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Old December 6th, 2013, 03:39 AM   #1121
MrAronymous
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Intercity Direct is just a temporary name, right? Until there are actual high speed trains running between Amsterdam and Breda?
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Old December 6th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #1122
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Considering that there are no plans for that, temporary could turn out to be pretty long.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #1123
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The Dutch are idiots...

Ever since they "privatized" their railways, the NS has proven to be nothing more than a racket designed to pocket as much taxpayers' money as possible while delivering substandard service. I honestly wonder how much their politicians take in bribes for letting this go on.

Maybe they should just dismantle that entire company and let Deutsche Bahn take the intercity rail over. Hell, probably PKP will even do a better job delivering better service at lower prices... Local and regional rail transport can then be left to the municipalities and the provinces.

Either that, or re-nationalize that mess and start holding some serious people responsible for all of that...
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Old December 7th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #1124
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I don't see why NS is doing so badly out there. Yes, there is the HSA controversy, but the rest of the service operates reasonably.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #1125
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The Dutch Government does indeed take bribes from the NS. In the last 10 years the NS paid it's single shareholder, the Dutch Government 2 billion Euro's in dividend. It's something that will end now since the NS stopped making money because of the Fyra debacle. So these scandalous transactions will stop, no more dirty money.

Other companies won't necessarily do better, they will have to use the same infrastructure as the NS and the same rolling stock. It's not like all bottlenecks in the network will suddenly disappear when another company takes over, the tracks are the responsibility of government after all. And where would the DB or the PKP get the rolling stock and the staff that is certified on for the Dutch network? Basically everything would remain the same in the short term, only in the long term things could be different. But since the state will loose lots of money when they drop the NS there will also be less investments in the rail infrastructure. The money has to come from somewhere after all. The money that the government is losing because HSL problems are already coming out of the infrastructure budget.

Turning back the deregulation is an option, but it will most likely not happen since there will cause some serious issues with the EU.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
The Dutch are idiots... Ever since they "privatized" their railways, the NS has proven to be nothing more than a racket designed to pocket as much taxpayers' money as possible while delivering substandard service. I
1) NS has not been privatized. How often does this need repeating?
2) In comparison to the rest of Europe NS still offers an excellent service.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 03:43 PM   #1127
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Just read that a quarter of all Dutch railway services are subjected to delays.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #1128
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Of the trains 15% had a departure delay of 1-3 minutes, 5% had a delay of 3-4 minutes, 5% had a delay of 5 minutes or more, and 1,3% were cancelled.
They did not look into how many trains arrived to late, far more relevant imo. The concession states that 93% of the trains have to arrive on time (with a margin of 5 minutes)
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Old December 9th, 2013, 02:08 AM   #1129
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They didn't look at arrival times as raw information is not published by NS and ProRail. Attempts by RTL to obtain the information from the Ministry of Infrastructure have been blocked for years now, so they had to resort to departures...
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Old December 9th, 2013, 07:03 AM   #1130
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Quote:
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They didn't look at arrival times as raw information is not published by NS and ProRail. Attempts by RTL to obtain the information from the Ministry of Infrastructure have been blocked for years now, so they had to resort to departures...
Departure delays are more common than arrival delays. Especially if you wait for connections, something that should be encouraged, not condemned. It's more correct to measure delayed passengers, as SBB does.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 09:27 AM   #1131
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Is real time information open source for Dutch trains? It is the UK, so enthusiasts have made their own websites showing real time information that is better than what is offered by the train companies such as:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/GTW
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Old December 9th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #1132
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It's more correct to measure delayed passengers, as SBB does.
Have to agree with that. Dutch (and Swiss) trains wait for connections which make punctuality statistics worse. You don't want it to be like Britain which has a 'no connection' policy so almost no train waits for another one, even if it has to only wait one minute for the connection, meaning that passengers have to wait another hour for the next train. This is to make the statistics look good and to avoid fines from Network Rail, the infrastructure operator.

I would guess that Dutch trains will be less likely to wait for each other once trains run every 10 minutes on much of the network.

One problem with measuring arrival time is that the timetable can be padded out. In Britain, the time taken to travel between the last two stations is inflated artificially to make the arrival time look better, meaning you arrive early a lot of the time.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #1133
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Why don't Dutch trains accept Visa/Mastercard at most stations? I can understand that they don't want to pay the transaction fees charged by the banks, but they could offer Visa/Mastercard at all stations like they do at Schiphol for an extra charge. Some countries don't issue Maestro cards very much, if at all. Also petrol/gas stations in NL seem to have no problem accepting Visa/Mastercard.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Is real time information open source for Dutch trains? It is the UK, so enthusiasts have made their own websites showing real time information that is better than what is offered by the train companies such as:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/GTW
You mean something like this?
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Old December 9th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #1135
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You mean something like this?
Yes, that looks cool.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #1136
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There is some data available: Dutch Railways publishes an API (www.ns.nl/api) which can be used for journey planning and checking realtime departure information. The "Reisplanner Xtra" application offered by NS uses this same API. Apart from that, recently NS started publishing "InfoPlus DVS" data to the NDOV Loket, which has realtime information about departures and train composition. For a demo: OVtijden.com.

In my experience NS trains do not wait for connecting trains, unless it concerns the last train of the day. I just saw a connecting train leaving the platform while the doors of the train I was on opened.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #1137
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In my experience NS trains do not wait for connecting trains, unless it concerns the last train of the day. I just saw a connecting train leaving the platform while the doors of the train I was on opened.
Really? The timetable is clearly designed that trains meet at strategic locations so that passengers can transfer from one to another. I admit I only travel by train in NL once or twice a year but I have always noticed trains meeting at places like Amersfoort and Zwolle and waiting if they are late. Maybe not at places like Amsterdam Sloterdijk where trains cannot hang around, blocking tracks.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 12:27 PM   #1138
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On paper it all works out, but even a slight delay will cause you to miss your connecting train as it usually does not wait.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #1139
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The problem at for instance Amersfoort is that intercity trains heading west can cause problems at Utrecht and Amsterdam even if they're only a few minutes late. Similar problems occur at more stations in the network.

To prevent this they decided a few years ago to just run according to the time table even if that means lots of travellers missing their connections.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #1140
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To prevent this they decided a few years ago to just run according to the time table even if that means lots of travellers missing their connections.
Wow, that's quite a bombshell to me. For years I have been posting on British forums that they should follow the Dutch/Swiss example of carefully planned connections that wait a few minutes in case of delays. Now it seems that the Dutch have copied the British!
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