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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:10 AM   #21
romanamerican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
I cannot disagree more The entire concept of a 'city' is clustering residences, offices and leisure in an area as small as possible. The most succeful and liveable cities in the world are not Houston, Los Angeles and Dallas but the most dense ones - Amsterdam, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.

Also, pollution has NOTHING to do with density. Spreading out cities with suburbs only increases traffic - this is a proven fact.
Increase in traffic does not mean increase in pollution for 1 simple factor: the possibility of the city to assimilate its waste. More trees = more assimilation of pollution. More parks = more trees = more assimilation.

As for succeful and liveable, those are two factors with to many variables, with a strong personal influence.

As the concept you have of city, I'm afraid you are too tied with the old conception of city, a problem that is very common in europe, where the population is stable (or in some cases, shrinking).Something that cannot be said for the rest of the world, where the population is expanding. With population expanding we have the development/expansion of cities. (just need to see what is happening in Cina or India).

As for the rest I said, nothing I can say: it is an objective fact, not an opinion. you can disagree how much you want, that wont change it
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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:31 AM   #22
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Houston's city limits have grown by 192,000 since 2000, and its metro by 840,000 since 2000. I think many are finding Houston a nice, livable place to be.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:34 AM   #23
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Houston's city limits have grown by 192,000 since 2000, and its metro by 840,000 since 2000. I think many are finding Houston a nice, livable place to be.
Oh, don't tell it around because the only cities that are livable are amterdam, hong kong (?), London,....

As for the project, can just be happy for the city of huston. continue like this
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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
I cannot disagree more The entire concept of a 'city' is clustering residences, offices and leisure in an area as small as possible. The most succeful and liveable cities in the world are not Houston, Los Angeles and Dallas but the most dense ones - Amsterdam, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.

Also, pollution has NOTHING to do with density. Spreading out cities with suburbs only increases traffic - this is a proven fact.
houston is probably one of the most successful cities in the country. that first picture you commented about is not the central business district but rather 8 KM out. also, "livable" is a relative term and there are far more former new yorker living happily in houston than the other way around.

finally as someone already mentioned, houston's planning reflects its history and had it been established a century earlier, it might have looked more like new york or boston. don't tell me post 1950's development in the NL doesn't reflect autocentric lifestyles.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:40 AM   #25
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I like the development. In fact I'm pretty excited about it. More infill, its outdoors and looks to be pedestrian friendly with great stores and restaurants.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 09:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
I cannot disagree more The entire concept of a 'city' is clustering residences, offices and leisure in an area as small as possible. The most succeful and liveable cities in the world are not Houston, Los Angeles and Dallas but the most dense ones - Amsterdam, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.

Also, pollution has NOTHING to do with density. Spreading out cities with suburbs only increases traffic - this is a proven fact.
Conversely, too much density can be rather hellish. Hong Kong's skyscraper walls serve as a case in point.

Oh, and Los Angeles has plenty of 'clustered' enclaves. I'm sure there are some in Houston and Dallas as well.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:01 AM   #27
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Why would anyone want to build highrises 8KM outside the city centre then, when there's so much open space left?
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:13 AM   #28
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Very nice, i like it close to Galleria
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 12:02 PM   #29
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Skybridge, calm down. If you don't like Houston or Dallas or LA, then stay in Rotterdam. Just because you live in one type of city doesn't mean every other type is bad. Maybe the land 8KM out of downtown was cheaper, so they opted to build the towers there. Or maybe it is the right neighborhood for what they're trying to achieve as far as atmosphere is concerned. From the aerial map, it looks like it's wedged between River Oaks and Tanglewood, two of Houston's most affluent areas. Texas is bigger than France. We have room to spread out. It may not always be for the betterment of our society, but it's what naturally happens. Now PLEASE, get back on topic or go to a different forum. I would never go to a Netherlands forum and ask why on earth people would want to float around on canals all day and pick tulips and ride around on windmill blades. Why complain so much?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 03:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
I cannot disagree more The entire concept of a 'city' is clustering residences, offices and leisure in an area as small as possible. The most succeful and liveable cities in the world are not Houston, Los Angeles and Dallas but the most dense ones - Amsterdam, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.

Also, pollution has NOTHING to do with density. Spreading out cities with suburbs only increases traffic - this is a proven fact.
Perhaps you should do some research and find out how successful Dallas, L.A., and Houston are. 'Clustering' has no relevance in determining the success of a city.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 06:16 PM   #31
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By 2010, both Houston and Dallas's metro areas will have grown by well over one million people. Closer to 1.5 million actually.

Los Angeles' CSA has already done that (from 2000-2006).
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:47 PM   #32
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First of all, Rotterdam too has a lot of the same problems with open space. And I don't need to calm down, this is a highrise forum not a city forum and I am interested in all projects around the world. So I'm not "coming down" to this section, I visit almost all threads and read them with great interest. As for Houston, maybe succesful wasn't the right term to use. I should've said 'more liveable'. The car dominated cities you are referring to carry many problems with them and make them less popular than cities like San Francisco or London.

I am in many ways involved with highrises, also in my studies, and I believe that in many cases highrises are used in the wrong way. Building highrises outside the city near huge open spaces for me is a wrong way of building highrises. That's all I was trying to say.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 12:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
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How can it not survive? There is nothing wrong with that picture. That's not even Downtown Houston. The Inner Loop of Houston has 600,000 (and growing fast) in about 95 square miles. Outside the loop are the suburbs.

Those strip centers are all being redeveloped. It just takes time. This new development is just one of them. METRO is building a light rail line down the street (half will be in a subway), so it is looking good.
METRO is not building a darn thing down the street. That light rail project is still in the planning stages.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 01:29 AM   #34
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METRO is not building a darn thing down the street. That light rail project is still in the planning stages.
Wow.

It's kind of obvious that METRO isn't building now, but they are about to start construction this year, and all 38 miles will be complete before 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
First of all, Rotterdam too has a lot of the same problems with open space. And I don't need to calm down, this is a highrise forum not a city forum and I am interested in all projects around the world. So I'm not "coming down" to this section, I visit almost all threads and read them with great interest. As for Houston, maybe succesful wasn't the right term to use. I should've said 'more liveable'. The car dominated cities you are referring to carry many problems with them and make them less popular than cities like San Francisco or London.

I am in many ways involved with highrises, also in my studies, and I believe that in many cases highrises are used in the wrong way. Building highrises outside the city near huge open spaces for me is a wrong way of building highrises. That's all I was trying to say.
How are they "less popular" than San Fran and London?
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 05:50 AM   #35
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Houston is for people who want to live in cities but want to have space.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 05:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
just in the last decade has london started to actually build skyscrapers (that are the most space-efficent buildings), "only" a century after United States.
i LOVE truthiness. most of the tall buildings in that photograph are over 10 years old.

Quote:
And there are still people that wonder about pollution.
actually houston is one of the most polluted cities in the united states. its so bad that NASA did a project of photographing the smog.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/eve...eature_03.html

if youre going to post at least get your facts right first!
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 06:50 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicform View Post
i LOVE truthiness. most of the tall buildings in that photograph are over 10 years old.



actually houston is one of the most polluted cities in the united states. its so bad that NASA did a project of photographing the smog.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/eve...eature_03.html

if youre going to post at least get your facts right first!
The fact that it is one of the most polluted city in the US is credible: there isn't that much of a competition. Look up the most polluted cities in the WORLD and you will find a surprise for Europe many europeans don't know about.

As for my piece on skyscrapers, it is a fact: of course I wasn't talking of Houston that (fortunately) has young skyline compared to chicago and new york. Study a bit of history about skyscrapers and you might find out marvels, none of which have happened in London (that has nonetheless a skyline that I adore... but if somebody attacks facts, that really makes me mad and therefore I answer more fiercely that is polite).
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 07:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyBridge View Post
I cannot disagree more The entire concept of a 'city' is clustering residences, offices and leisure in an area as small as possible. The most succeful and liveable cities in the world are not Houston, Los Angeles and Dallas but the most dense ones - Amsterdam, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.
Australian cities? None of them are very dense, sure there not as sprawled as LA or Huston but they are considered the most livable cities in the world.

Melbourne, Perth and Sydney are all top five in most surveys.
Mixed density cities are the only way to go.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 08:10 AM   #39
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How are they "less popular" than San Fran and London?
You really expect me to even explain this? Are you sure you can't come up with the answer yourself?
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 08:19 AM   #40
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The car dominated cities you are referring to carry many problems with them and make them less popular than cities like San Francisco or London.
Not in the United States.
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