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Old August 26th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #1881
radamfi
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Given that bikes are so dominant for local transport it is remarkable how much effort and attention to detail goes into local public transport in the Netherlands for so few potential users. In Europe, only really Switzerland can claim to have better local public transport than the Netherlands and they have a much bigger captive market as cycling is much less popular.

The Netherlands has built so many elaborate busways. Of course, Haarlem to Schiphol is world famous but there are so many other ones that aren't even marketed as anything special. The full bus network in Almere is segregated. Of course it is a new town, but new towns elsewhere in the world don't enjoy such facilities. A lot of the bus network in Utrecht, Groningen and Eindhoven is segregated. I do a lot of day trips in the Netherlands where I travel for several hours by bus and each time I find some kind of clever bus priority or busway that I haven't seen before. Buses even get their own motorway junctions and are even allowed to drive on the hard shoulder to avoid congestion!

The full public transport network is GPS tracked. That may not seem like a big deal to Dutch people, but that is still rare in the UK outside London. Therefore most bus companies in Britain can't monitor their operations properly and rely on their drivers to report delays. At any bus stop in the Netherlands, I can get my phone out and know precisely when the bus will come.

Care is taken to ensure buses connect, especially in rural areas.

An example is between the non-rail served area south of Rotterdam (across the Oude Maas) and Rotterdam city centre. Local buses connect into a rural bus station, built only for changing buses. There are then frequent express buses under the river along the motorway (with bus lane) to the metro station just across the river. Then you get the metro into the city centre. In Britain, there would be several direct services from each village to the city centre, which is unnecessary duplication and means that each village wouldn't have as frequent service as it could do due to resources being wasted on the common part of the route.

The vehicle standards are also first class. The Dutch buy top quality (mostly German) makes with good specification. Double glazing has been standard for years and buses now increasingly have air conditioning, despite the mild Dutch climate. In the UK, we rarely have double glazing so buses steam up in winter and you can't see through the window, and our buses are mostly cheap, British made.

Last edited by radamfi; August 26th, 2014 at 06:59 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 06:50 PM   #1882
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Not anymore. I see large quantities of stock being imported from Germany. Particulary in London.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 06:57 PM   #1883
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Not anymore. I see large quantities of stock being imported from Germany. Particulary in London.
London did go for Mercedes Citaro articulated buses during the Ken Livingstone mayoralty (2000 to 2008) but the current mayor Boris Johnson made a big deal about how bad they were in the 2008 election and forced them to be withdrawn prematurely before the 2012 election. London now is buying 'Boris buses' ('New Bus for London') along with the typical Alexander Dennis and Wright buses that you get throughout the UK.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 08:17 PM   #1884
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...if they showed the network map
Try to find the map of the HTM Night service at their abri's or website...
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Old August 27th, 2014, 10:57 PM   #1885
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How good are "planning tools" for Dutch public transport? I mean if I want to go from point A to point B tomorrow at 9 am is there an official website which would tell me what I should do, how long it takes and how much it costs?

Let's take a random example - from Zevenbergen to Bennekom (1 h 10 min by car by Google).
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:12 PM   #1886
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http://9292.nl/en
and more specifically
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:14 PM   #1887
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
How good are "planning tools" for Dutch public transport? I mean if I want to go from point A to point B tomorrow at 9 am is there an official website which would tell me what I should do, how long it takes and how much it costs?

Let's take a random example - from Zevenbergen to Bennekom (1 h 10 min by car by Google).
www.9292.nl/en

2.5 hours, € 21.63
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:17 PM   #1888
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Seems to work quite well, albeit this particular journey is rarely needed and thus inefficient without a car.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #1889
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Yesterday I think I got screwed by OV-C while changing from HTM to RET (Line E, at Laan van NOI). I don't know why but instead of "Overstap OK" it showed another message and the €4,00 sign; I was in a hurry so I just gave a glance at it.

Today I went to the HTM office at HS station and they told me they can give me the list of the last 10 movements only, which doesn't include the one from yesterday, so, basically, goodbye to that money

Now I'll link the anonymous card to the website that tracks the movements, let's see if I can retrieve more info.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #1890
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Also via google maps

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Let's take a random example - from Zevenbergen to Bennekom (1 h 10 min by car by Google).
Click on the bus icon in google maps. google directions (but no price information)
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #1891
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9292 is a very neat pathfinder and itinerary app.

It just fails, in my opinion, by missing certain connections that are faster though the first leg is the same, on certain urban areas - not on trains though.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #1892
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Now I'll link the anonymous card to the website that tracks the movements, let's see if I can retrieve more info.
You should definitively register on the website, it is a great way to keep track of your OV-Chipkaart.

You can also create a profile on NS, it allows you to claim refund for delays online, with just couple clicks. It also has a better visualization of NS trips. Registering there won't interfere with your OV-Chipkaart Online registration.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:34 PM   #1893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Yesterday I think I got screwed by OV-C while changing from HTM to RET (Line E, at Laan van NOI). I don't know why but instead of "Overstap OK" it showed another message and the €4,00 sign; I was in a hurry so I just gave a glance at it.
Humm, I've made that change myself a few times. I'm guessing that you forgot to check out in the HTM vehicle.
Quote:
Today I went to the HTM office at HS station and they told me they can give me the list of the last 10 movements only, which doesn't include the one from yesterday, so, basically, goodbye to that money
Sorry to hear about that...

Quote:
Now I'll link the anonymous card to the website that tracks the movements, let's see if I can retrieve more info.
Probably not, the OV-chipkaart website only shows transactions that were committed after you requested the report.
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Old August 27th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #1894
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When I first started being interested in Dutch transport, around 1997, 9292 was primarily a phone service. I was taken aback by the high cost of phone calls to 9292. At the time, premium phone calls in the UK were associated with chat lines. Information lines were usually charged at normal or lower than normal phone rates, or even free. There was a computer program that would give you itineraries over a dial-up connection, also at premium rates.

Of course, 9292 is now a great website and app, free to use.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 12:32 AM   #1895
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Humm, I've made that change myself a few times. I'm guessing that you forgot to check out in the HTM vehicle.
Actually I remember clearly that I checked out (double beep) while we were on the curve merging from the Beatrixkwartier.

My only doubt is that, in a complete brainfart driven by the remember-to-check-out obsession, I might have checked out twice... but I don't think so (it wouldn't have been a double beep, in that case)*.

Also, on the RET reader there was a sign that I didn't quite understand (something like "Check out here to RET"), but that was on all readers so I guessed there was not much choice and it was supposed to work as usual.
Well, whatever.


*which brings me to another couple of questions.
Case 1: I'm on board, I check out. Then I understand it's the wrong stop. Can I re-check-in immediately?
Case 2: I get on, I check in. I immediately realise it's the wrong line and I have time to jump off. Can I just check out at the very same stop, without opening the travel? Something similar to the free 60' inside the station...

PS: I found a house, in the end I went with DUWO. If I'm lucky, Friday I'll have a little surprise for this thread
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Old August 28th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #1896
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Quote:
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My only doubt is that, in a complete brainfart driven by the remember-to-check-out obsession, I might have checked out twice... but I don't think so (it wouldn't have been a double beep, in that case)*.
That would lead to a double beep followed by a single beep, I think.
Quote:

Also, on the RET reader there was a sign that I didn't quite understand (something like "Check out here to RET"), but that was on all readers so I guessed there was not much choice and it was supposed to work as usual.
Well, whatever.
The RET validators on platforms that are shared with HTM have stickers on them, saying something like "Hier in- en uitchecken bij RET" (the operator of line E).

All pole mounted validators can do both check ins and check outs, they're not bound to a direction, as opposed to the ticket gates.


Quote:

*which brings me to another couple of questions.
Case 1: I'm on board, I check out. Then I understand it's the wrong stop. Can I re-check-in immediately?
Yes.
Quote:
Case 2: I get on, I check in. I immediately realise it's the wrong line and I have time to jump off. Can I just check out at the very same stop, without opening the travel? Something similar to the free 60' inside the station...
I believe so, as long as the vehicle hasn't moved yet.
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PS: I found a house, in the end I went with DUWO. If I'm lucky, Friday I'll have a little surprise for this thread
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Old August 28th, 2014, 02:33 AM   #1897
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Case 2: I get on, I check in. I immediately realise it's the wrong line and I have time to jump off. Can I just check out at the very same stop, without opening the travel? Something similar to the free 60' inside the station...
If you check in in a vehicle (bus or tram), you need to check out in that same vehicle.


For trains and metros, you check in at the gates or on the platform, so you need to check out at the gates or on the platform.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 02:33 AM   #1898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Case 2: I get on, I check in. I immediately realise it's the wrong line and I have time to jump off. Can I just check out at the very same stop, without opening the travel? Something similar to the free 60' inside the station...
Yes.
I believe so, as long as the vehicle hasn't moved yet.
As long as the OV-chipcard terminal didn't display the next station, the ride is free. That usually happens half-way inbetween two stops. I have seen quite some examples of kids checking in at the bus driver at the front and then checking out at the back when de bus started to move. Due to the engine noise, the bus driver won't hear the bleeps. This fare dodging is still very common, especially at long harmonica busses.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 02:42 AM   #1899
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As I suspected. Which also answers another doubt: when can I actually begin to check out? Answer: at least after the next stop is announced by the on board system.

That's handful, especially if you're carring bags, so you can stop handling the card way before you have to deal with the door.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 11:48 AM   #1900
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As I suspected. Which also answers another doubt: when can I actually begin to check out? Answer: at least after the next stop is announced by the on board system.

That's handful, especially if you're carring bags, so you can stop handling the card way before you have to deal with the door.
I check out roughly halfway. I don't wait for the announcement, I do it when it conveniences me. Once, I was checked by a security guy on the tram stop where I disembarked. He said "Your card says Centraal Station, that's the previous stop." Look, what can I tell you. I must have checked out a split second before the thing changed to the next stop.

He let it slide.
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