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Old August 12th, 2014, 05:01 PM   #1781
Surel
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Originally Posted by MrAronymous View Post
It always has to be tendered following EU directives if an aquisition/service/delivery costs more than a certain amount.
Do you have any link with specifics?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 05:28 PM   #1782
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Is that a joke? That information is readily and widely available throughout the EU in all its official languages.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 06:21 PM   #1783
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Will NS ever change it's livery? Many public transport companies change theirs every 10-20 years or so, and the NS livery seems very out of date. This is the visualization I came up with - all of the blue and much of the yellow has been replaced with sleek gray and black.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 07:59 PM   #1784
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Got one question on the NS acquisition of the rolling stock. What is the tendering procedure? Does NS have to announce open tenders, or is it allowed to buy rolling stock without tendering and directly award a contract?

Any links, also in Dutch are welcome.

Second question. Are there any foreseeable plans for open tendering on the long distance track? I.e. not only the regional relations. And this then allowing a combined traffic. E.g. NS operating the same route as the private operator? Are those long distance tracks subsidized? How?
Question 1: Yes, NS is obliged to issue public tenders for new rolling stock. They got an exemption for the new locomotives, but this was due to so called 'urgency'.

Question 2: There are no plans to open the network to competition from the Dutch state. The European Commission has put forward such proposals, but it will be a long time before those come into law.

Question 3: There is no subsidizing for the basic services as offered by NS. The profits from the long distance routes and real estate are used to fund loss-making services. However, there is some subsidizing involved for additional services such as the night trains in Brabant (during week ends) and local wishes (such as extra trains between regionally important cities).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
Will NS ever change it's livery? Many public transport companies change theirs every 10-20 years or so, and the NS livery seems very out of date. This is the visualization I came up with - all of the blue and much of the yellow has been replaced with sleek gray and black.
And yet you leave an enormous amount of yellow on the front side for no appearant reason...

But honestly, I don't think NS needs to change its branding. The NS brand has a very strong presence in Dutch society, any Dutch man you talk to will say "NS" when you mention the colours yellow and blue.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 08:30 PM   #1785
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And yet you leave an enormous amount of yellow on the front side for no appearant reason...
That is so that the approaching train can be seen from afar - it's like a high visibility jacket.
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But honestly, I don't think NS needs to change its branding. The NS brand has a very strong presence in Dutch society, any Dutch man you talk to will say "NS" when you mention the colours yellow and blue.
Oh.. I thought it might be like that - that's the reason why I stuck only with colors and logos that NS currently use - just got rid of the blue and changed the livery. Maybe it's just me - from where I am, we don't like such bright, contrasting colors and tend to paint everything gray...
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Old August 12th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #1786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
That is so that the approaching train can be seen from afar - it's like a high visibility jacket.
Trains used to have that, but that requirement was abolished a couple of years ago. The added value of a white or yellow area on the nose is deemed too little to be of any effect, so it is no longer necessary.
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Oh.. I thought it might be like that - that's the reason why I stuck only with colors and logos that NS currently use - just got rid of the blue and changed the livery. Maybe it's just me - from where I am, we don't like such bright, contrasting colors and tend to paint everything gray...
Matter of personal preferences, I guess. I quite like NS's branding, especially when the trains have just been through the washing machine. The yellow really stands out then!
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Old August 12th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #1787
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Although I don't think NS should change its livery I like this proposal a lot, I always enjoy the dark grey/yellow contrast.

Front of trains usually must be bright for safety requirements, I knew locos allowed to NL network must have a white or yellow empty field (in Italy it's red).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Trains used to have that, but that requirement was abolished a couple of years ago. The added value of a white or yellow area on the nose is deemed too little to be of any effect, so it is no longer necessary.
So know there's complete freedom of colours?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #1788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
Will NS ever change it's livery? Many public transport companies change theirs every 10-20 years or so, and the NS livery seems very out of date. This is the visualization I came up with - all of the blue and much of the yellow has been replaced with sleek gray and black.
Blasphemy.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #1789
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Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Is that a joke? That information is readily and widely available throughout the EU in all its official languages.
Why? The directive is not specific and allows various methods. I am simply interested in the specific procedure that the NS folows or should follow. Someone certainly put it on paper, rigt?

I dont get understand your bewilderment, it would be quite nice if a link to EU Directive would be an answer to all legal questions and procedures in all the member states, it is not so though...
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Old August 13th, 2014, 12:13 AM   #1790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Question 1: Yes, NS is obliged to issue public tenders for new rolling stock. They got an exemption for the new locomotives, but this was due to so called 'urgency'.

Question 2: There are no plans to open the network to competition from the Dutch state. The European Commission has put forward such proposals, but it will be a long time before those come into law.

Question 3: There is no subsidizing for the basic services as offered by NS. The profits from the long distance routes and real estate are used to fund loss-making services. However, there is some subsidizing involved for additional services such as the night trains in Brabant (during week ends) and local wishes (such as extra trains between regionally important cities).
Thank you. Would you have any links (in Dutch is ok) on the latest tenders and the procedure that is followed?

As about opening the network. I guess there is a difference between the long distance service and the regional service? How is the regional service tendered, is it tendered everywhere or not? And who decides about it? I guess that it is funded by the public money, isn't it? If it is not tendered isn't it in fact subsidized then? I know lots of questions. Is there some overview or document where would most of those questions be answered and made clear? Thanks.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #1791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post

EDIT:

So know there's complete freedom of colours?
Yes, there is.

A couple of years ago (2011 or 2012), DB Schenker was redoing the livery on the 1800 locos they acquired from NS. Those locomotives were NS yellow but as DB's main color is red, the locomotives had to become red as well. When the first loco was outshopped, it had a large white area on its nose with an inverted DB logo on it - the contrast area.

I thought it looked weird, so I sent an e-mail to the inspectorate asking about the rules and logic behind the requirement to have at least 1 m² in a highly visible colour. Their reply was that the contrast area was not needed anymore since 2010, something which I forwarded to some contacts of mine.

One of them relayed it back to DB Schenker, who quickly altered their design. The 2nd locomotive that was outshopped did not carry the contrast area, instead it was adorned with the same nose pattern as the other DB locos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Thank you. Would you have any links (in Dutch is ok) on the latest tenders and the procedure that is followed?
Most (if not all) public tenders in the Netherlands are placed on www.tenderned.nl. If you're looking for NS specific tenders about rolling stock, search for "NS Financial Services" or "NS Lease".
Quote:
As about opening the network. I guess there is a difference between the long distance service and the regional service?
Domestic long distance services along with lots of regional services are all operated by NS on a concessionary basic, which is awarded directly for a 10 year period. The government is currently working on finalizing the concession period for 1-1-2015 - 31-12-2024.

Quote:
How is the regional service tendered, is it tendered everywhere or not? And who decides about it?
In some parts of the Netherlands the regional services have been transferred to a lower government (usually a province), which puts those services out to tender. The decision about which lower government gets to put out services for tendering is decided by the nationwide government in The Hague.

Quote:
I guess that it is funded by the public money, isn't it? If it is not tendered isn't it in fact subsidized then? I know lots of questions. Is there some overview or document where would most of those questions be answered and made clear? Thanks.
Yes, there's lots of taxpayer money involved in operating these trains. When they were still operated by NS there was taxpayer money involved and there still is today.


The areas where you will find most tendered services are mostly rural, where the services were loss-making for Utrecht-based NS. Services ran with low frequencies, low ridership and old rolling stock.

After transferring control to the provinces, they started putting these services out for tender. The governments usually put out a combined package to tender: both bus and train services would be granted to an operator at the same time. The governments made a huge sack of money available for this, but in return they asked for higher frequencies, newer rolling stock and an overall better passenger rating.

And they succeeded in this: all private operators have increased frequencies, ridership has gone up, trains are more punctual and passenger satisfaction has increased. To top it all off, the amount of taxpayer money required to offer the services has been lowered.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:28 AM   #1792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
A couple of years ago (2011 or 2012), DB Schenker was redoing the livery on the 1800 locos they acquired from NS. Those locomotives were NS yellow but as DB's main color is red, the locomotives had to become red as well. When the first loco was outshopped, it had a large white area on its nose with an inverted DB logo on it - the contrast area.
So it was you who allerted them .
Something similar happened to the 419.
When the first the first mat 64 were decomissioned in 2004, the 419 was used to train drivers at specific routes. Some train enthousiast+Nedtrain decided to paint the train green (pre 70s livery). But because it wasn't a historic train but still used by NS to train drivers it got a strange white nose.

Link
Later in 2004 it was decomisioned again and was donated to a foundation to preserve the 419. At that moment it became a historic train and it lost it's strange white nose.

Link

Also today they started testing with th 186001 on a rainy day.
To bad they used rolling stock with the Fyra livery.

Link
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Old August 13th, 2014, 07:46 AM   #1793
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Eh eh eh eh eh eh eh



All for the same price... I love DB's site
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Old August 13th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #1794
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Why bother with the massive detour via Almere/Duivendrecht/Bijlmer? Sightseeing?

There is a half-hourly train from Amsterdam CS-Den Haag HS on weekdays, in the weekends you only have a cross-platform change at Leiden! Much easier!
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Old August 13th, 2014, 11:49 AM   #1795
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Basically sightseeing around Amsterdam's node, just to look at some traffic going by.

If it was for the shortest route, then the CNL stops in Utrecth too
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
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Old August 13th, 2014, 01:44 PM   #1796
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Interesting though that train 4041 is classified as a RE. Train series 4000 is the NS Sprinter on the Rotterdam - Uitgeest route and stops at pretty much all intermediate stations. I would thus have classified this train as a RB.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #1797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Most (if not all) public tenders in the Netherlands are placed on www.tenderned.nl. If you're looking for NS specific tenders about rolling stock, search for "NS Financial Services" or "NS Lease".
I have found this, its seems, major tender for the future EMUs on the NS network. https://www.tenderned.nl/tenderned-w...45870/cvp/join

As the award criteria applied are not yet present and I did not find any older rolling stock tenders I would like to ask you if you could direct me at some older tender which had been completed and there would be a award criteria as well as negotiation report available.

I guess NS prefers using negotiation in its rolling stock tendering (but also in other tendering). Why is that with such big contracts? I notice that Rijkswaterstaat also prefers negotiation to the open procedure.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #1798
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Interesting though that train 4041 is classified as a RE. Train series 4000 is the NS Sprinter on the Rotterdam - Uitgeest route and stops at pretty much all intermediate stations. I would thus have classified this train as a RB.
That surprised me too, but DB's Hafas is not very precise when it comes to classification systems used abroad. I just tried to look for a Syntus service and they show it, but with no category at all (just the number).

When they receive correct info, they can also fit the right name in the timetable, so the "Sprinter" category could actually be used. Or at least using the "R" (Regional) general label used for any stoptrain ("RB" means nothing to anyone not frequenting Germany).

"RE" is completely wrong in the Sprinter context. Even because the IC service itself is something closer to the German RE concept.
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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 09:37 PM   #1799
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Creditcards now accepted by most ticket-machines.

http://www.treinreiziger.nl/actueel/...tomaten-146425
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However, travelers must pay 50 cents extra if they want to pay with credit card. At 90% of the stations can be paid by credit card (VISA or Mastercard), the rest of the stations follow until end of September.
List of stations accepting creditcards:http://www.ns.nl/binaries/content/as...station-nl.pdf
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Old August 13th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #1800
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The 186001 arrived today at it's new home at watergraafsmeer workshop.
Tomorrow it will start testing between Amsterdam and Deventer.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...51616725_n.jpg

link
That "E" before the "186" looks Italian. If thex followed the Dutch numebring system, it would have had a 4-digit number. And using the German syste, it wouldn't have had the "E".

As far I know, when first German 189 locos entered in Italy they were "reclassified" as E 189. Then Swiss Re 484 (Bombardier AC/DC Traxx) were renamed E 484 on the front panel (remaining Re 484 on sides), and DC-only Traxx locos bought by Italian companies became known as E 483 (being similar to E/Re 484).
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