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Old November 20th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #521
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High-frequency rail project likely to be scrapped.

Published today on De Telegraaf

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Er worden miljarden bespaard op een aantal treinprojecten. Dit geld hoeft dan niet te worden weggehaald bij asfaltprojecten. Dat melden bronnen aan het Binnenhof.

Een van de spoorprojecten die hoogst waarschijnlijk sneuvelen, is het zogenaamde programma ’Hoogfrequent Spoor’, zo zeggen ingewijden binnen de spoorsector en het ministerie van Infrastructuur. Dit programma heeft als doel om op de drukste trajecten elke tien minuten een intercity of sprinter te laten vertrekken. Voor het project was al 2,8 miljard euro gereserveerd.

De besparingen worden gebruikt voor het nieuwe spoorbeveiligingssysteem Ertms, waarvan de aanleg volgens het regeerakkoord in 2016 moet beginnen. Daarvoor is minstens een miljard nodig. Volgens bronnen komt het schrappen van het hoogfrequentspoor de NS niet slecht uit, omdat de spoorwegen dan miljoenen had moeten investeren in nieuwe treinen.
The "Hoogfrequent Spoor" aimed to increase train frequencies on several routes to 1 train every 10 minutes or less on busiest lines.

The project is likely going to be scrapped, ministry sources say. The money saved (€ 2,8 billion) will be partially used to finance some road projects, and partially used to speed up the implementation of ERTMS on Dutch network, stating 2016.

What the article doesn't say is that ERTMS will also increase traffic capacity, up to a point, in the network. I'd like to hear what is ProRail position on this
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Old November 20th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
For example, travel anywhere anytime costs even more than in Switzerland (and ours really does include everything),
The OV Abbonment (travel free anytime + local public transport) includes almost all public transportation services except trains with supplements, some express buses and some ferries.

[/quote] Basically good for old people, students and locals/longer term visitors wanting to see the country during weekends, but not so good for people who'd like to use trains to commute to work.[/QUOTE]

There are other route-specific plans that combine train + public transportation. They are charged on a per-distance basis, but travelling is restricted on a specific route. It's too complicated to explain here how it works, but in a nutshell if you are travelling more than 60km one-way daily by train, it will be always cheaper to buy a free travel anytime pass.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 01:53 PM   #523
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What the article doesn't say is that ERTMS will also increase traffic capacity, up to a point, in the network. I'd like to hear what is ProRail position on this
ProRail already has done a study about this subject in 2010 (Search for the document 'Technische vergelijking tussen NS’54 ATB-EG en ERTMS Level 2').

Result: On the analysed route (Utrecht - Den Bosch) ERTMS L2 will reduce track occupancy to 75% per hour, down from 91% per hour for the current ATB-EG. This would allow for 2 to 3 extra trains per hour. Increasing speeds will reduce travel time, but not necesarily reduce track occupancy, because of the increased speed difference between passenger and freight trains. The results found were considered representative for the entire dutch rail network.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:52 PM   #524
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Maybe they can 4-track Houten-Den Bosch and Breda-Tilburg in a smaller version of that version.

Both are the most critical bottlenecks (other than jucntions requiring flyovers)
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:21 AM   #525
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- Breda-Tilburg is on long term planning, nothing seriously.
- Houten-'s Hertogenbosch is not going to happen soon, simply to many bridges that need to be build, I have heard plans of doubling the tracks in between the bridges.

The 's Hertogenbosch junctions are in the progress of becoming free-flow, and the 's Hertogenbosch - Nijmegen/Utrecht Junction short section is becoming 4-track as well
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 12:11 PM   #526
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- Breda-Tilburg is on long term planning, nothing seriously.
I live very close to that railway. They have 6 passenger trains per hour and a lot of freight traffic. There are usually parked freight trains waiting clearance for their paths on Tilburg yards.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:46 PM   #527
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There are usually parked freight trains waiting clearance for their paths on Tilburg yards.
Everytime you direct a freight train to a siding it influences your service at least 2 times (a train 'slowly' braking from 80 to 40 km/h and accelerating from standstill to 80). I therefore advocate that once a freight train is rolling to keep it rolling untill it is a it's destination, because that way it has the least influence on the other services.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 02:24 PM   #528
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I think those stops are programmed. Breda-Tilburg is just a sector from which, on both ends, 3 and 2 railways converge, respectively (though the HSL doesn't affect the sector for practical matters).
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:06 PM   #529
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The route over Tilburg is used as an escape route for high speed trains, sometimes. If the route towards Rotterdam is blocked, Fyra-trains that are in Breda are sent back to Amsterdam over Tilburg and Utrecht.

Also, if the tunnels at Barendrecht or Rotterdam Blaak are blocked (i.e. because of a fire warning) Thalys trains are sometimes diverted over Tilburg as well. Those trains then leave the HSL at Breda.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #530
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OV-Chipkaart improved

They improved the funcionalities of the OV-Chipkaart (the smartcard used to pay fares and load subscriptions in Netherlands).

Now, ticket machines, by default, ask you to put your card close to the read (the OV-Chipkaart works by radio frequency with proximity, not magnetic reading) before prompting you to buy travel products.

You can now load on your carda day discount in case you are traveling with a travel companion who was a plan that incldues additional discounts for travel companions.

It is now possible to easily fill a claim for refund for dalays, online, for trips paid with the OV-Chipkaart. Much easier than before.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #531
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There are plenty of countries around the world where public transport chip cards systems were implemented. So instead of using one of those systems and customising it for dutch use, it was a case of "Not invented here" and they reinvented the wheel (again!), with all the troubles asociated.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #532
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In my opinion, the NS Ticket Vending Machines are way too slow. It takes about 3 seconds to read products, and about 5 to write them. Compared to Transport for London's machines, which can read an Oster card instantly, this is very slow.

This also applies to the validators used by Veolia and Arriva: it takes several seconds to process a transaction, while the validators used by NS, GVB and RET process a card immediately.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
There are plenty of countries around the world where public transport chip cards systems were implemented. So instead of using one of those systems and customising it for dutch use, it was a case of "Not invented here" and they reinvented the wheel (again!), with all the troubles asociated.
Well, I doubt that systems used in Urban transport networks with simple tariff structures would be possible to implement as-is on the Dutch Network. The Netherlands are the first country in the world actually attempting to have a signle smart card system that can be used everywhere.
It's not so much "not invented here", but more "nobody has tried this before..."
(edit: And the technology used in "those other countries" was invented in the Netherlands...)

Switzerland is also working on a smart card system for public transit. They will have to "invent" one themselves too, as all the current systems cannot made to work in a Swiss context.

Last edited by K_; November 26th, 2012 at 12:43 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #534
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The OV Chipkaart is now going to work fine. It should have had all these capabilities from its introduction in 2010.

I think passengers in Netherlands mostly got used to how it works. The only occasional source of misunderstandings is the fact you must check in/out when transferring between NS and non-NS heavy rail.

I also read some people mistakenly transfer to Randstad Rail in Den Haag forgetting it is not part of the heavy rail system.

Other than that, the system is quite useful, it loads all subscriptions, it calculates the applicable fare with any loaded discounts plans etc.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #535
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In my opinion, the NS Ticket Vending Machines are way too slow. It takes about 3 seconds to read products, and about 5 to write them. Compared to Transport for London's machines, which can read an Oster card instantly, this is very slow.
Oyster and OV Chipcard use the same technology, which actually was developed by a Dutch company...
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Old November 26th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #536
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The Fyra mess continues...

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...l#.ULO1teTTsud
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Old November 26th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #537
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Just to add a bit more fun to the bundle of joy that is called the V250:

Two V250 trains stranded on the HSL within the past 7 days. Both times, the train had to be evacuated, causing delays. This morning, the 7:25 Schiphol -> Rotterdam train failed at Hoofddorp. At 10:30 the evacuation was still ongoing. Around 12:30, the train was still on the HSL. Fyra and Thalys services were heavily disrupted.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #538
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Old news.

SNCB has agreed on commercial terms to operate the Breda shuttles.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #539
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Old news.

SNCB has agreed on commercial terms to operate the Breda shuttles.
Yes, but what you fail to mention is that SNCB demands to be compensated for the losses they will be making on that connection (at least € 11,4 million euros each year, according to SNCB predictions). As the Belgian State is unwilling to fully pay that amount, a proposal has been submitted to the Dutch State asking them to pay for 50%.

I think it's unlikely that the Dutch State will accept: the HSL-South was awarded to HSA with the idea of making a profit out of it. Also, providing subsidy (which this basically is) might be illegal under Dutch or EU law.

Furthermore, the agreement proposed does NOT meet the requirements as laid out in the concession which was granted to HSA back in 2001. Back in 2005, the State agreed to alter the terms of the concession to the following:

- 32 daily trains Amsterdam - Breda and back
- 32 daily trains Amsterdam - Rotterdam and back
- 16 daily trains Amsterdam - Brussels and back
- 8 daily trains The Hague - Breda - Brussels and back
- At least 10 times Amsterdam - Paris and back, but HSA is obliged to lobby for 16 times a day

While the offer laid out by SNCB fulfills the requirements for Amsterdam - Brussels, it doesn't match The Hague - Brussels. If any of our PMs have any balls, they will object to the proposal laid out by SNCB - even if this means that we will lose the fast, non Thalys, connection to Brussels.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #540
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Any more info about this accident?
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...2#.ULP3PIbe-uo
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