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Old April 18th, 2017, 02:21 AM   #3741
Sixhaven
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There are Amsterdam Travel Tickets valid for both GVB and NS services, but I'm not sure that is what you're aiming at:

https://www.ns.nl/producten/en/overi...-travel-ticket
https://www.ns.nl/producten/en/allee...-travel-ticket
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Old April 18th, 2017, 02:36 AM   #3742
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And since a few years you can get a subscription which includes both local trams and busses and NS trains in the region of Utrecht:

https://u-ov.info/mijn-reis-betalen/...stad-en-regio/

Amsterdam doesn't have anything similar yet at the moment I think.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:28 AM   #3743
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I think Amsterdam might adopt something like that after the Noordzuid subway line opens. Then, there will be a fast high-capacity corridor to distribute passengers. If they did that now, GVB (Amsterdam local/regional public transportation authority) pass holders would overwhelm certain trains. Imagine if transferring between Metro and NS was really easy, so that IC trains stopping at Amstel could be used interchangeably with subway - that would bring it quickly to overcapacity, affecting reliability of trips to Maastricht or Nijmegen.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:23 PM   #3744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixhaven View Post
And since a few years you can get a subscription which includes both local trams and busses and NS trains in the region of Utrecht:

https://u-ov.info/mijn-reis-betalen/...stad-en-regio/

Amsterdam doesn't have anything similar yet at the moment I think.
This is a step in the right direction, with rail stations included in the city ticket:



(although Terwijde and Leidsche Rijn should be part of the city IMHO)

There are still two typical limits:
- not available for single trips
- if I understand correctly, this is not the standard city subscription

To have a complete integration, suburban rail should be included by default into all city tickets and subscriptions.
In terms of OV-Chipkaart, this means it should be calculated as a single trip and subject to urban transit rules (e.g. €4 instead of 20 to begin the trip).
In AlexNL's example: there should be no sensible price difference for a Schiedam - Alexander trip via bus, metro or Sprinters.

I understand there are revenue reasons behind the current separation, but as we discussed many times there are other ways to count ridership and split the bill accordingly.
Right now this separation creates a distortion of mobility preferences and thus investments (many may prefer trains but avoid them due to the "new trip" cost).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
...pass holders would overwhelm certain trains. Imagine if transferring between Metro and NS was really easy, so that IC trains stopping at Amstel could be used interchangeably with subway - that would bring it quickly to overcapacity, affecting reliability of trips to Maastricht or Nijmegen.
This is true but applies to a very limited number of cases, which can be solved with specific workarounds.

My point is that all those cities now have a proper and almost dedicated local train service, well separated from intercity traffic (example: Lelylaan is now served only by Sprinters serving the Ring line, while till December the Vlissingen - Lelystad IC called there).

To name some trips for which one may use an IC instead of a Sprinter:
- Zaandam - Amstel
- Schiphol - CS/Zuid
- Schiedam/Alexander - Blaak

All these trips are also served by Sprinters with comparable speed and frequency.
An easy solution is to simply allow subscription holders only on Sprinter trains.
Maybe the impact on IC trains would not be so heavy (ridership shared among many trains) and this limit is not even needed... would be a plus for urban mobility.

Better naming of S-Bahn-like services (S1, S2...) would help and it's anyway something needed at this point, it's pointless to plan and pay for a full S-Bahn and then just forget to name and promote it.



There are also cases in which the IC is the only direct solution, like Hollands Spoor - Laan van NOI and Amsterdam Zuid - Bijlmer. They're so short, I wouldn't even mind about limiting them...
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Last edited by Wilhem275; April 18th, 2017 at 03:48 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:52 PM   #3745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
This is true but applies to a very limited number of cases, which can be solved with specific workarounds.

My point is that all those cities now have a proper and almost dedicated local train service, well separated from intercity traffic (example: Lelylaan is now served only by Sprinters serving the Ring line, while till December the Vlissingen - Lelystad IC called there).

To name some trips for which one may use an IC instead of a Sprinter:
- Zaandam - Amstel
- Schiphol - CS/Zuid
- Schiedam/Alexander - Blaak

All these trips are also served by Sprinters with comparable speed and frequency.
An easy solution is to simply allow subscription holders only on Sprinter trains.
Maybe the impact on IC trains would not be so heavy (ridership shared among many trains) and this limit is not even needed... would be a plus for urban mobility.

Better naming of S-Bahn-like services (S1, S2...) would help and it's anyway something needed at this point, it's pointless to plan and pay for a full S-Bahn and then just forget to name and promote it.
That would defy the entire point of making the whole NS network operate seamlessly within the OV-Chipkaart gates. It would add another layer of "you pay as you go but you can use this train".
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Old April 18th, 2017, 11:29 PM   #3746
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Well, it would just be an option on top of the current setup.

Besides that, the full separation "trains vs. anything else" may not be the most efficient.

First of all I don't get the point of introducing a nationwide ticketing platform and then configure it so that it works as two separate systems.
Unless someone lives inside a station, everyone will need to reach a train before boarding it, so why should the tram trip to the station be fared as it isn't part of the trip itself?

But if a separation is really needed, then suburban trains are much closer to urban transit than to Intercity traffic, for a number of reason.
The "NS network" is just one subset of the Dutch OV system, and for sure it's not one based on a functional criterion.


An ICE and Berlin's S-Bahn are both operated by DB, but there are many good reasons why the latter's fare structure is integrated with the city's system and not DB's own.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; April 18th, 2017 at 11:36 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 11:59 PM   #3747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Unless someone lives inside a station
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Old April 19th, 2017, 12:05 AM   #3748
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And thus I envy you, but that's not the point
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old April 19th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #3749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Unless someone lives inside a station, everyone will need to reach a train before boarding it
Several people live outside the station, but near enough to be able to reach it on foot ;-)

Quote:
An ICE and Berlin's S-Bahn are both operated by DB, but there are many good reasons why the latter's fare structure is integrated with the city's system and not DB's own.
It is not completely correct. S-Bahn trains (not only in Berlin, but there as well) are integrated in both pricing system. E.g. you can buy a train ticket from hamburg Hbf. to Berlin Lichtenberg, which will contain two trips: an ICE between Hamburg Hbf. - Berlin Hbf., and an S-Bahn between Berlin Hbf. - Berlin Lichtenberg. This ticket will be priced completely by Deutsche Bahn.
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Old April 19th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #3750
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I was trying to simplify that info because the lenght of my posts is always out of control

The matter with DB is even more complicated. Yes they sell you a single ticket including city transit, which is convenient; but in fact they're often just adding the price of a single city ticket on top of what you'd pay for the trip from Hbf to Hbf.
If you're a penny-counting nitpick you may prefer to not buy it with them and get a day/weekly pass or a Kurzstrecke once you reach the city


Anyway, can we all agree that integration of S lines with city transit is more important than with long distance trains?
Applying the German integration to the Dutch system would mean to include Sprinters and IC (equivalent to S and RE) within city limits, leaving out ICd and Thalys (IC and ICE).
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old April 23rd, 2017, 10:52 PM   #3751
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Some people reading this might not realise that Strippenkaarten (for single trips) and Sterabonnementen (season tickets) used to be valid on many railway lines, including within Amsterdam and Rotterdam. It is only since the OV-Chipkaart came into use that NS stopped accepting local season tickets.
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Old April 24th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #3752
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You could also buy your local subscriptions with NS.

Back in '06 I lived in Zeeland but worked in The Hague. Every month I bought an NS subscription (trajectabonnement) + a supplement that allowed me to take the tram in The Hague. Both those tickets came out of the yellow NS ticket machine at a train station in Zeeland.
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Old April 24th, 2017, 11:54 PM   #3753
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Who fitted 2 of the HSL tunnels between Moerdijk and Lombardijen with good 4G infrastructure?
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Old April 25th, 2017, 01:50 PM   #3754
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if there is a 4G connection, can they please install WiFi/OBIS in the IC Direct / Den Haag - Eindhoven trains. It's strange that your "premium lines" dont have the same standard as normal intercity trains.
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Old April 25th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #3755
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I got 4G connection with a very strong signal. Worked on my way with Thalys and with the IC to Breda...
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Old April 25th, 2017, 03:18 PM   #3756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
if there is a 4G connection, can they please install WiFi/OBIS in the IC Direct / Den Haag - Eindhoven trains. It's strange that your "premium lines" dont have the same standard as normal intercity trains.
Den Haag to Eindhoven is not advertised as Intercity direct...
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Old April 25th, 2017, 04:02 PM   #3757
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That is why I said IC direct / Den Haag - Eindhoven train, it's the same trainstock.
And while they don't advertise the Den Haag-Eindhoven as Direct, it is a higher-speed/faster service.
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Old April 25th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #3758
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Quote:
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That is why I said IC direct / Den Haag - Eindhoven train, it's the same trainstock.
And while they don't advertise the Den Haag-Eindhoven as Direct, it is a higher-speed/faster service.
I know. I guess they will ultimately extend the IC Direct brand to Eindhoven services when new train stock comes around. But I also read somewhere there is pressure to kill once and for all the high-speed fare supplement for travel between Rotterdam and Schiphol (it has been eliminated from trips between Breda and Rotterdam a while ago).
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Old April 25th, 2017, 11:29 PM   #3759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
if there is a 4G connection, can they please install WiFi/OBIS in the IC Direct / Den Haag - Eindhoven trains. It's strange that your "premium lines" dont have the same standard as normal intercity trains.
NS won't, I have written before here why.
One of the reasons: new stock in the way...
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Old April 25th, 2017, 11:40 PM   #3760
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Does anybody know the planned reopening date of the Hoekse line?
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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