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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #1021
Grzegorz.Janoszka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
I just had a look at their paper tickets and they are not cheap. €2.50 for city and €4 for longer distance buses. Most people travelling shorter distances would be better off with an OV-Chipkaart. Some longer distance trips would be cheaper with the €4 paper ticket.
Correct. Ie the bus 175 from Haarlem Station to Amsterdam Arena costs about 4.50€ with the ov chipcard and 4€ with the paper ticket bought from the driver. There are other examples with similar long routes.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #1022
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You can also buy anonymous OV-Chipkaarts in Netherlands.
But "anonymous" means it is not assigned to one person. You can still track who is the user of the card as you can upload the money on it mostly using the pin card. Can you do it using cash only?
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Old September 27th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #1023
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But "anonymous" means it is not assigned to one person. You can still track who is the user of the card as you can upload the money on it mostly using the pin card. Can you do it using cash only?
Yes, you can.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #1024
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Ring rail roads in the Netherlands

Recently I have been visiting more often some railway stations in the Netherlands (Amsterdam Centraal, Haarlem, Leiden and so on) and I have noticed every now and then fright trains passing the main stations, sometimes even directly at one of the platforms. I think it happens quite often in Amsterdam Centraal.
I haven't seen such thing in Germany and I noticed that most big German cities have ring rail roads so fright trains can bypass the main passenger stations. Why isn't it the case for Amsterdam? Why do fright trains pass this station, especially in peak hours?

Thanks for any answers.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #1025
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That's because there aren't many routes in the Netherlands which go around city centers. A couple of years ago the purpose-built Betuweroute freight corridor opened, which is meant for freight traffic from Rotterdam to Germany and vice versa. At Meteren (near 's-Hertogenbosch) and at Elst (near Arnhem) junctions were built to allow freight trains to enter and leave the Betuweroute.

In the case of Amsterdam: the harbours are quite close to Amsterdam Central station, and are probably intended to go to Germany. The only possible route is through Amsterdam Centraal, as there are no other routes.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 05:08 AM   #1026
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And even with bypasses, freight trains in Germany are sometimes diverted through main stations anyway. It is not uncommon to see tank wagons in Köln Hbf...
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Old October 9th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #1027
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They do get in the way sometimes but it often isn't feasible to construct the bypasses. Just look at the map of Amsterdam and how a railway line might go from the harbor towards the East without going through the city. It's virtually impossible. And don't say "tunnel", those are fiendishly expensive in our marshland.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #1028
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And the citizens of Amsterdam are scared by tunnels after the Noord/Zuidlijn fiasco (despite the fact that the tunnel boring itself has given almost no troubles).
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Old October 9th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #1029
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They should build a new combined subway/freight rail line with 4 tracks. The subway would have the following stations: Westerpark, Joordan, Dam/Rokin, Stadhuis, Plantage, Osterpark (and then the freight line would joing the tracks with a flyover near Westergraaf yard).
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Old October 9th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #1030
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To what extent? We already said freight traffic is not that intense... and remember that subways and freight railways need much different gauges and gradients (=> +€€€).

People can just live with the fact that some freigh train will go through a station, sometimes.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 06:11 PM   #1031
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At least, it should NOT be diesel trains, always electrical locos.

===============

Freight trains are a problem near the place I live. The railway between Breda and Tilburg Uni. accommodates several freight movements per hour, and also 6 passenger trains (to be increased to 8 in 3 years if NS plans are adopted with new Amsterdam-Eindhoven trains via HSL). We routinely can see freight trains parked at Tilburg waiting for clearance, and any delay wreaks havoc on schedule. There is limited capacity for waiting freight trains, especially eastbound trains, do they cannot hold them there much if passenger trains are disrupted. I'm actually surpised how many freight trains pass here and I wonder where do they came from, since any Rotterdam-bound traffic from/to Germany uses the Betuweroute.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #1032
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Station naming inconsistency

ProRail and the rail companies usually do a good job on signage and standardization of pretty much everything possible among stations (panels, ticket machines, signs etc).

Something that is a mess, though, is station naming for cities with more than one station.

In some cases they adopt "Centraal" on the name to make that station distinguished from others with the same city name, thus Rotterdam Centraal (making it distinguished from Rotterdam Blaak, Rotterdam Alexander and others), Den Haag Centraal, Amsterdam Centraal etc.

However, other cities with two or three stations sharing the city name don't have a station called "Centraal". Tilburg has tree stations (Tilburg -, - Reeshof, - Universiteit). Arnhem has five (Anrhem-, -Zuid, -Velperpoort, -Presikhaaf, -Oosterbeek). Leeuwarden has three, Nijmegen has four...

I think they should adopt some criteria to rename all stations of cities with more than one station named after them in a way that either remove the city prefix or puts a - Centraal suffix on the major station. They could even adopt just the "C." (like the Germans adopt Hpf.)
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Old October 9th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #1033
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The "Centraal" suffix was given to a few stations a long, long time ago. Nowadays NS pretty much refuses to name any station "Centraal" as the name does not always reflect the status of the station.

Take Kampen for instance: it has two stations, one as the terminus of the Zwolle - Kampen shuttle service, and one at the Hanzelijn: Kampen Zuid. "Kampen" station is close to the city center but only has trains to Zwolle, while Kampen Zuid has a direct train to Amsterdam and at the same time exposes hubs such as Almere and Weesp. I'd say that Kampen Zuid is of bigger importance to Kampen than the old station, despite being further away from the city centre.

Regarding your freight trains question: a lot of these trains come from Belgium (through Roosendaal) and are heading towards Venlo to cross the border there (or vice versa). For trains coming from Rotterdam, the Betuweroute might not be the best fit as it has its own technical characteristics (25 kV, ERTMS) and is not always the best route. The Betuweroute terminates at Emmerich, while Venlo might be a more logical target for some trains.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #1034
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How long will the Zwolle - Kampen shuttle continue running? I know there were some plans to convert it into a tram-train, but that they were later scrapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
At least, it should NOT be diesel trains, always electrical locos.
Why?
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:27 PM   #1035
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Was there a particular reason why the stations called 'CS' were renamed to 'Centraal' around 1998 ish?
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Old October 9th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #1036
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It had something to do with the top 5 busiest railway stations of the Netherlands. Namely Rotterdam centraal, Amsterdam centraal, Utrecht centraal, Leiden centraal and The Hague centraal.

Also a cheaper option is just to make a free platform track where it can safely pass a station for example at Leiden centraal.

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Old October 9th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #1037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Why?
Diesel fumes make stations dirty over time with soot. Just take a look at London terminals with plenty of diesel traffic.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #1038
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"Plenty" is different from "sometimes"; and when it happens, freight trains usually don't stand in the station.

And please don't go over with the nanny rethorics of the super-unsafe freight train passing along a platform...


All these things only add complications to the railway. In these days, we are getting to the point that certain infrastructures are not built just because they reached such a degree of complication that in the end it makes costs overcome advantages...

I'm very harsh on this point because I'm used to propose very practical solutions about railways and every time I receive a truckload of complaints about nothing, then everything gets stuck...
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old October 9th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #1039
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Also if diesel traffic is low and in transit? Diesel trains in London idle on place for some time, so it must be different.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I'm very harsh on this point because I'm used to propose very practical solutions about railways and every time I receive a truckload of complaints about nothing, then everything gets stuck...
I feel your pain. I've been involved in a rail infrastructure project at the planning stage and the shit storms coming from all directions are just sheer. I used to fantasize about standing up at meetings and just yelling "Everyone SHUT THE **** UUUUUUPP!"
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