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Old October 4th, 2016, 02:26 AM   #3421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I doubt it. It's such a short stretch. Even going to Breda you leave the high speed railway pretty quickly after the Moerdijk bridge.
The purpose of a connection at Lage Zwaule would be to allow bypass of Dordrecht, which is a constant bottleneck with freight trains going north to that big classification yard, tight curves and more.

However, I fear having a connection there would have the perverse effect of degrading the service paths for high speed trains. It would not happen once, but, say, after a while - hey, why don't we add 3 more min to all Thalys and ICD trips, so that we can fit twice as many regular trains out there as well?
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Old October 4th, 2016, 12:29 PM   #3422
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It would make more sense to make the freight trains bypass Dordrecht on a dedicated track. Dordrecht is bigger than Roosendaal and any town in Zeeland; why should the IC to Vlissingen pass it by without stopping there? Makes no sense...
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Old October 5th, 2016, 01:01 AM   #3423
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Quote:
However, I fear having a connection there would have the perverse effect of degrading the service paths for high speed trains. It would not happen once, but, say, after a while - hey, why don't we add 3 more min to all Thalys and ICD trips, so that we can fit twice as many regular trains out there as well?
You are obsessed with train speed. Did you know doubling the amount of trains on the line and increasing the connection options does far more to reduce journey times across the network.
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Old October 5th, 2016, 08:52 AM   #3424
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You are obsessed with train speed.
A lot of people seem to suffer from that.

People just don't understand that in order to make a train quicker, you do not start by making it faster, you first make it less slow. Most time is lost when a train drives slow. Raising the speed from 40 km/h to 80 km/h is a 100% increase, from 140 km/h to 160 km/h just 14%.

Despite that I still promote a speed increase. Not because of travel time benefits, but for marketing purposes. When you drive on the autobahn next to train tracks and get passed by a train at speed, that may persuade someone to take the train next time. If that train travels at the exact speed you're driving, why would you even consider the train next time?
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Old October 5th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #3425
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You are obsessed with train speed. Did you know doubling the amount of trains on the line and increasing the connection options does far more to reduce journey times across the network.
For the line to Zeeland an increase in service by introducing a second-hourly direct train to Rotterdam and letting it stop everywhere between Vlissingen and Roosendaal while scrapping the stop train had a negative effect on ridership. Speed increase for this line is the most sensible thing to do. Not by closing all smaller stations, but in fact reintroducing a real intercity will do the work combined with a stop train that is attached to the same line to Rotterdam as well. And seen the distances a higher speed pays off as well (160kph) in order to make more of Zeeland within an acceptable commute time from Rotterdam and Breda.

This by bypassing a Dutch law as two different trains twice an hour does not make sense for the sparse population of Zeeland, unless using small trains and eliminating overhead costs. Problem: this is a mainline part of a much busier line and cutting it and giving away to Arriva makes the travel less comfortable with more transfers.
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Old October 5th, 2016, 02:40 PM   #3426
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I think NS could drop the iron-clad belief that Zeeland should only and always have a direct connection with the capital.

There are a number of arguments in favor of improving links with the East: there is a significant number of students from Zeeland studying in Brabant province and there are increasingly strong business links between Zeeland and Brabant. In the summer months, day trips to the beach by people from Brabant are very common too. The bulk of this travel is currently conducted by car (except for the students) because the train link is abysmal.

If you currently want to travel from Vlissingen to Eindhoven, you face 2 transfers of 13 minutes each. That's 26 minutes standing around on platforms for a total travel time of 2 hours and 23 minutes.

We can do better than that.

I would have an IC Vlissingen - Amsterdam once every hour. It would be a proper IC in Zeeland; skipping all the small stations. In the Randstad, the loss of the 2nd IC could be compensated by resurrecting the old IC Amsterdam - Dordrecht and perhaps extending it to Breda.

Also once an hour, I would have an IC Vlissingen - Eindhoven that runs as a sprinter in Zeeland; stopping at all the small stations. The numerous stops would slow it down by a minute or 10, but that direct connection to Eindhoven would still be much faster than the current link with 2 transfers.

I would also consider closing a few of the smallest stations. I really don't think we need a station like Arnemuiden; a stone's throw from Middelburg with only 400 passengers per day...

Alternatively, you might extend the IC Zwolle - Roosendaal to Vlissingen...
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Old October 7th, 2016, 08:31 AM   #3427
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Arriva in the Netherlands, and is the primary supplier of WiFi connectivity solutions on their current fleet of 101 trains.This new deployment further reinforces Nomad’s market-leading position in the Netherlands.



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Old October 13th, 2016, 10:32 PM   #3428
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The layout of Rotterdam station allows for free flow itineraries between the Gouda line and the fast tracks of the tunnel (another good design), then leading to HSL-Zuid.
Currently this connection is used only by freight trains.

Now, through HSL Breda will have direct connections with Amsterdam (via Schiphol) and Den Haag (the soon to be Eindhoven ICD).
Meanwhile, the current Rotterdam - Utrecht IC offer is 2 tph continuing to Zwolle and over, plus 2tph usually limited at Amersfoort.

What if the Amersfoort - Rotterdam IC would be extended south and complete the connections from Breda to the Randstad?

- Breda - Utrecht would take approx. 63' (now 79', or 70' with a change)
- Breda - Amersfoort 85' direct (now 100' with a mandatory change)
- Breda - Gouda 43' direct (now 56' with a mandatory change).

The nice thing is that this would not place any extra burden on the Rotterdam - Utrecht line, just making it more efficient.


Cons:
- extra ICD materials needed*
- 6 tph Breda - Rotterdam (+ 1 Beneluxtrein) is maybe oversized


* but then I wonder if the upgraded Utrecht - Woerden is designed for 200 km/h, as it appears to be...


PS: this is an old idea, which I wrote now because of the Merwede bridge situation. I look at the road chaos and think "Why the rail isn't compensating for this, with a sort of A27-rail"... and the infrastructure is 100% ready!
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Old October 13th, 2016, 10:45 PM   #3429
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the IC Direct that will be expanded in December will make the western alternative from Breda to Utrecht Centraal better already with more connections. I'm never an opponent to utilizing the six (becoming-to-be) busy platform tracks in Breda though (with a bit of playing, extending and dividing some platform tracks I once managed to make a fantasy timetable with 32tph), but 6tph is oversized indeed, especially when combining with the rest of the line to Utrecht which sees more traffic (with 6 single-deck trains the trains will still be filled well, but there's a reason Rotterdam-Utrecht sees mostly double-deckers). But I like the idea.

I actually like to see more smaller trains with more frequent and direct connections, but an IC branching off from Den Bosch to Tilburg and Breda likely has the same speed, without the requirement for going via the HSL. With 8tph between Den Bosch and Utrecht in the far future the NS could reconsider: 4tph to Eindhoven (and Maastricht and Heerlen, giving the Venlo branch back to the other Brabant corridor), 2 to Breda and 2 to Eindhoven Airport?
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Old October 13th, 2016, 11:15 PM   #3430
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Good points, although I see some limits: I read that 6tph Amsterdam - Eindhoven are a specific target for the next years, so I guess they'll have their reasons to not split them towards differend destinations. The nice thing of going via Rotterdam is that the current equilibrium of that line is not touched, just improved.
(and that Gouda and Amersfoort get direct trains, but that's marginal)

Also, isn't the Breda - Tilburg line experiencing capacity issues? IIRC, that's also why there aren't more trains to Eindhoven.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 11:57 PM   #3431
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Also, isn't the Breda - Tilburg line experiencing capacity issues? IIRC, that's also why there aren't more trains to Eindhoven.
Yes, that line is very busy with freight traffic, and the probable reason for the Sprinters from Eindhoven/Weert to end in Tilburg Universiteit (which has a 3rd dead-end track leading to it)
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Old October 15th, 2016, 12:19 PM   #3432
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that has been an eyesore for years for stations west of Tilburg Universiteit, though the time is turning into our positive now and we'll be sweetened by some better connections for the years to come to overcome the lack of frequency. The travel times to Eindhoven and Rotterdam are greatly reduced from Tilburg Reeshof and Gilze-Rijen (9 minutes each).

By the way, from now it is a lot easier to consult the new timetable, just looking on:
http://www.ns.nl/en
And set the date to 11 December or further to look for the new timetable. It's a bitter one for people from Helmond or Goes to Rotterdam, but people from Rosmalen and Voorschoten may actually like it.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 12:43 AM   #3433
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A picture can be found on instagram of the new SNG.
Looks good.

Link
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Old November 10th, 2016, 01:30 AM   #3434
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A map (in Dutch) with all timetable changes can be seen here: http://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_147643...otaalkaart.pdf

They found some time savings on trains to/From Zwolle.... and then they add another Intercity stop in Almere

Seriously, NS needs to stop adding intermediate extra stops for Intercity trains, as if they were some RER.

They will also temporarily require everybody travelling to and from Rotterdam/DEn Haag from points beyond Breda to make a change while they are testing more trains.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 10:40 AM   #3435
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So Breda will be quite busy after December with these temporary stops requiring everybody to change trains between Rotterdam and Tilburg (and points beyond). Seems they planned same-platform transfers with a 3-min gap. I hazard that typical Dutch passenger behavior (swarming the train doors like bees on the platform, then leaving a tight human corridor for passengers to disembark) will create some delays when 300+ people need to change trains at peak time in just 3 minutes.


Speaking of Breda, does anybody know why the final construction works (removing the remnants of the temporary passageway, removing old "Kiosk" buildings) have not advanced in months? They did all the costly work and opened with with a grand-scale ceremony, now they don't finish the thing? That is very un-Dutch.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 10:48 AM   #3436
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The old Kiosk buildings are there to stay as a reminder of the past, like monuments (I don't like it either).

The passageway I don't know.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 10:54 AM   #3437
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The old Kiosk buildings are there to stay as a reminder of the past, like monuments (I don't like it either).
What?

Are you serious?

They block the platforms and complicate passenger flow.
--------------

btw, your wishes for faster Zeeland-Noord Brabant connections were met by NS
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Old November 10th, 2016, 01:54 PM   #3438
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They found some time savings on trains to/From Zwolle.... and then they add another Intercity stop in Almere
No they didn't. The IC trains from Groningen/Leeuwarden via Zwolle to The Hague will not stop in Almere Buiten. They even removed a stop (the one in Duivendrecht)! Only the IC trains from Lelystad to Dordrecht will stop in Almere Buiten and Duivendrecht.

Edit: so the 700 and 1800 series IC trains (from Groningen/Leeuwarden, respectively) will stop from Zwolle only in Lelystad C, Almere C, Amsterdam Zuid, Schiphol Airport, Leiden C, and Den Haag C.

Last edited by ErwinFCG; November 10th, 2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #3439
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No they didn't. The IC trains from Groningen/Leeuwarden via Zwolle to The Hague will not stop in Almere Buiten. They even removed a stop (the one in Duivendrecht)! Only the IC trains from Lelystad to Dordrecht will stop in Almere Buiten and Duivendrecht.
Alright, I read it too quickly yesterday. Thanks for clarifying.

Duivendrecht station looks a bit oversized for the number of trains calling there. It is also the one train station in the Netherlands where I ever felt (over 6 years) a bit unsafe or spooked exploring the surroundings on foot, at daytime. Two very important rail lines cross there, so it would make sense to stop trains on both lines there, to allow transfers, instead of stopping so many IC trains in A'dam Amstel or Bijlmer Arena.

Are there any trains that stop in Amsterdam Zuid as terminal station and do not travel to or from Schiphol?
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Old November 10th, 2016, 02:01 PM   #3440
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Edit: so the 700 and 1800 series IC trains (from Groningen/Leeuwarden, respectively) will stop from Zwolle only in Lelystad C, Almere C, Amsterdam Zuid, Schiphol Airport, Leiden, and Den Haag C.
They should run a new IC series Lelystad-Almere-A'dam Zuid-Schiphol- HSL- Rotterdam.
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