daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 29th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #1261
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Glad to see my fantasies are not so unreal I was actually thinking about the evolution of the Zoetermeerlijn, from rail to metro.
Yep, the future connection at Schiedam Centrum is clear on the map, I was in doubt if the line was headed somewhere else with an overpass (e.g. in Schiedam Noord).
In OSM the project is clear.

I didn't figure out the "international fashion" of the old Hoekse lijn... My idea was that ships made it to Rotterdam center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
2) The double tracking is only envisages for Rijswijk - Delft-Zuid. For the foreseeable future, Delft-Zuid - Schiedam will remain 2 tracks.
That is a bit weird: they put a heavy effort in building 4 tracks in dense urban environments, then only 7 km of 2-tracks is left, in the middle of nothing, where building would be cheaper.
Probably the explanation is that, having no stops at all between Delft-Zuid and Schiedam Centrum, all trains keep the same speed and no additional capacity is needed.

This seems confirmed in http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_Kethel
Which is also why Kethel/Spaland will not have a station, at the moment.
Still, looked out of context, leaving just 7 km out of 85 seems weird...


Speaking about unlikely new stations, I read of Zoetermeer people asking for a HSL-stop, probably linked to the new BleiZo station. Nice on paper, but I don't see which services may use it: too tiny for HS services to stop there, too expensive to have a dedicated frequent service (ERTMS, no other stops between Schipol and Rotterdam).
It would only serve as a link from Zoetermeer to Rotterdam and Schipol (and maybe Gouda to Schipol)...

The only effective point is that Zoetermeer is close to Rotterdam but has good connections just with Den Haag. Probably an extension of RandstadRail 4 from BleiZo to Pijnacker-Rotterdam will be enough, if needed.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 29th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #1262
da_scotty
Registered User
 
da_scotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oss/Delft
Posts: 3,365
Likes (Received): 792


This was placed by accident a few years ago but give's a good few of the future situation.
__________________
Student at Delft University of Technology specializing in Transport & Infrastructure and Airport Design.

Wilhem275, dimlys1994 liked this post
da_scotty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2014, 08:35 AM   #1263
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,355
Likes (Received): 26177

From Global Rail News:

Quote:
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/0...redevelopment/

Topping out milestone reached on €625m Arnheim station redevelopment
29 JAN, 2014









Contractors delivering the renewed Arnhem passenger rail terminal in the Netherlands have held a topping out ceremony to mark another significant milestone in the project.

Described as one of the largest development projects in the city for 70 years, the new station will provide the city with a modern railway station capable of accommodating the 110,000 passengers expected to use the terminal each day by 2020.

ProRail, the Municipality of Arnhem and NS (Dutch Railways) are redeveloping the station and its surrounding area from designs drawn up by architect UNStudio and consultancy Arup.

The project, which will cost in the region of €625 million, is being funded by the Municipality of Arnhem, NS, the Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment, province of Gelderland and the Arnhem Nijmegen City Region.

Construction work is expected to be complete by the end of 2015.
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2014, 05:21 PM   #1264
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21251

Good. That claustrophobic bus station at Arnhem CS is very third-worldish and uncomfortable. It looks dirty and unhealthy.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2014, 11:06 PM   #1265
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Yep, the first time I was in Arnhem I found that place horrible. Some parts of the new station were already completed and gave me a very good impression.


Some more questions (yes, in these days I'm on a Dutch-railway-random-spree...).

1) Once someone posted here an unofficial map of the IC network. Similar to the map of Wikipedia but much nicer and more clear, with a smoother style of the lines.
Googled that, but I can't find it around.

2) Is there also a map of the Sprinter network? Or maybe a map of the whole NS service, at least for main routes?
I'm trying to figure out how the infrastructure is actually used.

3) This is personal
My first trip to NL was in 1991, I was 5 years old, and it is probably the very first "big travel" I can remember. Some images are still stuck in my mind like it was yesterday, and this is why I feel a connection with the country.

My first memory of a Dutch train is a bit confused.
We were on an embankment, the sea on one side, a terminal rail station on the other. I think I have identified this as Enkhuizen station.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/12720851

Now, the train had the typical rounded nose of Dutch trains, but I can't decide between a Mat '64 and a Hondekop.

Which of the two was used, in 1991's Enkhuizen?

This site states that both were used, but only Mat '64 on a regular basis.


22/07/1991... could be it.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; January 30th, 2014 at 11:26 PM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2014, 09:47 PM   #1266
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,260
Likes (Received): 63103

I think you would be interested in this map.
http://www.treinreiziger.nl/userfile...rt_2014_A4.pdf

http://www.spoorkaart2014.nl/

You can find the map of the IC routes here, but it's from the 2013 timetable.
http://www.rover.nl/actueel/nieuwsar...kaart-gebracht


As for the train in Enkhuizen, it probably was a Mat '64 since that was commonly used around that time. As the picture shows the emplacement in the station was still the original situation, since then new tracks were added for trains to be parked. You couldn't have seen one of the Mat '54 Hondekop EMU's parked at the station waiting for the afternoon rush hour services to start.

The only other station that you could have been was Vlissingen, there
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction

Agnette liked this post
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2014, 11:34 PM   #1267
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

About the maps: oh yeah!

My parents confirmed we stopped in Enkhuizen, I don't think we went to Zeeland.
You put me a bit in doubt with Vlissingen (also there is no Street View there), but the memory is of a very minimal station (as Enkhuizen was back then) and the train coming from the left side, from a p.o.v. with the sea roughly behind my back.
I even remember the wooden fence seen in the picture, but weirdly with sand instead of grass (about this I must be wrong, the picture is set in the right time span).
Well, we all know how imprecise those childhood memories can be, sometimes closer to a dream, but I think we got it

So, my first Dutch train was a Mat '64. Know I should ride one before they're retired from service...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2014, 11:45 PM   #1268
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

If you want to see some more Dutch rolling stock which is soon to become extinct, be sure to check out the Enschede - Zwolle and Zwolle - Kampen lines. These lines run with DM'90, the last remaining DMU's with Dutch railways. These lines will soon fall under the supervision of the province of Overijssel that intends to electrify them and put them out for tender.

Other rolling stock which you might like is the DD-AR (the 2nd generation double deck car) which NedTrain is currently refurbishing to become NID (a.k.a. DDZ), meant for intercity services. However, in a few months some original, unrefurbished DD-AR will re-enter service to serve in some crowded local trains in the following composition: locomotive (class 1700), B coach (2nd class), AB coach (1st and 2nd class), Bs coach (2nd class and control car).

The unrefurbished DD-AR will then most likely remain in service until 2019/2020.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2014, 12:20 AM   #1269
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Actually I already used unrefurbished DD-AR. I happen to find mDDM the weirdest train I've ever seen

So far I travelled with these NS materials:
- SLT on Delft - Den Haag CS
- DD-AR on Haarlem Spaarnwoude - Amsterdam CS and Leiden - Den Haag HS
- (probably also the same DD, but with 17xx loco)
- VIRM on Amsterdam - Utrecht and Amsterdam CS - Leiden via Schiphol
- ICE3M on Utrecht - Köln (via Eindhoven - Venlo, back then)
- refurbished ICM on Den Haag CS - Utrecht

What I'm gonna miss is the viaduct in Delft. The image of those VIRMs taking off and flying over the city was funny.
(probably Delftenaren are not gonna miss it at all)
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; February 1st, 2014 at 12:26 AM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2014, 12:42 AM   #1270
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,466
Likes (Received): 6165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
About the maps: oh yeah!

My parents confirmed we stopped in Enkhuizen, I don't think we went to Zeeland.
You put me a bit in doubt with Vlissingen (also there is no Street View there), but the memory is of a very minimal station (as Enkhuizen was back then) and the train coming from the left side, from a p.o.v. with the sea roughly behind my back.
I even remember the wooden fence seen in the picture, but weirdly with sand instead of grass (about this I must be wrong, the picture is set in the right time span).
Well, we all know how imprecise those childhood memories can be, sometimes closer to a dream, but I think we got it

So, my first Dutch train was a Mat '64. Know I should ride one before they're retired from service...
If it helps: you can't really see the sea from Vlissingen station, you have to walk a bit. From one of the platforms, you can get a glimpse of the seaport but only if you really stretch your neck. If you exit the station through the front doors, you walk into a parking lot and behind that is a dyke. You have to climb that first before you actually see the water behind it.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2014, 12:55 AM   #1271
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Which brings me back into doubt since I remember we were on a dyke when I saw the train
I guess I earned a trip to Vlissingen and Enkhuizen, the most cosmopolitan and vibrant towns of all the Netherlands

Actually, today I began looking for info on Erasmus programs... it's still a draft, but I may end up studying in NL next year...
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2014, 04:44 AM   #1272
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Actually I already used unrefurbished DD-AR. I happen to find mDDM the weirdest train I've ever seen

So far I travelled with these NS materials:
- SLT on Delft - Den Haag CS
- DD-AR on Haarlem Spaarnwoude - Amsterdam CS and Leiden - Den Haag HS
- (probably also the same DD, but with 17xx loco)
- VIRM on Amsterdam - Utrecht and Amsterdam CS - Leiden via Schiphol
- ICE3M on Utrecht - Köln (via Eindhoven - Venlo, back then)
- refurbished ICM on Den Haag CS - Utrecht

What I'm gonna miss is the viaduct in Delft. The image of those VIRMs taking off and flying over the city was funny.
(probably Delftenaren are not gonna miss it at all)
So there's still plenty of trains for you to discover
- SGMm, the previous generator of sprinter trains. Can be seen a lot in the Randstad area
- DM'90, seen around Zwolle
- ICRm coaches, can be seen in some intercity services (Roosendaal - Zwolle, Den Haag - Venlo) with a class 1700 locomotive; as domestic 'high speed train' branded Intercity direct, hauled by a Traxx; in international non high speed services to Belgium, also Traxx hauled
- Perhaps Thalys high speed trains?

There are some other operators:
- Syntus between Hengelo and Oldenzaal, using Coradia LINT
- Veolia on Maastricht - Heerlen and Roermond - Venlo - Nijmegen, using Stadler built GTW trains
- Arriva on Dordrecht - Geldermalsen, Tiel - Arnhem, Arnhem - Winterswijk, Winterswijk - Zutphen, Zwolle - Emmen, and nearly all non-intercity services in Groningen and Friesland. All running with different versions of GTW
- Arriva on Almelo - Mariënberg with refurbished Coradia LINT
- Connexxion on Amersfoort - Ede-Wageningen using custom built FTD Protos EMUs (and 1 GTW)
- DB to Germany from Enschede and Heerlen, using TALENT
- SNCB to Belgium from Roosendaal and Maastricht using MS80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Actually, today I began looking for info on Erasmus programs... it's still a draft, but I may end up studying in NL next year...
Welcome
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2014, 05:34 PM   #1273
Slagathor
Gay love is love too
 
Slagathor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Hague
Posts: 8,466
Likes (Received): 6165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Which brings me back into doubt since I remember we were on a dyke when I saw the train
I guess I earned a trip to Vlissingen and Enkhuizen, the most cosmopolitan and vibrant towns of all the Netherlands
If you do end up studying here, a summer's day in Vlissingen and Middelburg can be very nice. I grew up in Middelburg, I'll be glad to give you some tips.

Don't go there in winter, though.

Quote:
Actually, today I began looking for info on Erasmus programs... it's still a draft, but I may end up studying in NL next year...
Then you're my opposite, I went to Italy for my Erasmus.

Choose wisely, you don't wanna end up studying in Tilburg (ugly, not much to do) or something.
Slagathor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #1274
ihabor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Likes (Received): 0

Rail Magazines published in Netherlands

Hello All,

I wonder if you know some Rail Magazines published in Netherlands which are of interest for the professionals in the field.

Thanks a lot for your help!

I. Habor
ihabor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2014, 06:55 PM   #1275
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

There are a few magazines I know of, there might be more.

1) Rail Magazine
2) SpoorPro
3) OVPro (like SpoorPro, but then for everything public transport related)
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #1276
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21251

Fare gate tests in Rotterdam Alexander

Starting next Monday, for several months the fare gates at Rotterdam Alexander will be closed on weekends all day and weekdays off-peak. Passengers will open the fare gates by checking out on their OV-Chipkaarts as they currently do already.

Staff will be on site at all times to open the gates for those that are legally travelling without an OV-Chipkaart. Tests have been conducted in Woerden since 20/01.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 07:51 PM   #1277
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Starting next Monday, for several months the fare gates at Rotterdam Alexander will be closed on weekends all day and weekdays off-peak. Passengers will open the fare gates by checking out on their OV-Chipkaarts as they currently do already.

Staff will be on site at all times to open the gates for those that are legally travelling without an OV-Chipkaart. Tests have been conducted in Woerden since 20/01.
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/ovchipkaart#211-05

Quote:
Op dit station start op maandag 17 februari 2014 een lange proef van een aantal maanden, waarbij tijdens de ochtend- en avondspits alle poorten alleen openen als u met uw OV-chipkaart in- en uitcheckt. Heeft u geen OV-chipkaart, dan helpt een van onze medewerkers u graag door de poorten.
Station Woerden was het eerste station waar we sinds 20 januari 2014 eveneens zijn gestart met deze proef. Meerdere stations volgen dit jaar. We houden u op de hoogte.
I understand that to mean that the gates will only be in operation in the peak hours.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #1278
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21251

Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/ovchipkaart#211-05



I understand that to mean that the gates will only be in operation in the peak hours.
Yes, I just mis-translated it too quickly

I don't know what happens, sometimes I get betrayed by writing the opposite words in English to what I really wanted to write from Dutch (spits)

If they are using the formal NS peak-time definitions, that means gates closed from 6.30-9.00 and 16.30-19.00
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2014, 05:00 PM   #1279
Wilhem275
The Transporter
 
Wilhem275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Genoa & Venice [I]
Posts: 2,733
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Welcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Then you're my opposite, I went to Italy for my Erasmus.

Choose wisely, you don't wanna end up studying in Tilburg (ugly, not much to do) or something.
Well, thank you, I'm still waiting for more details about the program, but I'm really looking forward into it.
My favourite city is Den Haag, so it wouldn't be bad ending up in Delft... but let's see what will be the choice.

So, here's my usual bunch of questions about Dutch railways

1) I'm trying to find out what a double white light signal means, as it can be seen at 28:52 in this video. Usually one for each track, often before particular places with bad visibility (tunnels, bridges, curves).
It can't be an info for drivers, because in that position it may be hidden behind other trains. And it comes in many different shapes and positions.
I guess it may be a warning of incoming trains made for workmen who must operate close to traffic; it's also similar to the one used for service grade-crossing in main stations.
Sometimes they're blinking, sometimes they're not, I can't get the logic behind them.


2) Singelgracht Aansluiting: I wonder why all the three main connections (Haarlem<->CS; Zaandam<->Utrecht; Schiphol<->Weesp/Watergraafsmeer) are designed with switches turned "on the wrong side":


(The original drawing comes from www.sporenplan.nl)
Green arrows represent the route followed by almost any train passing by Westerpark, red arrows are routes I've never seen in use (not even by the Enkhuizen - Amersfoort service, the only one not following those three main routes).
Modifying this setup to straight routes wouldn't lead to any major increase of speed, since everything calls at both Centraal and Sloterdijk, but still it's unusual to design a "permanently diverging routes" setup; and it's not good for comfort and maintenance.
Maybe the original planning of services was different? Or maybe that's just the kind of stuff which evolves randomly in time, with new bits added here and there...

In fact, I see it's a tradition of NS to design stations where straight switches are not a priority (Hilversum is a mess, IMHO).


3) In the OV SAAL documentation I can't find anything about evolutions of Weesp station (just a reminder about general optimization after 2020).
I think that plant is a serious bottleneck for Flevolijn, since ICs can't overtake Sprinters and sometimes Sprinters have to stop for a long time for the interchange.
Look at this situation (@27:40): Sprinter to Almere is waiting for the other one to come, and behind it there already is an IC waiting... and it will probably stay behind the Sprinter at least until Almere Centrum.
Actually, from Almere Centrum, there is no space for overtaking until Muiderpoort or A'dam Zuid (tomorrow, A'dam RAI), which means an IC could build up a lot of delay. The alternative is to occupy the Hilversum tracks, which is not good for both lines capacity.

Now, since adding two outer tracks at Weesp doesn't seem a heavy work (just widening the foot subway and closing a gap in the Stationsweg underpass), I would do that immediately; even before doubling the Ringspoorbahn.
What I have in mind is a sort of simplified Leiden Centraal.

Did I just miss this info, or there are really no plans to do that?

Thanks, as usual it's a fascinating network.
__________________
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; February 16th, 2014 at 05:49 PM.
Wilhem275 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2014, 06:57 PM   #1280
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21251

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Then you're my opposite, I went to Italy for my Erasmus.

Choose wisely, you don't wanna end up studying in Tilburg (ugly, not much to do) or something.
What is wrong with Tilburg :angry: ?

In any case, except for Groningen, Maastricht or Twente universities, pretty much any other is withing reach of the rest of country with easy transport links.

Here at our university, some exchange students are taking advantage of a NS subscription plan that allows them to travel for free on weekends for € 45/month. The uni. even recommends that for year-long exchange students.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium