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Old August 7th, 2014, 05:31 AM   #1741
Wilhem275
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They may build some structures at each portal to reduce immediate pressure change, but in the end the only effective solution is using trains with controlled internal pressure (€€€).
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Old August 7th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #1742
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in the end the only effective solution is using trains with controlled internal pressure (€€€).
If I remember well the french did that on TGVs, starting with TGV atlantique
sets, because of the tunnels south of Paris on the LGV to Le Mans/Tours.
Did this make those TGV sets that much more expensive compared to the
previous ones ?
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Old August 7th, 2014, 07:51 AM   #1743
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What if they built a "border station" on an open field just after exit from Lille on LGV-Nord? It would be a structure meant only for border control on UK-bound trains, optimized for that with a different than usual layout. For instance, passengers could exit the train and be processed on an airport-like counter, going sideways and accessing the same trains after going around, on the same level, past the passport control lines. With proper staffing, this could be done in 20 minutes. And such station could make it much easier for other services to/from London.
Why not just get rid of the security theatre, and do the passport checks on the train?
But that of course would be to obviously logical and efficient...
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Old August 7th, 2014, 08:35 AM   #1744
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If I remember well the french did that on TGVs, starting with TGV atlantique
sets, because of the tunnels south of Paris on the LGV to Le Mans/Tours.
In Germany all trains on the NBSs must have specially sealed windows and doors to prevent the pressure shock of trains passing each other at high speed. All trains includes locomotives and carriages, thus most current classes have sealed windows and doors as well.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 11:21 AM   #1745
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Why not just get rid of the security theatre, and do the passport checks on the train?
But that of course would be to obviously logical and efficient...
The Brits use computers to scan your passport.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 11:37 AM   #1746
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Did this make those TGV sets that much more expensive compared to the previous ones ?
Not incredibly more expensive per se, it would just be difficult to adapt existing trains. You need to seal everything and fit an A/C system that can control pressure waves.

It could have been done during the general redesign of trainsets, but unluckily most NS rolling stock just underwent these processes and I believe it's late to introduce this feature.

Probably the easiest solution is just to limit the speed (it's only -40 km/h) and wait for the new IC material, having them designed to go in there @200 without pressure problems.

In Italy happened the same when the first Pendolino (ETR 450) was introduced, the first FS train capable of going over 200 km/h. On the only line which permitted to run at 250 km/h, similiar problems were faced whereas standard IC wagons @200 didn't pose the issue.
The next projects included the pressure feature (ETR 460, ETR 500).
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

Last edited by Wilhem275; August 7th, 2014 at 11:42 AM.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #1747
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The Brits use computers to scan your passport.
And these computers do come in a portable version, as I've seen on other railway border crossings...
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Old August 7th, 2014, 02:11 PM   #1748
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Please, tell me NS will be NOT using the push-pull trainsets with the new 186s:
Yes they will use ICRm rolling stock.

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I heard - don't remember where - that NS plans to take the old Benelux
BDx cars out of storage and fit them with driving posts that can be used with
TRAXX locos. If this is done, no engine change at Breda will be necessary.
This is partly true. At the moment 2 BDs driving cabs are being adapted to be used for testing purposes with the new BR186.
If this is successful the other BDs driver cabs will be adapted.
Although the BDs and Bs (used for the Benelux) are looking similar, the BDs driving cabs arent allowed to be used in Belgium (this could always change though). The new Br186 and adapted BDs will only be used for the national services.

To make everything a bit more clear.
This is the plan for 2016.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #1749
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This makes it look like Breda is the capital city of the country and we built the high speed line solely for their benefit.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:16 PM   #1750
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They could create a "circular" service like this: Zwolle-Amsterdam-Schiphol-(HSL)-Rotterdam-(HSL)-Breda-'s-HErtogenbosch-Nijmegen-Arnhem-Deventer-Zwolle [and another one on a clockwise direction]

an then ditch the IC Zwolle-Roosendaal, substituting for a Breda-Roosendaal shuttle.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:31 PM   #1751
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They could create a "circular" service like this: Zwolle-Amsterdam-Schiphol-(HSL)-Rotterdam-(HSL)-Breda-'s-HErtogenbosch-Nijmegen-Arnhem-Deventer-Zwolle [and another one on a clockwise direction]

an then ditch the IC Zwolle-Roosendaal, substituting for a Breda-Roosendaal shuttle.
Pointless. There is already a service from Amsterdam to Maastricht, Amsterdam to The Hague and Rotterdam, and a service from Rotterdam to Leeuwarden en Groningen via Utrecht and Zwolle. Everything is catered for.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #1752
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Not to mention that proposal cuts off a serious load of students from Zeeland who study in Brabant and Arnhem-Nijmegen. Roosendaal and Zeeland have been cut enough in light of the Benelux/Fyra fiasco.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #1753
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Not to mention that proposal cuts off a serious load of students from Zeeland who study in Brabant and Arnhem-Nijmegen. Roosendaal and Zeeland have been cut enough in light of the Benelux/Fyra fiasco.
Is making a transfer in Breda that bad?

It doesn't cost an Eurocent more than travelling directly. They could even introduce stoptrein Vlissingen-Breda.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:05 PM   #1754
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Why not just get rid of the security theatre, and do the passport checks on the train?
But that of course would be to obviously logical and efficient...
They used to do that when the tunnel opened, but it meant having border staff travelling long distances as there is a long distance between stops. So doing that means you need a lot of staff and that is expensive.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #1755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
They could create a "circular" service like this: Zwolle-Amsterdam-Schiphol-(HSL)-Rotterdam-(HSL)-Breda-'s-HErtogenbosch-Nijmegen-Arnhem-Deventer-Zwolle [and another one on a clockwise direction]

an then ditch the IC Zwolle-Roosendaal, substituting for a Breda-Roosendaal shuttle.
Circular railway routes are never a good idea as it makes it difficult to recover from delays. London Underground's Circle Line now has terminating points to improve punctuality.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:35 PM   #1756
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Is making a transfer in Breda that bad?

It doesn't cost an Eurocent more than travelling directly. They could even introduce stoptrein Vlissingen-Breda.
There's not going to be any such stoptrein because Zeeland is very well served by the IC Vlissingen - Amsterdam and there is no point in an extra train.

So the current situation:

1) Zeeland
2) transfer in Roosendaal
3) Arrive in Breda/Tilburg/Den Bosch/Nijmegen/Arnhem

Your proposal:

1) Zeeland
2) Transfer in Roosendaal
3) Transfer in Breda
4) Arrive in Tilburg/Den Bosch/Nijmegen/Arnhem

All for the gimmick of a circle line which, as a construct, is notoriously prone to delays?

Where's the sense?
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #1757
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Another alternative would be to extend the Sprinter Utrecht-Breda to Roosendaal, or maybe to Bergen op Zoom.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:55 PM   #1758
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Another alternative would be to extend the Sprinter Utrecht-Breda to Roosendaal, or maybe to Bergen op Zoom.
Why not just leave things as they are? Transfer at any station doesn't seem to be a problem to you, and the link to Bergen and Vlissingen is good enough as it is. The only thing I like to see is a better and faster connection to Friesland via Afsluitdijk.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:55 PM   #1759
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Another alternative would be to extend the Sprinter Utrecht-Breda to Roosendaal, or maybe to Bergen op Zoom.
Still an extra transfer and you haven't really explained why we would need a circle line...
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Old August 7th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #1760
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They used to do that when the tunnel opened, but it meant having border staff travelling long distances as there is a long distance between stops. So doing that means you need a lot of staff and that is expensive.
They could have every train stop in Lille (or maybe Calais) and Ashford for that. It would add about 10 minutes, but would allow to do away with the 30 minute check in, leading to a net gain of 20 minutes. And more travel options...
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