Flirt 3 EMUs which look to have a bit longer middle section than usual. Bearing that in mind I've waited when Stadler will add interior layout plans as in other projects posted on their web page but surprisingly non of Nethelands contracts was included. Thus my question, is such brochure for NS trains in circulation and if is please post link to it.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 11:38 PM   #3026
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Quote:
Now, in a local forum there was quite a quarrel about their function.

Theory 1: they are placed where the track lies over two different grounds (land/bridge), to give more vertical rigidity.

Theory 2: they keep derailed axles within the track.

Theory 3: there is a dilation joint there, with the main rails cut longitudinally and free to slide, and the extra rails are there to hold everything in place.
Definitely is is theory 1. For the use in the theory 2 a slanting entry with an angle of 1:10 is requested.
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Old November 21st, 2015, 11:44 PM   #3027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
When the extra rails are close to the center of the track, usually the reason is improved vertical stiffness.
This is the bridge in Mainz, we can see the rails shifted to the center where the tracks are in transition from one segment of bridge to the next one:

The shifting is only necessary because of the compensation device that you can see in front of the cabin. There is more horizontal space needed for a derailed wheelset to pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Then there are borderline cases, like this one again in Switzerland, where I think they meant to suffice both functions (safety and stiffness):




All the quarrel started over a picture of the impressive Eckwersheim crash:



Where some said the extra rails are for safety (in less violent derailments...), while I tend to think they're there to help mantaining the track geometry on the curved bridge.
In my opinion there are both only for the guidance of a derailed wheelset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
On a separate issue, looking at all the recent OV-SAAL works it seems the slab track bridges have been actually abandoned by ProRail.
Indeed, ballast track is now the ProRail standard for building a track on a structure. Embedded rail didn't brought the expected benefits. Only in special situations ballastless track is applied.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 02:00 AM   #3028
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The new station of Arnhem has been officially opened. From now on it will carry the name Arnhem Centraal.



Video made by forum member PJee, which is pretty cool
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 02:06 AM   #3029
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Good to see another major overhaul completed. What will be the next major station to finish ALL renovation/reconstruction works? Den Haag CS or Breda?
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 02:28 AM   #3030
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Breda is still under construction. In The Hague they're already preparing the finishing touches in the station hall like flooring and some kiosks. Of course they're still doing the new metro station and they haven't even started yet on the bus platform, but do those count anyway?
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 02:33 AM   #3031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
Breda is still under construction. In The Hague they're already preparing the finishing touches in the station hall like flooring and some kiosks. Of course they're still doing the new metro station and they haven't even started yet on the bus platform, but do those count anyway?
I consider a station renovation finished when all transportation-related structures are in place and opened, and all built-up spaces ready for occupation by lessors.

-------------------------

What chain stores are NS a master-franchisee/owner? I know they own Kiosk, Julia's, AH To-Go...
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 02:49 AM   #3032
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Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
Of course they're still doing the new metro station and they haven't even started yet on the bus platform, but do those count anyway?
By new metro station you mean a new terminal for line E or some works on the elevated deck of tramway/RR?
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 12:42 PM   #3033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I consider a station renovation finished when all transportation-related structures are in place and opened, and all built-up spaces ready for occupation by lessors.

-------------------------

What chain stores are NS a master-franchisee/owner? I know they own Kiosk, Julia's, AH To-Go...
Nearly all retail on stations is owned or operated by NS, you can see the full list here: http://retail.nsstations.nl/formules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
By new metro station you mean a new terminal for line E or some works on the elevated deck of tramway/RR?
They're building a new terminus for metro line E: Haags Startstation Erasmuslijn. Once that station is open, the platforms that are currently being used by RET will be reused for train traffic again.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 01:21 PM   #3034
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NS will, however, get rid of the ownership constructions of all the shops and stores on stations, save for Kiosk and Stationshuiskamer. They're also selling their ownership of the PTA in Amsterdam.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 04:58 PM   #3035
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Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
They're building a new terminus for metro line E: Haags Startstation Erasmuslijn. Once that station is open, the platforms that are currently being used by RET will be reused for train traffic again.
Re-expanding the rail station is good, the styling too, but I must confess I'm not 100% convinced by the location of this new terminus. IMHO the present day terminus has the defect of being too far in the corner of the station, and this new one moves it even farther.

My point of reference for that station is the entrance on the west side, I always reached it by tram (ground level) or walking from Turfmarkt. So the line E platforms always appeared isolated from the -excellent- tram/RR/foot/train interchange, plus crossing all the foot traffic of trains and shops. And I'm not a lazy walker
With this new setting the interchange time increases significantly, I'm afraid.

[Daydreaming]
I'd do exactly the same project but shifted to the west side of the station, with the metro viaduct passing over the railway tracks. The final cost of the viaduct would not be significantly different (almost same lenght and height), the only extra effort is building the pillars while keeping the tracks active.
Basically I'd place the metro station in lieu of the bike shed, which is also an ugly structure. The bike shed can then be rebuilt exactly under the metro deck.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old November 22nd, 2015, 06:40 PM   #3036
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Not true. You would need a much longer viaduct to be able to cross all of the tracks. Also the design would have to be altered, since the bus platform is off-center compared to the station shed. But I don't really see the point of moving it anyway, considering the time gain is minimal.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 02:41 AM   #3037
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I find The Hague Central to be a bloody mess anyways, with that turd called Stichthage to top it all off.

They should've knocked it to the ground and redone the entire area, rather than building a nice station against that ugly thing.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 09:11 AM   #3038
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I find The Hague Central to be a bloody mess anyways, with that turd called Stichthage to top it all off. They should've knocked it to the ground and redone the entire area, rather than building a nice station against that ugly thing.
Totally agree. To 'hide' Stichthage, the municipality plans now to build a 90m tall tower in front of it, at KJ-Plein. Source: http://denhaagfm.nl/2015/11/17/weers...-julianaplein/
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 11:41 AM   #3039
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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
By new metro station you mean a new terminal for line E or some works on the elevated deck of tramway/RR?
Photo-updates here (scroll down the page).
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 04:47 PM   #3040
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Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
Breda is still under construction. In The Hague they're already preparing the finishing touches in the station hall like flooring and some kiosks. Of course they're still doing the new metro station and they haven't even started yet on the bus platform, but do those count anyway?
In addition, around 2019/2020 some of the train tracks will be replaced to make space for ov chipcard gates.
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