daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 17th, 2014, 12:47 AM   #1441
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The only reason I can think of for your card being refused is that your card is from a country that does not deal in euros.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 17th, 2014, 01:10 AM   #1442
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

That shouldn't make a difference. All transactions - including ATM, cashier and unmanned payments are directly communicated through the same bank who will calculate the currency for you.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 03:37 AM   #1443
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,980
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The Netherlands are lacking a bit behind to the rest of the world when it comes to credit card payments.
It's not so much that they're lagging behind, it's that stores made the calculation and found that credit cards cost them money.

PIN/Maestro/debit card transactions are cheap, and when calculating the time saved at the checkout counter, and money saved for cash handling, they found out it's actually cheaper than cash money.
Credit cards transactions are expensive here, and just aren't worth their money and effort.

Despite the cost, I think it's absurd NS ticket machines don't accept credit cards.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 03:59 AM   #1444
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Not only that, but they refuse paper money as well, and since they closed a lot of manned counters, you might feel a little lost when you don't have a lot of coins on you.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 10:11 AM   #1445
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Now we have the OV-Chipkaart, I no longer have a problem being at an unstaffed station with not enough coins. I just top-up the card at a ticket office with banknotes at my convenience. However, I cannot buy a Dagkaart without having €50 in coins.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #1446
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

To clarify further, I tried to use the card at the station on Wednesday evening, and the machine said the PIN was wrong. I tried it again, and then at the small yellow OV-Chipkaart machine in Albert Heijn and again it said the PIN was wrong. I then tried to withdraw money but again it said the PIN was wrong. I phoned the bank, they said the card was blocked because I had got the PIN wrong too many times, so they reset the PIN.

So the next morning I withdrew some cash, so I knew that the PIN was working again. I then tried again at the NS-kaartautomaat and it said wrong PIN.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 02:52 PM   #1447
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Have you explained this to your bank in the UK?
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 05:33 PM   #1448
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Have you explained this to your bank in the UK?
I haven't spoke to them since I initially got my PIN reset. I'll give them a ring on Monday but I'm not sure if the problem is with them. I am visiting NL again in two weeks time so I might try other retailers to see if it works there. The thing is, the account is not particularly attractive other than it has a Maestro card. It charges 2.75% for foreign transactions, plus an extra £1.50 for cash withdrawals. I only opened the account for use in the Netherlands.

I have a Mastercard debit card that doesn't charge either of those fees in Europe, so I prefer to use that where possible, and I used that card in Kijkshop on Wednesday. So it is actually cheaper for me to withdraw Euros out of the ATM and top-up my OV-Chipkaart at the ticket office. The only advantages of the Maestro card are the ability to top-up anywhere, at any time, and to be able to buy a Dagkaart without having lots of coins.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 06:33 PM   #1449
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Is it possible to buy a prepaid PIN card in the Netherlands that I could use in NS-Kaartautomaten?
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 06:36 PM   #1450
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

It is very unusual for any terminal anywhere not to accept your pin number that has been allocated to you by your bank. I never had that with my UK, Austrian, French and Dutch bank cards anywhere...
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 06:38 PM   #1451
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Is it possible to buy a prepaid PIN card in the Netherlands that I could use in NS-Kaartautomaten?
I think the only company that issues prepay cards is Mastercard.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 09:08 PM   #1452
DingeZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 312
Likes (Received): 61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
All debit cards in the Netherlands comes under "pinpas" which basically has the meaning of a card with pin number.
Yea, three years ago. Since then it has been replaced by Maestro or V-Pay.
DingeZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #1453
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Why, because the Postbank has been shut down?
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 11:09 AM   #1454
Theijs
Registered User
 
Theijs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 418
Likes (Received): 133

Quote:
Originally Posted by DingeZ View Post
Yea, three years ago. Since then it has been replaced by Maestro or V-Pay.
Because of EU legislation. Note that V-pay is not the same as a Visa-electronic or Visa debit card. Why? I don't know. But it is the reason why it didn't accept your UK visa debit card, nor a Romanian visa debit card.
NS vending machines where you can pay with Credit Card: http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/producten...tautomaat.html
Den Haag=Den Haag Centraal
Theijs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #1455
EduardSA
Registered User
 
EduardSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,555
Likes (Received): 699

EU legislation? Not true. I lived in the Netherlands till recently, and the only country that I've seen with such a focus on Maestro and VPay at payment terminals is Netherlands and Belgium (where I currently live).

Why is that? Multilateral Interchange Fees (MIFs). These are the fees paid for card transactions. In Netherlands and Belgium, Meastro/VPay card transaction fees are ridiculously low, thus it helps the merchant a lot in reducing costs if customers pay mainly with Maestro. Therefore, merchants choose to limit accepted cards only to Maestro. This has nothing to do with EU legislation.

In fact, the European Commission is (succesfully) working at the moment to regulate MIFs, which will lower the fees across the board for all cards which should lead to more acceptance of other cards. Unfortunately, banks and card companies have abused the fees system as a profit-making system which is why they are so high for certain cards. There are two famous cases against MasterCard and Visa regarding competition law and how they set their fees. Check it out.

EU regulation has passed through Parliament and is now awaiting Council approval .

@radamfi: Your situtaion is peculiar. The only reason I can think of is that Maestro UK works on a different system to Maestro Europe (especially regarding its pricing model). Maestro UK is the succesor of Switch, whilst Maestro Europe is MasterCard Europe's own thing. And just to illustrate this, I cannot use my Dutch or Belgian Maestro card in the UK with ToL (Transport with London) since they only accept Maestro UK cards. Your bank should have informed you about this if you told them you plan on using it in Europe. The whole pin-resetting situation is strange though; shouldn't be happening.

How do I know all of this? I work in the payment systems industry
__________________

Suburbanist liked this post

Last edited by EduardSA; May 18th, 2014 at 12:19 PM.
EduardSA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 03:07 PM   #1456
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Last time I was in London the TfL machine indeed refused my Dutch Maestro card, but it told me that I was over my daily spending limit. I had no problem paying with my MasterCard, and an ATM did accept my Maestro.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 03:23 PM   #1457
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

That is all very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EduardSA View Post
@radamfi: Your situtaion is peculiar. The only reason I can think of is that Maestro UK works on a different system to Maestro Europe (especially regarding its pricing model). Maestro UK is the succesor of Switch, whilst Maestro Europe is MasterCard Europe's own thing. And just to illustrate this, I cannot use my Dutch or Belgian Maestro card in the UK with ToL (Transport with London) since they only accept Maestro UK cards. Your bank should have informed you about this if you told them you plan on using it in Europe. The whole pin-resetting situation is strange though; shouldn't be happening.

How do I know all of this? I work in the payment systems industry
My card is from the Post Office, who have only just started to offer bank accounts as a trial in some parts of England. It is advertised on having card use abroad:

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/current-accounts

and I did manage to withdraw cash using the card. It is run by Bank of Ireland (UK). Which countries should a Maestro (UK) card work in?
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 03:27 PM   #1458
radamfi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crawley
Posts: 551
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theijs View Post
NS vending machines where you can pay with Credit Card: http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/producten...tautomaat.html
Thanks for this list. I thought credit cards were only accepted in Amsterdam Centraal and Schiphol. Given that list is so long, why not accept credit cards everywhere? They charge a fee for it so they don't lose money. It makes no sense.

I notice it says "is het *nu* mogelijk om met creditcard te betalen". So is it only recently that they have started to accept credit cards at those ticket counters?

Last edited by radamfi; May 18th, 2014 at 03:47 PM.
radamfi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #1459
Theijs
Registered User
 
Theijs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 418
Likes (Received): 133

Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
So is it only recently that they have started to accept credit cards at those ticket counters?
indeed, since 2 weeks or so. Once customer service answered me: "because of fraud we don't expand this service to more stations." Myself I don't get why they haven't introduced CC payment from Den Haag HS. From here leaves the international train to Brussels.
Theijs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 19th, 2014, 12:50 AM   #1460
EduardSA
Registered User
 
EduardSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,555
Likes (Received): 699

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Last time I was in London the TfL machine indeed refused my Dutch Maestro card, but it told me that I was over my daily spending limit. I had no problem paying with my MasterCard, and an ATM did accept my Maestro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
That is all very interesting.

My card is from the Post Office, who have only just started to offer bank accounts as a trial in some parts of England. It is advertised on having card use abroad:

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/current-accounts

and I did manage to withdraw cash using the card. It is run by Bank of Ireland (UK). Which countries should a Maestro (UK) card work in?
With regards to ATMs, they work on a different pricing model and system from payments at POS terminals, thus it is unadvisable to expect when travelling that if they accept your card at an ATM, it will also be accepted at a POS terminal.

@radamfi: The bank could be saying the truth (although not the whole truth). Your maestro might work perfectly fine with POS terminals in Germany, Poland, etc (thus abroad), but not in the Netherlands. At the end of the day, it depends on the merchants and not on the banks which cards are accepted (since they pay the MIFs to the banks for card transactions). MIFs vary per member state and the type of card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
Thanks for this list. I thought credit cards were only accepted in Amsterdam Centraal and Schiphol. Given that list is so long, why not accept credit cards everywhere? They charge a fee for it so they don't lose money. It makes no sense.

I notice it says "is het *nu* mogelijk om met creditcard te betalen". So is it only recently that they have started to accept credit cards at those ticket counters?
Only because a consumer pays a surcharge for credit card transaction, doesn't mean that it covers the fee paid to the banks. MIFs are usually paid on a certain percentage of the total transaction (this varies per member state and what type of card). Merchants try to eliminate this by adding a fixed surcharge, but it's difficult to manage in accounting terms and is not a guaranteed cover of the costs. Thus merchants prefer to just not deal with credit cards (which have the highest MIFs) at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Theijs View Post
indeed, since 2 weeks or so. Once customer service answered me: "because of fraud we don't expand this service to more stations." Myself I don't get why they haven't introduced CC payment from Den Haag HS. From here leaves the international train to Brussels.
I can assure you that customer service informed you incorrectly. The problem is not the fraud, especially since all POS terminals come from EMV Co. and the cards have embedded chips. Thus with advent of chip-based payments, these reasons have become insignificant in choosing types of card payments. Rather, as I said before, it's the MIFs that merchants have to pay which have become the main reasons in deciding what payment method a consumer can use.

NS probably did a cost-analysis and decided that it would be better to limit payment methods at certain stations, whilst accepting more card types at others.

Last edited by EduardSA; May 19th, 2014 at 12:55 AM.
EduardSA no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium