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Old August 28th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #1901
radamfi
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Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
The overstap rules don't apply for when transferring between bus/metro/tram and NS trains. It does apply when changing trains between different operators, and if I'm not mistaken it also applies when changing from a bus onto a non NS operated train.
According to this:

http://9292.nl/reisadvies/station-de...014-08-30T1100

if you change from the Arriva train at Groningen Noord to a bus, you still pay the 0.87 basistarief for the bus even though you got off the Arriva train less than 35 minutes ago

However, if you change from an Arriva train to a bus at Dordrecht, you don't pay the basistarief

http://9292.nl/reisadvies/station-go...014-08-30T1106
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Old August 28th, 2014, 12:23 PM   #1902
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Hmm, interesting. The difference I see is that in Groningen trains are run by Arriva and buses by Qbuzz while in Dordrecht both trains and buses are run by Arriva.

But that should not be the sole reason for this. If I change from RET operated metro line E onto an HTM operated tram it doesn't charge the opstaptarief again...

Could it be that the province of Groningen has not allowed to waive the 'opstaptarief' when changing from train to bus?
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Old August 28th, 2014, 12:34 PM   #1903
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I did think about it being to do with the bus being Qbuzz, so I checked a trip from Groningen to Leeuwarden, then onto an Arriva city bus and you still pay the basistarief.

I then tried Gorinchem to Ridderkerk, using the Arriva train to Dordrecht then the RET bus, and there was still no basistarief.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #1904
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Then it must have been something which has to do with the concessions in that area.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 06:41 PM   #1905
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When you change from one company to another, which company gets the money from the basistarief?
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Old August 28th, 2014, 07:22 PM   #1906
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Ehm; when you check out at one operator and transfer to another operator you always pay basistarief+(kmprice*km) (to the operator you just checked in at). Only when you transfer within the same company you don't pay the basistarief again. It's like this in the whole country. So if indeed you don't need to pay basistarief when transferring to HTM in The Hague, it's the exception rather than the rule.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 07:44 PM   #1907
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What I mean is:

Suppose you catch an Arriva bus for 1 km, then get off and change onto, say, a Connexxion bus for 1 km? For the Arriva trip you pay 0.87, plus about 0.14 for the actual trip. For the Connexxion trip you will only pay about 0.14. You travel 1 km on both companies so it would seem fair that Connexxion would get 50% of the 0.87 basistarief.

I suspect that Arriva will get the whole 0.87 and will not have to share, because it is assumed that you will travel back the same way and therefore Connexxion will get the 0.87 instead on the way back.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:28 PM   #1908
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Oh I thought you had to pay the basistarief everytime you transferred to another (bus) operator.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:57 PM   #1909
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I think I now understand why you pay the basistarief when changing to a bus in Leeuwarden but not in Dordrecht

http://wiki.ovinnederland.nl/wiki/OV...rt#Basistarief

The basistarief is charged on the train only when you are charged by 'kilometertarief' and not by 'tariefeenheden'

Quote:
Het basistarief, dat ook wel vaste voet of opstaptarief genoemd, is een bedrag waarmee de reissom wordt begonnen. Dit tarief geldt alleen op de verbindingen waar ook een kilometertarief geldt en dus niet waar tariefeenheden gelden (NS-tarief).
http://wiki.ovinnederland.nl/wiki/OV...tarieven_trein

shows that NS and Arriva in Groningen and Friesland, and also

Almelo - Mariënberg
Zwolle - Emmen
Zwolle - Coevorden
Ede/Wageningen-Barneveld-Amersfoort

charge on a tariefeenheden basis and so you pay a basistarief after getting onto a bus afterwards. All other trains are charged on a kilometertarief basis so you pay the basistarief when getting on the train, and so you don't need to pay it when you get on the bus afterwards.

Last edited by radamfi; August 28th, 2014 at 09:33 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #1910
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For the bus, metro, tram you have 35 minutes to transfer without having to pay the new base tariff. And it's not even just for direct transfers. If you use the tram to go the station in The Hague and then go by train to Rotterdam you won't have to pay the base tariff if you then check in on the tram in Rotterdam.

The whole accounting behind the base tariff is one of the reasons why this is not yet possible between the different rail operators or even better between the bus and the train. The smaller operators fear that the loss of revenue from loosing the base tariff from transferring passengers will not be compensated enough by the NS.

The Stads- en Streekvervoer already had to with the same thing in the past with the Strippenkaart. With the OV Chipcard it has actually become much easier to calculate how much every operator should get from all the combined trips. This has actually not been positive for some operators as have seen a significant decrease of their income compared to when they got their share from the income of the strippenkaart sales and the OV Studentenkaart compensation.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #1911
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Perhaps it would be better to pay the companies the total cost of running the service, with the government/provinces keeping the fares. That way the operators don't need to worry about negotiating the revenue between each other.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #1912
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The problem is that the national goverment is in charge of the main railroad network (Hoofdrailnet or HRN), and the provinces and stadsregio's are in charge of the busses, trams, metro's and local trains. Therefore there are more then 20 governments who have to split the revenues between them. That is more difficult then splitting it up between 13 companies.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 11:59 PM   #1913
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Around 20:30 I saw a Thalys (in service) passing through Den Haag, towards Leiden. A disruption on the HSL?

PS: this will be my bedroom's view for the next five months

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Old August 29th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #1914
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This will be my bedroom's view for the next five months
A room with a view
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Old August 29th, 2014, 01:57 AM   #1915
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I know where that is, I see that tower almost* every working day when I approach The Hague! Nice spot you got there, how much do you pay for that?


* Except for when I take metro line E to get from Rotterdam to The Hague
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Old August 29th, 2014, 03:35 PM   #1916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verfmeer View Post
The problem is that the national goverment is in charge of the main railroad network (Hoofdrailnet or HRN), and the provinces and stadsregio's are in charge of the busses, trams, metro's and local trains. Therefore there are more then 20 governments who have to split the revenues between them. That is more difficult then splitting it up between 13 companies.
In Switzerland there are three Levels of government involved in Public Transit. 50+ railways, a few hundred bus and tram companies. Yet tariff integration and revenue sharing seems to function just fine...
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Old August 29th, 2014, 09:35 PM   #1917
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The yellow/blue does look good.



Link
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Old August 29th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #1918
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Quote:
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In Switzerland there are three Levels of government involved in Public Transit. 50+ railways, a few hundred bus and tram companies. Yet tariff integration and revenue sharing seems to function just fine...
So what is their secret? The roll out of the London Oyster card to the mainline railway trains was considered to be such an achievement that it got an award, and there is a plaque to commemorate this at Transport for London's head office reception!

http://cts.cubic.com/AboutUs/NewsRel...ort-Forum.aspx
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Old August 29th, 2014, 10:21 PM   #1919
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Quote:
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The yellow/blue does look good.



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If I'm completely honest, they look a bit old fashioned to me compared to DB Regional, SNCF TER and the ÖBB Railjet...







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Old August 30th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #1920
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Compare the cost before you start posting pictures. We'd all love to have the Railjet, but it ain't happening on this budget.
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