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Old December 1st, 2016, 03:00 PM   #3521
Slagathor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
And Tallin has a free of charge PT. Now you tell me which city has seen increased PT ridership and modal share...
I have no idea but it honestly doesn't matter because the two cities are wildly incomparable.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 04:07 PM   #3522
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Quote:
Free public transport is a stupid idea, I think we can all agree on that.
That would be an incorrect assumption.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 04:09 PM   #3523
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Took this picture while I was working on a V250 and was surprised to see FS logo's throughout the train.

https://flic.kr/p/PAuajg
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Old December 1st, 2016, 08:13 PM   #3524
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At the time of the construction of the V250 they were also constructing a lot of trains for FS so they've probably used the same breakers to spare money.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 01:29 AM   #3525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Free public transport is a stupid idea, I think we can all agree on that.

I was just bringing an example of what you mentioned. London has a capacity problem on the underground so it's perfectly logical to ask for higher prices during rush hour (if they keep working on increasing the capacity at the same time).
No it isn't. The only criterium here that has anything to say about what is clever or not is the welfare comparison.

Indeed, if they keep working on increasing you said quite correctly, confirming what I said. Such a public transport would be defying its purpose and be imperfect. It is not something to which the system should be designed to, quite the opposite, it is something that the system should solve.

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Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
I have no idea but it honestly doesn't matter because the two cities are wildly incomparable.
Oh it matters, notwithstanding the differences of those two cities.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 02:09 AM   #3526
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We all know there is no such thing as "free" public transportation, it is paid somehow (by taxes collected on the whole populations).

There might or might be not merits regarding several rubrics of social spending for "free at point of use" public services.

Personally, I think free public transportation in a country like Netherlands would be a very inefficient use of money. I rehash my argument:

(1) groups that have low income already have subsidies to use transport at low/zero cost (students, for instance)

(2) total costs of car usage are already high enough to discourage its use if the issue concerns only money

(3) very high / total subsidization of public transportation will just transfer limited public resources to households that already use transit because it is convenient accounting for trip time. It would also create some incentives for people to change from cycling to trams/buses.

In the Randstad, specifically, there is the additional incentive of using more transit because of high housing prices.

If one wants to substantially increase transit use replacing car (not bicycle) use, then this is what would need to be done:

a) build lots of high-density employment centers near the many stations that currently have none, shifting office activity there. Problem: Netherlands has got a historical glut of office space, there are too much vacant office space and building new ones right now is a bad financial proposition

b) build extensive fast trams networks in many cities, subway network in Utrecht, Eindhoven and Den Haag etc. and drastically change zoning plans to build more high-rises near these transit nodes.
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Old December 3rd, 2016, 07:37 PM   #3527
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There may be better ways of funding it though. A high % of the ticket price is consumed by the whole revenue protection process which also slows down the travel process. Advertising, sponsorship, ancillary product & services, charging tourists a one off fee when they enter the country etc etc.
Nobody charges anybody money to use the highways in Holland and nobody seems to have a problem with that. And before anyone says it, car tax is based on emissions not road use and fuel taxes are for the fuel. I don't get a discount on fuel if I explain its for a generator nor is there any obligation that anyone driving on Dutch roads must purchase fuel in the country.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 02:54 AM   #3528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
We all know there is no such thing as "free" public transportation, it is paid somehow (by taxes collected on the whole populations).
Indeed, therefore I wrote "free of charge" .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
There might or might be not merits regarding several rubrics of social spending for "free at point of use" public services.

Personally, I think free public transportation in a country like Netherlands would be a very inefficient use of money. I rehash my argument:
I did not call for that though . I just illustrated that ticket price has substantial influence on the modal split.

But when we are there already, it is not so bad to just look at the total budget of the PT and the share that is privately (tickets without subsidies) financed. The PT is publicly financed for the bigger part anyway. Add to that the costs of enforcing the use of tickets and there's yet more argument for free of charge PT.

As about comparing the total costs of the car with a ticket price. This is one of the biggest fallacies there exist when comparing car and PT and it has nothing to do with the reality. Car represents sunk costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In the Randstad, specifically, there is the additional incentive of using more transit because of high housing prices.

If one wants to substantially increase transit use replacing car (not bicycle) use, then this is what would need to be done:

a) build lots of high-density employment centers near the many stations that currently have none, shifting office activity there. Problem: Netherlands has got a historical glut of office space, there are too much vacant office space and building new ones right now is a bad financial proposition

b) build extensive fast trams networks in many cities, subway network in Utrecht, Eindhoven and Den Haag etc. and drastically change zoning plans to build more high-rises near these transit nodes.
Yes, you would need to differentiate the Randstad and the rest of the country. While it is only logical to build the Randstad PT as an integrated system comparable to a big agglomeration PT, this doesn't hold for the rest of the country. The rest of the country needs very fast and car competitive connection from node to node and from periphery to the core.

->

Therefore Randstad should contribute much more to building of this system agglomeration PT system, which would in turn increase the total capacity and speed, which would in turn make railway more competitive.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 03:15 AM   #3529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
But when we are there already, it is not so bad to just look at the total budget of the PT and the share that is privately (tickets without subsidies) financed. The PT is publicly financed for the bigger part anyway. Add to that the costs of enforcing the use of tickets and there's yet more argument for free of charge PT.

As about comparing the total costs of the car with a ticket price. This is one of the biggest fallacies there exist when comparing car and PT and it has nothing to do with the reality. Car represents sunk costs.
Ditto.
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Old December 11th, 2016, 03:18 PM   #3530
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Today the new R-net services started on the Gouda - Alphen aan den Rijn using Stadler Flirt 2 car EMUs. This line is now contracted by the Province of Zuid Holland, the concession was won by the NS daughter Abellio. But now it's just NS using the R-net brand, which was already used for bus, tram and metro services in the Randstad area.



R-net Stadler Flirt by Momo1435, on Flickr


R-net Stadler Flirt by Momo1435, on Flickr


R-net Stadler Flirt by Momo1435, on Flickr



IMG_7809 by Momo1435, on Flickr


NS / R-net incheckpalen


IMG_7820 by Momo1435, on Flickr


Interieur


R-net Stadler Flirt Interieur by Momo1435, on Flickr


R-net Stadler Flirt Interieur by Momo1435, on Flickr


R-net Stadler Flirt Interieur by Momo1435, on Flickr


R-net Stadler Flirt Interieur by Momo1435, on Flickr


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Old December 11th, 2016, 03:25 PM   #3531
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Plenty of clueless people in Breda today.

----------------
I like the R-Net livery but I dislike how they use it to pretend buses are trams.
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Old December 11th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #3532
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You really can't have missed the new schedule. Announcements at the railway station, Signs/Adds/news reports etc. etc.
I even got a personal letter from the NS stating the main changes at my railway station.
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Old December 11th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #3533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post

You really can't have missed the new schedule. Announcements at the railway station, Signs/Adds/news reports etc. etc.
I even got a personal letter from the NS stating the main changes at my railway station.
The issue was not the new timetable, I guess, but the numerous disruptions, planned or not planned, in/around Rotterdam.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #3534
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The disruptions are all temporary and will be solved gradually. This week is a nightmare to go to Rotterdam from Brabant, no matter if there was a new or an old timetable. One of the works is that Rotterdam Blaak station will see its platforms lowered to (one of the European standards of) 760mm.

From next week, the IC-Direct (Breda-Amsterdam) is getting back on track again, so for most people in and around Tilburg and Breda the situation will be normalized, while the three stations in between see a permanent significant improvement of 9 minutes to Rotterdam caused by shifting the connection . And to Schiphol is even 21 minutes shorter from those stations!

From the week of 23 January, the service between The Hague and Breda via the HST line will be inaugurated, travel times will be faster for Tilburg (city center) and Eindhoven as well. Somewhere later in 2017, the transfer in Breda will be eliminated, ultimately improving the connection to the West of the country, Dordrecht left out crying . But this is for my suburb of Tilburg of no interest as the connected train to Rotterdam is shifted.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #3535
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Some initial renderings of the new intercity trains (ICNG) have shown up in an Alstom video:





I like it.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 07:07 PM   #3536
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very "dutch"
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Old December 16th, 2016, 07:44 PM   #3537
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It doesn't look bad, but I dislike that it doesn't match the rest of the trains.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 08:15 PM   #3538
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It's hideous, but then bright yellow and blue were always a bad combination.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #3539
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It's better than some of the rolling stock out there. I like the bright yellow and I wish the blue was just slightly less saturated.
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Old December 27th, 2016, 04:40 PM   #3540
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In 2017 al electric trains of the Dutch railways will run on electricity produced by windpower.
To celebrate this the CEO of the Dutch railways was strapped to an old windmill .
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