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Old October 30th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #3881
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The only think I don't like about these changes is that they reduce even further the possible scope for "express trains" (ie. a non-stop train Amsterdam-Eindhoven for instance). It means they are going for the "super-subway" approach for the Randstad network and the likelihood of more speed improvement projects (like HSL) decreases
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Old October 30th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #3882
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Seeing as the likelihood of that particular scenario is only decreasing from "probably never" to "most likely never", I think even you can live with it.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #3883
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We might see some 160kph sections in the future I suppose with the 3000V and ERMTS introduction. But that is still 2030+ at least.

Then again, the demand is highly fractured, so a non-stop trains between two cities aren't really needed, because most travel isn't between the two main cities, but more inbetween.

The only stop you could possibly illiminate on the Amsterdam-Eindhoven section is Den Bosch, and that is a major junction for Brabant and East-West traffic so skipping is not a good plan.
Utrecht is the busiest/best connected station in this country, why would you skip it?

To put it in numbers (daily in out):

Eindhoven: 61500
Den Bosch: 45000 (although lower, it is a major junction)
Utrecht: 181000
A'dam Amstel: 30000
Amsterdam: 174000
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Old October 30th, 2017, 11:53 PM   #3884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
In the future the Nijmegen branch will get six trains as well, so it's kind of temporary.
Good to hear. It's very interesting how they are pushing the offer, it's a great example in Europe.

What worries me is that the infrastructure isn't exactly following the service improvements.
The Bijlmer - Houten stretch is a mighty machine, but Houten - Geldermalsen, Arnhem - Nijmegen and Vaartsche Rijn - Veenendaal don't look much advanced compared to the required amount of traffic. Geldermalsen station in particular would need something Breukelen-like.
Also some discussion about Muiderpoort - Bijlmer should be had.

The system can still work, but reliability is at risk then. I'm quite surprised to see these improvements before some extra tracks are laid down.

This would also address the speed issue. As said by da_scotty, there's not much point in skipping the current stations, but on these distances the 140 km/h limit is a sensible issue.
Given that 4-tracks stretches have been built for 200 km/h, and that all future works should follow the same standard, there's no reason why the internal IC service shouldn't be set at 200.
Same costs, but with a serious drop in travel times.

This should be an extra drive for building the missing tracks.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 07:55 PM   #3885
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Capacity on Vaartsche Rijn - Veenendaal is being increased by the Driebergen-Zeist rebuilding project. ProRail are also going to address Geldermalsen by building a dedicated platform for the MerwedeLingelijn (Dordrecht - Geldermalsen).

Doubling the tracks between Houten, Geldermalsen and 's-Hertogenbosch is unlikely to happen anytime soon as this would require the rebuilding of a couple of long bridges across rivers and canals.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 09:48 PM   #3886
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So, it seems they are following an overtaking discipline one these lines.
Every other station allows faster trains to pass Sprinters.

Following the same principle, also Elst shold get an improvement.


Also, any talk of a flying junction south of Den Bosch?
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Last edited by Wilhem275; November 1st, 2017 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old November 1st, 2017, 12:58 PM   #3887
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Yeah, they will begin building it in 5 years or so including a tunnel or something through Vught.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 03:27 PM   #3888
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ATM they are deciding how long the tunnel should be and where it should start.
The tunnel is needed not just because of rail traffic, but also because of level crossings being open only 15min an hour when trains run 6x hour (+2 sprinters) x2 (in both directions).
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Old November 1st, 2017, 05:10 PM   #3889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
ATM they are deciding how long the tunnel should be and where it should start.
The tunnel is needed not just because of rail traffic, but also because of level crossings being open only 15min an hour when trains run 6x hour (+2 sprinters) x2 (in both directions).
The level crossing at Vught is closed for 25 minutes per hour, not 45 minutes.
https://www.prorail.nl/nieuws/vijfde...g-op-overwegen
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Old November 1st, 2017, 07:00 PM   #3890
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Are express tracks Houten- Den Bosch really that hard to build? They can build them separately of the main tracks and use tunnels under the rivers.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 10:16 PM   #3891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertl View Post
The level crossing at Vught is closed for 25 minutes per hour, not 45 minutes.
https://www.prorail.nl/nieuws/vijfde...g-op-overwegen
Still to much.. Am i confused with boxtel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Are express tracks Houten- Den Bosch really that hard to build? They can build them separately of the main tracks and use tunnels under the rivers.
The problem isn't technical.. it's financial. With 4 large bridges/tunnels required it's going to cost a awfull lot.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 02:53 AM   #3892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
Still to much.. Am i confused with boxtel?



The problem isn't technical.. it's financial. With 4 large bridges/tunnels required it's going to cost a awfull lot.
No, you're not confused about the level crossing. The local politicians and media were reporting the 40+ minutes. So ProRail did a count on one of the test days.
Turned out to be 25 of the reported 40+ minutes. Still a lot of time, but considerably less than reported.

Last edited by mistertl; November 2nd, 2017 at 03:47 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 08:57 AM   #3893
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Local politicians from Vught are always making infrastructure works more difficult with NYMBIsm. They are the reason we don't have a full freeway from Tilburg to Den Bosch (A65)
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 01:41 PM   #3894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
In the future the Nijmegen branch will get six trains as well, so it's kind of temporary.

There is news on this issue... http://dlvr.it/Pyr2SS
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Old November 4th, 2017, 02:28 AM   #3895
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December timetable changes have been published.

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Old November 6th, 2017, 09:35 PM   #3896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
ProRail are also going to address Geldermalsen by building a dedicated platform for the MerwedeLingelijn (Dordrecht - Geldermalsen).
Another thought about this project. I don't get why they're not adding an extra platform serving the easternmost track.
It would allow Sprinters from Tiel to enter the station with zero conflicts, do their scheduled stop on that siding and then join the main line when convenient.
As of today they have to interrupt the main line twice, it makes no sense.

This would be ridiculously cheap, the layout would already allow it now.
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; November 6th, 2017 at 09:41 PM.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 10:31 PM   #3897
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They are going to do just that. Once the rebuilding of Geldermalsen is complete, the track layout and usage patterns are to be as follows:



Source: the 'Ontwerp tracébesluit' document at the PHS bibliotheek website.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 02:37 AM   #3898
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Sorry, from the previous link it looked like they were just solving the MerwedeLingelijn conflict.
The detailed project shows how they'll keep the existing logical layout but with a different track design, probably to fit faster points.
http://www.phsbibliotheek.nl/files/O...150f1b9073.pdf
(pages 11-14)

Interesting how there is provision for a Sprinter limited to Geldermalsen, probably to reach the 10' frequency on that level too.


An unrelated question. The PHS plan aims to reach 10' frequency on Amsterdam - Eindhoven and Schiphol - Nijmegen branches.
Is there really no interest in improving connections to places other than the Amsterdam area?
I'm thinking about adding a Den Haag/Rotterdam - Nijmegen instead of the third Schiphol service.

I can't get over the idea of pushing for metro-like frequencies on a single axis and then don't offer even a basic 30' direct connection with the second/third metro area in the country.
Ok, plenty of connections with a change, but that's not the same...
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 03:19 AM   #3899
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They would need to solve the capacity problems Gouda - Utrecht C.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 11:49 AM   #3900
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and they are preventing spaghetti constructions, by bundling/streamlining routes.
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