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Old September 11th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #921
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And NS realises that as well, that's why they've entered into a partnership with several local taxi companies to offer the so-called "NS Zonetaxi": for the first couple of (fixed) kilometers, the customer pays a fixed price.

- 1 zone (up to 2 km from the station) costs € 7
- 2 zones (up to 4 km) costs € 11
- 3 zones (up to 6 km) costs € 15
Well, NS paid for me once 200 € taxi bill when their trains broke down and my plane did not want to wait .

I could believe in an unlimited plan if it covered all public transport and plus some 100 km taxi credit. I mean, if unlimited plan should be able to compete with a car, it should offer basically the same service as a car. This is also the direction I think the public transport should be heading and will be heading combining advantages from Public and Private transports.

Small units able to do the last mile, combining in multiple units, at fast, congestion free, care free, long sections, and doing the last mile individually again.

This will happen with the advent of AI driving.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #922
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How much is a regular single from Roosendaal to Brugge? The NS Hispeed site says €26 but the NMBS site says €19.70.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #923
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When are the barriers (poortjes) going to be closed at NS stations? What will happen to people with paper international or home print tickets? I understand they will be unmanned, unlike the ones in the UK. In the UK, if there are no staff available, then they have to open the barriers.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #924
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And there's another option: apart for who lives in the fields, using only PT + taxi every time PT is not available is probably much cheaper than buying a car, and still having the freedom to travel at any time. Of course you must live in a place with a good taxi offer.
When I still lived in the Netherlands (without car btw...) I used to tell everyone that you could take a lot of taxis with the money you saved by not owning a car. I was a free lance IT contractor then, and travelled all over the country. First class train, and taxis, and spend less then what I would have spend had I had a typical company car. And the time in the train I could use productively, and even charge to my customers :-)

Now in Switzerland it's even easier. Car sharing is very well organised here, as is public transport, and I can live perfectly without a car. The money I have been saving since I started working by not having a car will probably allow me to retire about 10 years early.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #925
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When are the barriers (poortjes) going to be closed at NS stations? What will happen to people with paper international or home print tickets? I understand they will be unmanned, unlike the ones in the UK. In the UK, if there are no staff available, then they have to open the barriers.
There will not be closed barriers at unmanned stations.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I could believe in an unlimited plan if it covered all public transport and plus some 100 km taxi credit. I mean, if unlimited plan should be able to compete with a car, it should offer basically the same service as a car. This is also the direction I think the public transport should be heading and will be heading combining advantages from Public and Private transports.
I have a Swiss "GA", a card that allows me unlimited travel on al PT. And for most of the places that I need to get to, both privately and for work, PT is about as fast as a car. So I don't own one. For the times I need one I take a taxi (don't see why it should be included in my PT pass) or use one of the many cars www.mobility.ch has everywhere.

Works very well.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #927
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And NS realises that as well, that's why they've entered into a partnership with several local taxi companies to offer the so-called "NS Zonetaxi": for the first couple of (fixed) kilometers, the customer pays a fixed price.

- 1 zone (up to 2 km from the station) costs € 7
- 2 zones (up to 4 km) costs € 11
- 3 zones (up to 6 km) costs € 15
The zonetaxi is a good idea, but implementation is flawed. You cannot use it if you don't live in the Netherlands. And that's a pity, since that excludes quite a few potential users.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #928
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When I still lived in the Netherlands (without car btw...) I used to tell everyone that you could take a lot of taxis with the money you saved by not owning a car. I was a free lance IT contractor then, and travelled all over the country. First class train, and taxis, and spend less then what I would have spend had I had a typical company car. And the time in the train I could use productively, and even charge to my customers :-)
O i wish more people would think like you.... not only they would save money but the society as a whole (maybe not car makers but....)
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Old September 16th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #929
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There will not be closed barriers at unmanned stations.
Are Vlaardingen Oost and Maasluis manned? According to

http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/reisinfor.../i-n/maassluis
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/reisinfor...aardingen-oost

they have OV-Chipkaart poorten.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #930
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O i wish more people would think like you.... not only they would save money but the society as a whole (maybe not car makers but....)
Also, less tax raised from petrol. Not a good reason of course. Economic evaluation of transport schemes in the UK takes into account tax revenue from petrol sales. So if a train, tram or bus scheme takes cars off the road, the reduced petrol consumed goes against the scheme. Is that the same in NL?
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Old September 16th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #931
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The zonetaxi is a good idea, but implementation is flawed. You cannot use it if you don't live in the Netherlands. And that's a pity, since that excludes quite a few potential users.
Same problem with the OV-Fiets. I suppose you still have the alternative of more expensive taxis and bike hire.

Is there no more Treintaxi where you shared with other passengers? I remember it being quite cheap, whereas I don't really want to pay €7 for a 2 km trip. Normal taxis must be really expensive in NL (I've never used a taxi in NL).
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Old September 16th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #932
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Are Vlaardingen Oost and Maasluis manned? According to

http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/reisinfor.../i-n/maassluis
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/reisinfor...aardingen-oost

they have OV-Chipkaart poorten.
But at the moment the gates are open everywhere. I wonder if they ever will be closed. What will they otherwise do if someone arrives with a paper ticket in Maassluis?
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Old September 16th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #933
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But at the moment the gates are open everywhere. I wonder if they ever will be closed. What will they otherwise do if someone arrives with a paper ticket in Maassluis?
Surely they will have to close at some point, otherwise it will be an embarrassment! Possibly they can use a camera. In the UK a few stations have some barriers unmanned at a quiet part of the station but they have a camera where you can show the ticket to a member of staff who can open the barrier remotely.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #934
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At the unmanned station Hoofddorp station there are gates as well. A month ago NS replaced the older gates for new gates, I wonder why? The old and new gates were identic. In my opinion they only have to replace new software or whatever instead of the replace whole gateconstructions.

Also the older gates never been closed before and the newer gates aren't closed either.

Btw there are more unmanned railwaystations with gates especially around Amsterdam. Lelylaan, Muiderpoort, Duivendrecht, RAI, etc.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #935
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Surely they will have to close at some point, otherwise it will be an embarrassment!
It's already far to late to save them from embarrassment...
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Old September 17th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #936
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I don't understand K_ obsession with the extremely tiny percentage of travelers who'd arrive is - say - Maasluis with a paper ticket without using any possible solutions like small machines that dispense disposable chipkaarts (like those used for single-trips on RET or GVB) on International trains..

At the very worst, they could use some token where they press a button and some remote operator opens the gate.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:43 AM   #937
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From what I've heard, NS is working on equipping the gates with barcode readers so that paper tickets issued abroad can be used to independently open the gate.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 08:43 AM   #938
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I don't understand K_ obsession with the extremely tiny percentage of travelers who'd arrive is - say - Maasluis with a paper ticket without using any possible solutions like small machines that dispense disposable chipkaarts (like those used for single-trips on RET or GVB) on International trains..
I don't understand your obsession with a flawed system that was from the outset a "solution in search of a problem". There is nothing wrong with paper tickets that requires their replacement with something more complicated.
The problem of the "tiny minority" that will still enter the system with paper tickets is just one of many fundamental flaws in the system. The biggest flaw is that the passengers can no longer verify themselves that they are in possession of the correct travel entitlement, which means that the PT company must default to assuming the customer is honest and acting in good faith when confronted with a problem[1], and as a result the main aim of the system, reducing fare evasion, is actually missed, and fare evasion will increase, especially if as you suggest:

Quote:
At the very worst, they could use some token where they press a button and some remote operator opens the gate.
Sure, so then it just becomes a matter of being a good talker to travel for free on PT...
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Old September 17th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #939
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From what I've heard, NS is working on equipping the gates with barcode readers so that paper tickets issued abroad can be used to independently open the gate.
So the following needs to happen first before NS can close its gates:
- UIC needs to finalize a standard for the barcodes used on international tickets, and e-tickets.
- All UIC members need to implement that standard...

I guess it won't be soon then...
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Old September 17th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #940
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The biggest flaw is that the passengers can no longer verify themselves that they are in possession of the correct travel entitlement, which means that the PT company must default to assuming the customer is honest and acting in good faith when confronted with a problem[1], and as a result the main aim of the system, reducing fare evasion, is actually missed, and fare evasion will increase
It doesn't seem to work like that in London. Transport for London and the Train Operating Companies are quite happy to prosecute people or give Penalty Fares to people without properly validated Oyster cards.

However, enforcement only really happens when official 'Revenue Protection Officers' board the train, whose job is only to check tickets and give fines. Normal guards and normal barrier people cannot give these fines.
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