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Old July 14th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #1581
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I didn't know that and was under the impression they were going to used manned gates for that. However I'm still not convinced this is not an afterthought. If they had thought of this earlier, they could have saved themselves a lot of effort by introducing 2D-bar codes on the paper tickets instead of the one time chip card.
Instead of all gates supporting this function, now you need to specifically look for the gate that reads bar codes. Thus I would also argue you'll need at least two of those scanners, because equipment is inevitably bound to malfunction at some point.
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Old July 14th, 2014, 11:40 PM   #1582
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If you have an international ticket you are free to interrupt your journey at any intermediate station. If the station is closed with gates, they should open once you present your ticket to the barcode reader. Once you arrive back at the station (on the same day) the gates will re-open when you present your ticket. If not, just ask a member of staff (either on-site or through the intercom poles) and they will open the gates for you.

SNCB, SNCF and DB will print barcodes on their tickets and other railways are likely to follow, as the barcode is standardized (UIC 918-3).


The one time chip card is a deliberate choice by NS: they don't want people to travel on paper tickets anymore, they want people to use the OV-chipkaart. In the initial plans, the one time chipcard would not exist.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #1583
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If you want to break your journey where there are manned gates, such as in the example above of Maastricht - Utrecht - Groningen, can't you just tell the staff at the gate that you are not checking out because you are continuing the journey later? I admit there is a problem if there are no manned gates, only automatic gates.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 06:54 PM   #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
If you want to break your journey where there are manned gates, such as in the example above of Maastricht - Utrecht - Groningen, can't you just tell the staff at the gate that you are not checking out because you are continuing the journey later? I admit there is a problem if there are no manned gates, only automatic gates.
I believe there is a time token in the system, valid, IIRC, for 6 hours on NS check-in machines - less on GVB, HET, RTM, Veolia Brabant etc.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamfi View Post
If you want to break your journey where there are manned gates, such as in the example above of Maastricht - Utrecht - Groningen, can't you just tell the staff at the gate that you are not checking out because you are continuing the journey later? I admit there is a problem if there are no manned gates, only automatic gates.
If you have a paper ticket you can simply leave the station (present your ticket to the barcode reader) and re-enter it later, you won't have to tell staff. Breaking your journey is permitted in the Netherlands.

However, if you travel with an OV-chipkaart you must check-out and check-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I believe there is a time token in the system, valid, IIRC, for 6 hours on NS check-in machines - less on GVB, HET, RTM, Veolia Brabant etc.
There's a bit more to it than it seems:
1) If you're a "Traject Vrij" holder, incomplete journeys will be corrected after 6 hours. You will be charged with a € 10 penalty, even if you only traveled within the permitted trajectory (e.g. you have a Traject Vrij for Eindhoven - Utrecht, you travelled Den Bosch - Geldermalsen). This will be withdrawn from your bank account at the end of the month.

2) For any of the other NS passes, incomplete journeys will be completed automatically at the end of the timetable day (4 AM). If you paid a deposit when checking in, the operator will hold the deposit. If you touch out before the end of the timetable day, the correct amount will be charged.

Note: the terms and conditions state that you must check out within 6 hours after checking in, but this is currently NOT enforced. This may change in the future though.

3) If you travel by other means of public transport, you can check out as long as the Ride ID on board the vehicle remains the same. The Ride ID changes when the vehicle has reached its final destination and starts a new journey.

If you happen to encounter the same vehicle shortly after leaving it, you probably won't be able to touch out as it has turned and is doing a new journey under a different Ride ID. If you do try to touch out you will touch in again, losing an additional € 4,- in deposit.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 05:07 PM   #1586
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NS released the tender for the ICNG.

SECTION II: OBJECT OF THE CONTRACT
II.1 DESCRIPTION

II.1.1 Title attributed to the contract by the contracting entity
Inter City Next Generation (ICNG)
II.1.2 Type of contract and location of works, place of delivery or of performance(Choose one category only - works, supplies or services - which corresponds most to the specific object of your contract or purchase(s))
Type: (b) Supplies
Category: Purchase
Main place of delivery: NEDERLAND
NUTS code: NL
II.1.3 The notice involves
A public contract
II.1.5 Short description of the contract or purchase(s)
NS Lease intends to conclude a Purchase Agreement for the delivery of new EMUs (“Train Sets”) for passenger services, including but not limited to, driving and maintenance training, documentation, and spare parts (“Purchase Agreement”).
A base order of Train Sets, at least intended for operation on the Dutch Railway Network and on HSL Zuid, including other items such as training and documentation and spare parts, and possible additional orders will be part of the Purchase Agreement.
Start of operation is foreseen in 2020. As such, time is of the essence.
The base order foresees, besides the other deliverables, the supply of Train Sets with a total capacity of approximately 30,000 seats depending on train configurations.
Possible additional orders, that may consist of multiple batches, versions (see below), and volumes, with a capacity of up to approximately 80,000 seats are foreseen until approximately 2030. This is mainly depending on passenger growth and developments regarding the concession.
The main characteristics of the base order Train Sets are as follows:
A. General characteristics
• The Train Sets must comply with the applicable standards including but not limited to European and Dutch legislation regulations, Dutch authorization regulations, UIC, NEN, DIN etc;
• The Train Sets characteristics shall establish a Smooth Introduction of the Train Sets in the different NS operations and processes;
• The product platform shall allow for Train Sets versions of approximately 80 meters, 110 meters, and 160 meters in length.
B. Comfort characteristics
• The Train Sets shall have a modern appearance, in line with the NS intercity format;
• Comfortable interior appearance with zones accommodating the requirements of different passenger categories in line with the NS intercity format;
• Interior lay- out, door positions, door width, and level entrance at platform height to allow comfortable access and egress;
• Comfortable passenger experience, with limited pressure and temperature variation and low interior noise and vibrations.
C. Performance characteristics
• Low life cycle costs, high level of reliability and availability;
• Sustainable by design and use;
• Fit for use in the Netherlands with regards to but not limited to environmental conditions, infrastructure conditions, maintenance, operational use and passenger use.
D. Operational characteristics
Train Sets for intercity- type services on both the 1500 V DC electrified HRN and the 25 kV AC electrified HSL- Zuid, based upon proven technologies;
Service speed of 200 km/h;
Equipped with ATB and ERTMS;
• Low exterior noise emission, more stringent than TSI for operation and stabling;
• Short access and egress times;
• Wheelchair users shall be able to enter and exit ICNG independently of staff support at designated entrances;
• Running performance, deceleration and acceleration, dwell times and other characteristics that will allow the achievement of the timetable on both HSL- Zuid corridor and HRN as well as support the NS/ ProRail program “Hoog Frequent Spoor” (see http://www.prorail.nl/sites/default/...poorboekje.pdf).
E. Optional
As an option, an additional 3000 V DC system for operation on the HRN (related to future changes in the HRN infrastructure) is considered.

Possible additional orders
NS Lease foresees a possible need for additional orders regarding various Train Set versions based on the same product platform, consisting of:
– additional Train Sets with base order characteristics as described above;
– Train Sets for operation on the HRN only;
Train Sets for cross border services into Belgium;
Train Sets for cross border services into Germany.

IV.3.4 Time limit for receipt of tenders or requests to participate
22/09/2014 13:00

Interesting points: National trainset are prepared for a upgrade to 3 kV on the national network (HRN).
An option for possible Trainsets for cross border services.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #1587
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Quote:
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If you have an international ticket you are free to interrupt your journey at any intermediate station. If the station is closed with gates, they should open once you present your ticket to the barcode reader. Once you arrive back at the station (on the same day) the gates will re-open when you present your ticket. If not, just ask a member of staff (either on-site or through the intercom poles) and they will open the gates for you.
I just wonder what NS is trying to achieve with this.
The way it is implemented they will not be able to reduce on board checks. So what they now have is a system that only adds inconvenience and costs...
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Old July 20th, 2014, 06:27 PM   #1588
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I just wonder what NS is trying to achieve with this.
The way it is implemented they will not be able to reduce on board checks. So what they now have is a system that only adds inconvenience and costs...
It provides much better travel data for analysis, and it is also much, much more high-tech than using late-19th century paper tickets.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #1589
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Only because you have a fetish for high-tech doesn't always mean it's convenient.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #1590
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The gates will be a barrier for occasional fare dodgers, i.e. those who simply don't buy a ticket because "they never get checked anyways". Hardcore fare-dodgers won't be stopped by gates because they'll find other ways of getting into the station (i.e. forcing a gate open, following someone when they touch in, etc.)
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Old July 20th, 2014, 08:06 PM   #1591
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The OV chipkaart does add flexibility to traveling though. You no longer have an fixed starting and finishing point. And can switch these around at any moment, or even cancel your journey. This is an major benefit of the system IMO.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #1592
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It also has the benefit of the millions of visitors entering the country scratching their heads over this damn thing, after they did the same with the strippenkaart. The elderly aren't very happy. They also intend to get a little forgetful. No, I am sorry, I am not happy with it. But I don't live in the Netherlands anymore anyway. I am happier to be sticking with things that work. Like the paper ticket for example.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 08:30 PM   #1593
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Last edited by Suburbanist; July 20th, 2014 at 08:36 PM.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 08:36 PM   #1594
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The OV-Chipkaart is extremely practical for those who use trains more than once a month: you can easily tie it with your bank account for automatic reload, and then you don't have, ever, to bother with anything else regarding ticket purchase, and it works on trains, ferries, buses, trams, subways...

So I think it is overall a great system.

The inconveniences to tourists were addressed with disposable single-use OV Chipkaarts. Actually, I think a much more relevant inconvenience for foreigners is the low acceptance of credit cards on ticket machines, regardless of whether they will give you a chip card or a paper card.

As with any new system, there are some hiccups and issues along the way of its implementation. But this should not ever be a reason for not bringing technology evolution to transport systems! Just because paper tickets worked doesn't mean they were the perfect solution forever.

A quick analogy: when first implemented, airline e-tickets had some issues that took a bit to be worked out. And many people probably cried foul that the old paper ticket system, where the ticket itslef had monetary value, was working for 4 decades, so why should it be changed. But changed it was, and nobody in their right minds would, today, argue for old-style airline paper tickets that carry the value of their purchase.

-----------------

As for fare dodging, AlexNL is right: the main purpose of gates is to greatly reduce fare dodging, addressing the majority of current dodgers that do it because it is just too inviting and the consequences for being caught, low.

Do GVB and RET have figures on how gating most of their subway system worked regarding revenue protection?
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:24 PM   #1595
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Quote:
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Do GVB and RET have figures on how gating most of their subway system worked regarding revenue protection?
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/b...r-zwartrijders

http://www.treinreiziger.nl/actueel/...r_ov-chipkaart
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Old July 21st, 2014, 12:01 AM   #1596
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Those figures do not reflect my experience with "zwartrijders". There are far more than they are trying to let on.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 06:10 AM   #1597
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Quote:
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The OV chipkaart does add flexibility to traveling though. You no longer have an fixed starting and finishing point. And can switch these around at any moment, or even cancel your journey. This is an major benefit of the system IMO.
You don't need Gates for that.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 01:37 PM   #1598
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You couldn't with the paper tickets. So what system would also allow it?
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Old July 21st, 2014, 01:40 PM   #1599
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He was talking about the smart card system in general. You could also just put cardreaders on poles everywhere, but the gates are just an added (dis)advantage.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 02:45 PM   #1600
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Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. Oddly, I quite like the gates. I'm only used to seeing them in major cities. So to me, they add a sence of grandeur and importance to a station. Also, gates help to remember you to check in and check out, and you'll know whether or not you're checked in or out.
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