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Old March 16th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #3601
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If they are using LED displays they should alternate the displays, at least the orientation messages. Cost is almost nothing and better than cramping abbreviated words.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #3602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Oh god please don't. NS can't do proper English. Have you ever read their rules and guidelines signs on the trains? What a toe-curling cringe fest. Like it was written by a 12 year old for a school assignment.
Even at my level of proficiency the grammar on these signs looks nasty. I think that, with changing the colour, it is already clear enough for passengers to see that there is something unusual going on there. Like +5min in red is very clear to me that it is a delay. Cancelled: with a stripe going through it, it is clear enough to me that the train is cancelled. Or actually the faded colour and red text says enough as well.

The mentioned accent on the RET is sufficient for me. The sharp contrast with Dutch is annoying sometimes but the information provided will arrive well at native speakers.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #3603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissenberg View Post
Well, if there's will, there's a way. Earlier this year RET started using bilingual announcements as well, and as you can guess it was beyond terrible. But then they hired a British-born voice actress and this is the result.
Always with the snobbish British women... I wonder if it's the same lady who reads the announcements in The Hague's public transport. I dislike her.

Canadians speak the nicest English, please ask them.

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Originally Posted by The Polman View Post
Even at my level of proficiency the grammar on these signs looks nasty. I think that, with changing the colour, it is already clear enough for passengers to see that there is something unusual going on there. Like +5min in red is very clear to me that it is a delay. Cancelled: with a stripe going through it, it is clear enough to me that the train is cancelled. Or actually the faded colour and red text says enough as well.

The mentioned accent on the RET is sufficient for me. The sharp contrast with Dutch is annoying sometimes but the information provided will arrive well at native speakers.
Yeah I generally prefer signs and symbols. If you've ever hired a car in America, you may have noticed they have everything spelled out on the dashboard ("lights", "fuel") where European cars just have symbols. The symbols are nicer.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 07:43 PM   #3604
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Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Yeah I generally prefer signs and symbols. If you've ever hired a car in America, you may have noticed they have everything spelled out on the dashboard ("lights", "fuel") where European cars just have symbols. The symbols are nicer.
Not only dashboards, but road signs too.
"Do not enter", "One way", "Speed limit" – whyyyy?

Maybe Americans just like to put text on everything. Compare the city flag of Breda to the flag of San Francisco
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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:46 PM   #3605
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The first SNG has left the factory in Spain towards the testtrack at Velim (Czech Republic).

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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:59 PM   #3606
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Why is NS ordering both Stadler and CAF trains? Wouldn't maintanance be cheaper if they had just one type of train?
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Old March 17th, 2017, 01:55 AM   #3607
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The SNG tender was won by CAF. The Stadler FLIRT trains were an emergency order as NS suddenly needed more trains than they had planned for due to circumstances partly out of their control.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:56 AM   #3608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
Maybe Americans just like to put text on everything.
Reminds me of this TED video:

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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:20 AM   #3609
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That's where I got it from

Tbh, I could just be presumptuous, because I do not know what is the state of minor flags in other countries. From where I am from in Latvia 2 of some 70–80 municipalities do have flags with their name on it.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:20 PM   #3610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
Not only dashboards, but road signs too.
"Do not enter", "One way", "Speed limit" – whyyyy?
Don't forget that symbols were only recently introduced in Europe (can't talk for other continents/cultures) - before that, lettered signs were ubiquitous. It would almost seem that the whole modernist movement that introduced symbols in the first place was a typically 'European' trait.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:23 PM   #3611
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It's a typical generic thing here in Europe to use simple, easily recognisable flags for subnational/local entities. Look at the mess at the other side of the ocean, using a symbol with complex textures, okay, but either do it realistic or simplistic and in many cases it is neither of both. And worse, writing their names and even slogans on the flag! That's not how it should be, a kid should be able to recognise and to draw it.
But if I can give one away:

Draw, in dark blue, an arrow to the left. Go to the right, at a small distance from the arrow you just drew. There you start drawing the right arrow. Do not attach the lines to each other, rather go to the tail of the left arrow, let the horizontal line at the left arrow go down to the right at an angle of 45* until you reach the same height as the bottom of both arrows and almost reach the leftmost point of the right arrow. Now draw to the bottom end of the right arrow.
Then go to the tail of the right arrow, draw 45* up to the left until you reach the height of the top of both arrows and almost at the tail of the left arrow (before the left tail goes horizontal). Now continue to the left. See?

It represents going forth and back of a train in its journey. Actually very simple and everyone recognises this as the symbol of our railways despite the fact that others took over lines in recent years. It is in use since the railway revolution we had after 1968, ending the time of the negative status quo on the system.
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And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!
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Old March 17th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #3612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alargule View Post
Don't forget that symbols were only recently introduced in Europe (can't talk for other continents/cultures) - before that, lettered signs were ubiquitous. It would almost seem that the whole modernist movement that introduced symbols in the first place was a typically 'European' trait.
We have a different definition of recently

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the basic patterns of most traffic signs were set at the 1908 International Road Congress in Paris. In 1909, nine European governments agreed on the use of four pictorial symbols, indicating "bump", "curve", "intersection", and "grade-level railroad crossing". The intensive work on international road signs that took place between 1926 and 1949 eventually led to the development of the European road sign system.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 05:02 PM   #3613
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Europe has much bigger need for symbols with all its languages.

On the other side, it is argued that pictograms can be dumbing abstract thinking.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #3614
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I was taking the sprinter from Uitgeest to Rotterdam friday and there were actually English anouncements for the large stops. Not in an annoying accent too. Was a first for me, so maybe the NS actually is making everything bilingual in the close future.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 08:09 PM   #3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Europe has much bigger need for symbols with all its languages.
As railway systems predominantly focus on domestic passengers, I think there might be other reasons why symbols became more widespread on the continent than overseas (not taking into account road signs).
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Old March 26th, 2017, 10:29 PM   #3616
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VIRM EMU almost arriving at Amsterdam Amstel Station from it's previous stop Amsterdam Centraal. Taken yesterday.


IMG_1382 by Momo1435, on Flickr
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Old March 27th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #3617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alargule View Post
As railway systems predominantly focus on domestic passengers, I think there might be other reasons why symbols became more widespread on the continent than overseas (not taking into account road signs).
Partially influenced by road symbols in some cases and other things that are common throughout Europe. You still see however different symbols for specific things like train stations (in the Netherlands using a particular Dutch ICM EMU front for that), but at the other side symbols are common because of either European laws like with ERTMS and sometimes as it is just practical because don't forget we have freight traffic as well. It is hard enough already to switch between all the countries for these drivers, some things just had to be common like omitting the last zero from speed limits in certain countries. Not that any cargo train would go 800km/h though .
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Prohibit the construction of new single-family dwellings without stacking apartments in Amsterdam (A10), Rotterdam (motorway ring), The Hague, Utrecht (outer ring), Eindhoven (ring), Tilburg (ringbanen) and Groningen (provincial ring)!

And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!
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Old March 27th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #3618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8166UY View Post
I was taking the sprinter from Uitgeest to Rotterdam friday and there were actually English anouncements for the large stops. Not in an annoying accent too. Was a first for me, so maybe the NS actually is making everything bilingual in the close future.
Since these signs were changed in stations and also having introduced announcements in English at important nodes, this is likely the way the NS is heading to. I heard it as well at Rotterdam Centraal in the SLT. I'm curious what happens in a FLIRT near Eindhoven...

By the way, talking about flirts, April the 3rd. That will be the date of the The Hague-Breda-Eindhoven-reunification via HSR and some extra services seeing the FLIRT being introduced.
- Other trains will be extended
- The reliability of the Breda-Tilburg-Eindhoven section will go down the drain, likely more than 10% of the trains will never be driven
- This will also affect HSR and Rotterdam-The Hague caused by a lack of spare material. The spare material is, against all logic, located at The Hague instead of somewhere in the middle, like the bogus Amsterdam location of all IC Direct spare trains.
- The extended Lelystad-Dordrecht train will be scrapped and terminate at Dordrecht and instead an unfrequent train will go further to Breda
- Another special NS Flirt will be seen from Arnhem to Dusseldorf under the Abellio brand. Finally a local/regional train to Germany from Arnhem!
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Relieving the pressure on Dutch housing market: we need more apartments and taller apartment buildings, no single-family dwellings anymore!

Prohibit the construction of new single-family dwellings without stacking apartments in Amsterdam (A10), Rotterdam (motorway ring), The Hague, Utrecht (outer ring), Eindhoven (ring), Tilburg (ringbanen) and Groningen (provincial ring)!

And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!
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Old March 27th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #3619
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I think they should electrify short sections of railways surrounded by electricity, such as Tiel-Arnhem Zuid.
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Old March 27th, 2017, 04:16 PM   #3620
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- The extended Lelystad-Dordrecht train will be scrapped and terminate at Dordrecht and instead an unfrequent train will go further to Breda
-
There will be 2 Sprinter trains per hour (24 min) and 1 short IC train (18 min) per hour. It is not that bad. I wonder what rolling stock will they use for this Breda-Dordrecht IC shuttle...

I also wonder is a direct Rotterdam - Roosendaal train would be faster if routed via HSL without entering Breda. I'm not sure about the track layout between HSL and the Breda-Roosendal line.
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