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Old September 11th, 2016, 05:46 AM   #3381
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Off all great station projects undertaken or u/c in Netherlands recently, Rotterdam Centraal is my favorite, and Arnhen Centraal comes at a very close second place.
I'll agree... just up to this point
Although not so recent, I like a lot the style of Bijlmer Arena and the minimal design of some recent local stations (Ypenburg, Vaartsche Rijn).

Before thinking about tearing down Amsterdam Centraal (...) there are many stations in the Amsterdam area, IMO, that need a heavy overhaul. All the '80s-90s "tubular style" is aging terribly, like Sloterdijk, Zaandam, Duivendrecht, Almere Centrum...
Maybe at the time it looked futuristic, and it was kind of consistent, but now it just lost it.

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It's a reference to an old design feature (so called blind bays) that's fallen into disuse and is these days usually associated (often mistakenly) with the infamous window-tax introduced by Napoleon.

It can often be hard to tell the difference between windows that were bricked up for tax purposes and blind bays that were designed like that from the start.
I get your reference, but I still don't see it in Breda's design. It's a common sight in old brick walls, but usually they closed (or never opened) the windows with bricks of the same texture. I just don't recognize those random concrete frames in Dutch classic architecture (which I happen to appreciate!). Actually bare grey concrete is not something frequently seen there, luckily.
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Old September 25th, 2016, 10:14 PM   #3382
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After 52 years mat 64 made it's final ride today with a farewell tour ending at the Dutch railway museum.
A lot of people waved the 449,466,469 and 876 a final goodbye.

A tour of the interior.






Making it's last 100 meters towards the Dutch railway museum


After the farewell tour the 876 was donated to the Dutch railway museum (in dutch)
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Old September 25th, 2016, 11:15 PM   #3383
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Will they keep it in a running shape so that it could be used as a heritage train once in a while?
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Old September 25th, 2016, 11:49 PM   #3384
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Yes, 2 of the once 275 trainsets will be preserved in running shape.
The 876 will be preserved by the Dutch railway museum and the 904 will be preserved by the stichting mat 64.
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Old September 26th, 2016, 10:39 PM   #3385
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These trains indeed belong into a museum, they were a stain in the current NS fleet, noisy, cranky, badly insulated, outdated " bench-like" seats. They should had been retired at least 15 years earlier.

When has NS adopted its current yellow and deep blue livery?
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Old September 27th, 2016, 12:08 AM   #3386
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These trains indeed belong into a museum, they were a stain in the current NS fleet, noisy, cranky, badly insulated, outdated " bench-like" seats. They should had been retired at least 15 years earlier.
And they were still better than anything AnsaldoBreda managed to send our way.
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Old September 27th, 2016, 12:52 AM   #3387
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And they were still better than anything AnsaldoBreda managed to send our way.


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Old September 27th, 2016, 12:59 AM   #3388
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AnsladoBreda has nothing to do with it, it was a good manufacturer and designer of rolling stock and railway infrastructure & systems for a long time, with occasional problem-products as others have had as well, until it was purchased by Hitachi to establish an European presence.
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Old September 27th, 2016, 04:22 PM   #3389
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So good that it left a trail of rubbish trains and broken promises well before the purchase by Hitachi...
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Old September 27th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #3390
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In general, they were quite good on trams and subways, and complete crap on trains. Never understood why. I can't name a single decent train they built, or that didn't require a complete rebuilding by the operator (namely, the FS).
I still don't understand how NS&Co. didn't figure out this before buying anything, it was not exactly a secret

Signalling and infra are covered by another branch, Ansaldo STS, which is regarded as a good manufacturer (completely separate management).
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old September 27th, 2016, 09:35 PM   #3391
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In general, they were quite good on trams and subways, and complete crap on trains. Never understood why. I can't name a single decent train they built, or that didn't require a complete rebuilding by the operator (namely, the FS).
I still don't understand how NS&Co. didn't figure out this before buying anything, it was not exactly a secret

Signalling and infra are covered by another branch, Ansaldo STS, which is regarded as a good manufacturer (completely separate management).
I can answer that: vanity and stupidity. They never do their homework and in that particular instance, they also insisted on a custom designed high speed train. Because style is better than substance.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 12:38 AM   #3392
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The V250 was a well designed trainset, plagued by an unusual stacking of execution flaws and project management faults that unfortunately doomed it. It would be good to have them running up and down the HSL, had they worked as initially planned, instead of the proposed replacement which will be rated only for 200 km/h
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Old September 28th, 2016, 12:57 AM   #3393
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.
Quote:
The V250 was a well designed trainset,


Quote:
On the 31st of May 2013, the NMBS/SNCB cancelled the Fyra project entirely.[63][64] On June 3, NS also announced it was stopping operation of V250 trains. According to their survey of the trains it would take at least 17 months to repair all construction flaws, and entry into service would not be expected before 2018.[65] In addition, even if trains were to be repaired, the maintenance cost would be much higher and the lifetime of the trains much lower than agreed in the contracts with AnsaldoBreda. It is currently unlikely that the V250 will enter commercial service again.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 01:15 AM   #3394
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Of course it's all the fault of NS they f*cked up. I mean look at the Danish IC4 DMU's they work perfectly

Still though when the delivery of SLT started a lot of mat 64 was decommissioned but due to a design flaw a lot of SLT short circuit due to melting ice in the winter of 2010/2011. A lot of mat 64 was recommissioned and brought me and a lot of other comutters save at home.

I'm going to miss those noisy pieces of junk at least you knew you would arrive at your destination .
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Old September 28th, 2016, 09:23 AM   #3395
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There is a difference between design and execution. On paper, the V250 was a pretty good train: it offered high capacity (546 seats) in a single deck unit of 200 metres, which is more than a TGV Duplex. The amount of seats could be increased if you'd rework first class (more seats) or remove FC alltogether.

If the execution was done well, AnsaldoBreda had a product which they could have sold to other operators as well. Sadly, they completely screwed it up.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:29 PM   #3396
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On paper, the starship enterprise looks damn good.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #3397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
In general, they were quite good on trams and subways, and complete crap on trains. Never understood why. I can't name a single decent train they built, or that didn't require a complete rebuilding by the operator (namely, the FS).
I still don't understand how NS&Co. didn't figure out this before buying anything, it was not exactly a secret

Signalling and infra are covered by another branch, Ansaldo STS, which is regarded as a good manufacturer (completely separate management).
Ask Oslo and Gothenburg what they think of the trams. The AB trams in Oslo are a mess, as are the ones in Gothenburg (rusting). Apparently LA has also had problems with them.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...angeles-alone/
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Old September 29th, 2016, 06:58 PM   #3398
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I still don't understand how NS&Co. didn't figure out this before buying anything, it was not exactly a secret
They did find out in time, but they choose to ignore at least two safeguards included in the tender documents.

The first one was ignoring the requirement for a bank guarantee from a bank with at least a certain rating, which couldn't be met by AB.

The second one was the requirement for having recent experience as the primary contractor in a previous high speed train project. At that point AB and it predecessors had only been a minor participant in a consortium.

At the time the contract was awarded also all the issues with the Danish sets and several trams around the world were already known. Despite all that NS still awarded the contract to AB.
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Old September 29th, 2016, 07:24 PM   #3399
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Like I said: stupidity.
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Old September 29th, 2016, 08:35 PM   #3400
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Indeed.
Another example: Starting this week all Intercity Direct services have been converted to push-pull operation. Because of numerous problems with single loco operations, especially at the ATC transfer sites, and the inability of Nedtrain to create a working driving trailer in time, they decided to order extra locomotives instead, so all sets now have locomotives at both ends.
Even despite the V250 fiasco there should already have been at least 200 km/h operation by now, but again they choose to stick with 160 km/h running using renovated old carriages with traction provided by uprated freight locomotives.
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