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Old December 13th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #1181
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I just looked on the NS-Reisplanner for a trip from Vlissingen to Roodeschool and I noticed it no longer tells you that you have to get a paper ticket to get the €24.60 fare (which is the standard maximum fare in the Netherlands). If you used an OV-Chipkaart, you used to have to pay separately for the NS and Arriva parts of the journey. That's good news, as I thought they would ensure that you pay for each company separately when (if?) they withdraw paper tickets.

Do you still have to touch out at the NS-reader and touch in at the Arriva reader in Groningen station, even though it looks like the fares are now integrated?

This may have changed ages ago, but I have only just noticed.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #1182
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There will be overnight trains between Utrecht and Amersfoort at the weekend from the start of the new timetable.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #1183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Do you still have to touch out at the NS-reader and touch in at the Arriva reader in Groningen station, even though it looks like the fares are now integrated?

This may have changed ages ago, but I have only just noticed.
Yes, you still have to do that.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #1184
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Night trains are not a bad idea, but I think there should be some surcharge that allowed them to run more trains and still not have its huge costs.

Previously, all station entrances where night trains operate are staffed on passageways, and only people with tickets can enter the platforms. Last time I took a night train to Schiphol was in 2010, I'm not sure whether this procedure is still in place.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #1185
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When I arrive in Breda by night train (doesn't happen a lot), I usually see that the entrance to the station is guarded by a crew of at least 4 Service & Veiligheid (Service and Safety) people that check tickets of people entering the station.

The night trains that run in Brabant are not profitable, which is why NS demands the province to compensate for the losses incurred by the operator. Personally I wouldn't mind paying a small surcharge (say € 2 for a trip) to take a night train, as it's leasure. Some people might frequently take a night train (in the Randstad) to get to work, to compensate them the surcharge could be waived if they have Traject Vrij or Altijd Vrij.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #1186
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The Netherlands must be unique in Europe having a daily hourly overnight train services between major cities. My main interest in overnight services is not to get home after a night out, but to get to places early in the morning, especially airports.

I deliberately chose where I live, near Three Bridges station near Gatwick Airport, because it has a 24 hour train service to central London. That means I can catch early morning trains from any central London station, or get to any London airport at any time.

If I lived in the Netherlands it would have to be where there is a 24 hour train service (so somewhere on the Utrecht to Amsterdam to Rotterdam route) or maybe a 24 hour bus service connecting to the overnight train service, such as somewhere on the N30 between Haarlem and Schiphol.

Obviously the main barrier against overnight train services is the need to close the line for engineering work. However, if you have bi-directional signalling, or 4 tracks, you can keep the service running while some of the tracks are being worked on.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 05:53 PM   #1187
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Old December 14th, 2013, 06:13 PM   #1188
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Old December 14th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #1189
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That cabride comprises the new Hanzelijn, opened 2012 (for those unfamiliar with Dutch network).

It was wasted opportunity to bring high-speed rail to Northern Netherlands, but still an improved that reduced travel times between Amsterdam and Groningen/Leeuwarden and anything between.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
However, if you have bi-directional signalling, or 4 tracks, you can keep the service running while some of the tracks are being worked on.
Starting from tomorrow, new Health and Safety regulations come into effect in the Netherlands. The new rules explicitly prohibit to work on a section of track when an adjacent section is still in service.

As a consequence, on some days night trains between Amsterdam, Schiphol and Leiden will be axed and replaced with buses. Between Rotterdam and The Hague trains will sometimes be diverted over Gouda, Delft will then be served by buses.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #1191
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Starting from tomorrow, new Health and Safety regulations come into effect in the Netherlands. The new rules explicitly prohibit to work on a section of track when an adjacent section is still in service.

As a consequence, on some days night trains between Amsterdam, Schiphol and Leiden will be axed and replaced with buses. Between Rotterdam and The Hague trains will sometimes be diverted over Gouda, Delft will then be served by buses.
Oh yes, that is mentioned here, as well as disruption to late trains on other lines:

http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/blind/die...aatste-treinen

Have there been accidents as a result of trains running next to people working on the track? Are these restrictions similar to that in other countries?
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Old December 14th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #1192
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Italy created such a law in recent times - and, similarly, I have no news of those kind of accidents.
This is just one more step towards the riduction of capacity of the network...
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Old December 15th, 2013, 11:38 AM   #1193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Have there been accidents as a result of trains running next to people working on the track? Are these restrictions similar to that in other countries?
I know several countries have security rules dependent on the speed of trains on the running track next to the one being maintained. You have different rules if the trains go 40 kph and different if they go 100 kph. But definitely people work on the maintained track while the other one is still under service.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #1194
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Starting from tomorrow, new Health and Safety regulations come into effect in the Netherlands. The new rules explicitly prohibit to work on a section of track when an adjacent section is still in service.
There is always one detail that seems to be overlooked: It's usually freight trains that suffer most from this new rule, because a lot of them run at night, which has gotten a lot more complicated with this rule. You also can't simply reschedule a freight train to the day time period, because of limited availability of locomotives and infrastructure (a lot of them enter or exit the country in the east and south). All of this because - totally unjustified in my opinion - passenger trains are considered more important and track workers seem to have trouble remaining inside their assigned working area.
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Old December 16th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #1195
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You are absolutely correct with that statement. However, ProRail has made sure that no destination will become unreachable because of maintenance windows. They built a website where you can see the different corridors and the train paths to get there during the various nights of the day: www.rijdentijdensohr2014.nl
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #1196
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Signal-breach protection + ERTMS investments

Quote:
All signals on the Dutch railways are to be fitted with an improved emergency braking system, junior transport minister Wilma Mansveld announced on Thursday.

All signals are currently fitted with a system which should automatically stop trains if they threaten to go through a red light at speeds higher than 40 kph.


However, an improved version of the ATB system stops trains at lower speeds and this is now to be fitted to 2,800 signals which don’t yet have it, Mansveld said.

Railway track company Prorail estimates this will cost €112m.

Last year trains drove through red lights 173 times, and while this is down sharply on 10 years ago, the minister said she wants further reductions. Prorail has set a target of just 10 instances within four years, news agency ANP said.

The cabinet has also reserved €2bn to expand use of a European rail safety system known as Ertms.

One person was killed last year when a train drove through a red light and ploughed into another train on the outskirts of Amsterdam.
- See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive....C9z1oX43.dpuf
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 12:06 AM   #1197
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Wow. All this going on while in the UK we are developing techniques to electrify lines while running goes on on the adjacent track.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 01:18 AM   #1198
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ATB-Vv (the 'improved' version of ATB) will not significantly further increase safety on the railway. A few years ago a train crossed a signal at danger near Harmelen at a speed of 104 km/h. ATB-Vv would not have prevented this scenario from happening, as the system is not designed for it. ATB-Vv is designed to prevent SPADs at speeds between 0 km/h and 70 km/h, yet ATB-EG (which should prevent the SPAD from happening) is satisfied when the driver applies mild braking, as the driver at Harmelen did.

ATB-Vv is a waste of money considering that its successor, ERTMS, is right around the corner and will provide much better safety.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 11:39 AM   #1199
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Wow. All this going on while in the UK we are developing techniques to electrify lines while running goes on on the adjacent track.
You're still electrifying?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #1200
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You're still electrifying?
They have barely started, Apart from some main lines and interurban lines, almost every other line is run by DMU's.
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