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Old November 13th, 2016, 02:31 AM   #3461
LtBk
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How many people in NL travel on rail every day? Is there a pattern of more or fewer people traveling by train?
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Old November 13th, 2016, 05:16 AM   #3462
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Zeeland needs more population, they could build TOD new towns near some of those stations, will tall residential buildings.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 10:06 AM   #3463
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How many people in NL travel on rail every day? Is there a pattern of more or fewer people traveling by train?
Looking at the NS numbers it's pretty stable at 600.000 people making 1,200,000 daily journeys. At least that is the number which the NS has published in every annual report for the last 5 years. They don't give exact numbers anymore, in 2010 it was 1.157.260 journeys. They lost some traffic to other companies as some rural local lines where transferred to other companies, which means the total numbers for all railway journeys must have grown a bit. But it has been pretty stable over the last 5 years with a slow growth.

The NS has said that this year they see a clear growth, based on the economy doing a bit better again. But we have to wait and see for the actual numbers to see if it's finally more then 1.2 million.

It's always interesting to see the statements when new stations are opened, the predicted traffic will always double or triple in 2020/2025/2030. But what we actually see a much slower growth numbers . The government and the NS are simply not investing enough in new infrastructure and new trains to even make such growth possible. These absurd predictions are just made to mislead (local) politicians to invest public money into large new showy stations. Money that should have been invested in actual measures to make the Dutch railways much more stable in it's daily operations.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 12:19 PM   #3464
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Yes, NS needs 200km/h trains, ERTMS and some new lines. Moreover, some big cities that have just buses linking to the train station must build trams or light rail (Eindhoven, Groningen, Breda, Arnhem)
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Old November 13th, 2016, 09:57 PM   #3465
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From a outsider's perspective you guys have it better than over 90% of the world.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 10:23 PM   #3466
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From a outsider's perspective you guys have it better than over 90% of the world.
And that's why they complain so much
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Old November 13th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #3467
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I live in country where many cities and towns don't have any type of passenger rail transportation at all. And many of cities with passenger service only have 1-2 trains a day.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 11:13 PM   #3468
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Well sure but our country is tiny.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 11:54 PM   #3469
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It's indeed a luxery problem, after Switzerland we have the best nationwide coverage with our rail network. And it's amazing how many passenger are using this network, especially with it being a very lean network in terms of tracks.

But that's the main reason why we still have to complain. The system is overused, problem do spread very easily over a large part of the network. You hear to often that trains don't run because of problems on other lines. It's actually the reason given in the announcements when that's the case, the NS doesn't try to hide this from us travelers.

So when I say that more money should be spent on making the system more stable I mean smart investments in extra capacity at the known weak spots. I also mean better maintenance so you don't have the same issue over and over again. When you see money being spend on vanity projects instead it's hard not to complain. And I think it's more urgent then the loudest complaints in the media. Which is even going as far as organizations going to court claiming money from the NS because people have to stand in the train too often. I very much hope the court will reject this nonsense. Let the NS spend it's money on maintenance and cleaning instead.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 12:39 AM   #3470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
So when I say that more money should be spent on making the system more stable I mean smart investments in extra capacity at the known weak spots. I also mean better maintenance so you don't have the same issue over and over again. When you see money being spend on vanity projects instead it's hard not to complain. And I think it's more urgent then the loudest complaints in the media. Which is even going as far as organizations going to court claiming money from the NS because people have to stand in the train too often. I very much hope the court will reject this nonsense. Let the NS spend it's money on maintenance and cleaning instead.
What are significant "vanity projects"? Other than some stations with too much decorative/style elements (like the huge, enormous high ceiling hall at Rotterdam Centraal), it doesn't feel like money has been thrown away.

The Hanzelijn was a much-needed project, so was the high speed line. Even the criticized V250 trainsets were also needed, if NS had worked out a solution to have them operating now instead of waiting another 2 years for new trains...
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Old November 14th, 2016, 01:00 AM   #3471
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Is there a current list of projects for passenger rail?
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Old November 14th, 2016, 02:32 AM   #3472
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Quote:
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The Hanzelijn was a much-needed project, so was the high speed line.
Needed, yes. Needed with those high-end specs... not so sure.
Ok futureproofing and all, but those were shots really too long.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 09:16 AM   #3473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Is there a current list of projects for passenger rail?
Yes! http://www.prorail.nl/projecten
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Old November 14th, 2016, 01:25 PM   #3474
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Quote:
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Yes, NS needs 200km/h trains, ERTMS and some new lines.
Except for two classes (SGM and DM'90) all current NS passenger train classes are suitable for 160 km/h operation, yet on the entire 1.5 kV network they can't exceed 140 km/h, because of an antiquated ATC.

And what did our nitwit secretary for infrastructure and environment do? She delayed the roll out of ERTMS, on the grounds that Germany did so as well (and she lacked funding). The fact that among others, Belgium and Denmark haven't delayed their roll out was conveniently omitted. There is a Dutch saying 'If everybody jumps into the ditch/canal, do you do the same?' that is applicable here.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 02:06 PM   #3475
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It was clearly a budget choice. It was either ERTMS rollout or improvements/expansion of Schiphol Airport station.
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:12 PM   #3476
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Overall, why does ERTMS deployment take so long and cost so much? What is the most cumbersome - the radio engineering part, the software bit, or integrating rolling stock with ETCS?
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Old November 14th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #3477
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All of it. And at the same time, the trains have to keep running.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 12:23 AM   #3478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Creating ghost towns is never a good policy, unless you building a scary theme park.

It's always interesting to see the statements when new stations are opened, the predicted traffic will always double or triple in 2020/2025/2030. But what we actually see a much slower growth numbers . The government and the NS are simply not investing enough in new infrastructure and new trains to even make such growth possible. These absurd predictions are just made to mislead (local) politicians to invest public money into large new showy stations. Money that should have been invested in actual measures to make the Dutch railways much more stable in it's daily operations.
Investing is very important, also to make connections much better. I see that tiny investments like the The Hague-Eindhoven train transferring to the HSR between Breda and Rotterdam results in a totally changed schedule improving a lot. From Tilburg Reeshof and Gilze-Rijen the butcher is cutting in the meat of travel times a lot from December to many destinations as a result. And the increase in trains depleting the need for a stopping IC between Nijmegen and Arnhem results in a (required) different schedule for Tilburg Reeshof and Gilze-Rijen as well: after tweaking a lot, going to Schiphol, Roosendaal and Eindhoven is quicker as well. Much quicker than even imaginable by car. But which we never saw coming in our suburb.

What I want to say is that this eventually may lead to much increased ridership even despite the retaining twice-hourly frequency. I'm awaiting the numbers but will only be released in late 2018. Efficiency in the timetable is very important. The win or loss of connections has influenced ridership in the past. As we know here in the Netherlands, standing in the cold for 20 minutes? Nah, I take the car instead/I skip lecture for today .
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Old November 15th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #3479
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Investing is very important, also to make connections much better. I see that tiny investments like the The Hague-Eindhoven train transferring to the HSR between Breda and Rotterdam results in a totally changed schedule improving a lot. From Tilburg Reeshof and Gilze-Rijen the butcher is cutting in the meat of travel times a lot from December to many destinations as a result. And the increase in trains depleting the need for a stopping IC between Nijmegen and Arnhem results in a (required) different schedule for Tilburg Reeshof and Gilze-Rijen as well: after tweaking a lot, going to Schiphol, Roosendaal and Eindhoven is quicker as well. Much quicker than even imaginable by car. But which we never saw coming in our suburb.

What I want to say is that this eventually may lead to much increased ridership even despite the retaining twice-hourly frequency. I'm awaiting the numbers but will only be released in late 2018. Efficiency in the timetable is very important. The win or loss of connections has influenced ridership in the past. As we know here in the Netherlands, standing in the cold for 20 minutes? Nah, I take the car instead/I skip lecture for today .
I'm quite happy for the new schedule of trains to and from my station. Amsterdam Centraal is now faster reached through the IC Direct, currently that involves a 27-min wait in Breda. It's a much smoother travel route than via Den Bosch.
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Old November 15th, 2016, 08:17 AM   #3480
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Well sure but our country is tiny.
Sure, but the national government and the general population is supportive of passenger rail. In the US as you know voted for a President whose political party strongly dislike Amtrak or rail transit in general unless it's private.
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