daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Asian Skyscraper Forums > South East Asia > Singapore Skyscraper Forum > The Urban Fabric > Transport / Infrastructure



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 4th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #181
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

Vehicular tunnel ventilation buildings are more than just a shaft. There are huge fans pumping out noxious gases from the tunnels, shafts just provide an air inlet for the pressurization of spaces, eg escape staircase, fire-fighting lobby. So ventilation buildings are noisy, and dirty, and even poisonous at the same time. Also there are also emergency situations such as fires in tunnels where ventilation buildings will have to power up additional fans to draw out all the smoke. The smoke is extremely high in CO concentration as the space is enclosed, so it'll be a hazard to everyone around the building.
y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old February 4th, 2011, 09:03 AM   #182
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,914
Likes (Received): 181

The fans can be placed underground and near the top of the stacks. There is no need to put fans along the shafts near where apartments would be.

Effective safe separation from the apartments is simple. The most obvious solution is to have two concentric barriers with CO sensors in the intermediate space.

We pump natural gas, under low pressure, into our residential buildings. I'd rather have a leak of vented expressway gasses in my flat than a natural gas leak.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 09:22 AM   #183
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

What do you mean? I was saying that the expressway ventilations buildings are NOT just shafts. Shafts are okay, unfortunately we cannot make do with just shafts for underground expressways in today's context.
y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #184
jpatokal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 388
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarix View Post
Gosh!!! That means if these ventilation buildings are not built, these gases are to be discharged into atmosphere at street level? Scary... sometimes it is better not to know too much.
Precisely the same gases are discharged into the atmosphere at street level by every single car driving past your house, office or hawker centre...
__________________
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague | Map and share your flights at OpenFlights
jpatokal no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #185
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,914
Likes (Received): 181

I mean that the fans can be placed at the tops and bottoms of the shafts. They do not need to be placed all along.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #186
Antione
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 0

The right way is to go electric asap. It may not happen in 10 years time, but in 20 to 30 years, technology would be well advanced to make electric car more appealing to car owners than petrol car.
Till then, exhaust from cars will be just water instead of carbon monoxide and other toxic gases.
Antione no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #187
Polarix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpatokal View Post
Precisely the same gases are discharged into the atmosphere at street level by every single car driving past your house, office or hawker centre...
The authorities could be under-estimating the social cost in their "cost-benefit" studies. Being a reasonably advanced country, we should benchmark against the best standards in Japan, Europe and Australia. Hope Singapore will attach greater value to the health of its people, especially the HDB heardlanders whom are least informed and most obliging... (just look at the HDB flats right next to the new CTE widening project at Potong Pair/Toa Payoh).
Polarix no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2011, 05:43 PM   #188
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

Detailed map of NSE northern end, all entrances/exits are 100% speculative.
Orange is at-grade, yellow is elevated, blue is semi-tunnel/sunken, underground denoted in dotted outlines.




y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #189
mrtfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,134
Likes (Received): 40

Nice map as always. Thanks for sharing.
mrtfreak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #190
Seloloving
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,050

How on earth did you do THAT?

You are a genius with maps.
Seloloving no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #191
Aranho
Registered User
 
Aranho's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 845
Likes (Received): 15

Nice map I must say, but two opinion:
1) From W'lands Ave 9 to after Sembawang Ave towards the city, there is no on-ramp along the whole stretch. Not sure how many lanes the at-grade road underneath the viaduct will be though, but this at-grade road will carry Senoko/W'lands/Sembawang vehicle load. Personally, I'll add an on-ramp [to city] between Ave 9 and 7, just before Northoaks to let Senoko and part W'lands load onto the e'way, relieving the at-grade roads.
2) At SLE/NSE junction, I'll add a slip road from SLE W'lands bound to NSE City bound and a slip road from NSE W'lands bound to SLE T'pines bound, giving motorists another option, on top of the CTE and KPE options, to travel to the city and back.
Aranho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #192
AzMean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 321
Likes (Received): 5

i have to agree with Aranho. Between Woodlands ave 12 and Sembawang road.. there are too many interchanges. Looking at how they design the West Coast Highway flyover, they want to keep the interchanges at minimal.
AzMean no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2011, 02:50 AM   #193
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

Okay, I didn't expect that I have to justify myself here, so here goes.

1. Overall interchanges, actually what you see now is very quite spaced out, even by KPE standards. Woodlands Ave 9 to Sembawang Road is 3.2km, that's equivalent to the distance between South Buona Vista Road to Morse Road. Furthermore West Highway viaduct was built specifically to link the 3 ports - Jurong Port, Pasir Panjang Wharves and Keppel Harbour.

2. I've actually thought of building the on-ramp before Woodlands Ave 7/12, but there are 2 factors that affected my decision, firstly there are several housing developments from Woodlands Ave 9 all the way to Woodlands Ave 12, so they will definitely be adversely affected if there is any on ramps. Secondly, Woodlands Ave 10/12 are CAT 2 roads that carries most of the traffic from existing industrial estates in north Woodlands, and the future industrial park along Woodlands Ave 12 and Gambas Ave (next to Sembawang New Town. So it's more logical to allow all the vehicles to enter the NSE from Gambas Ave instead. Traffic from Senoko area and Woodlands Industrial Park E3 can use the Admiralty Road West interchange to enter NSE.

3. For most of Woodlands residents, don't forget SLE remains as the most convenient, shortest and least congested route between Woodlands and Lentor Ave. Residents can then transfer onto the NSE at Lentor.

4. I had to take some time to decide whether I should design the off-ramp near Sembawang Ave. But considering that there are 2 consecutive traffic lights at Woodlands Ave 7/12 I think it is good to provide a shortcut between Sembawang Ave and Admiralty Road West. This stretch of Gambas Ave is also one of the few long stretches of road where on/off-ramps can be built without any implications on surroundings, that is why I decided to concentrate them here.

5. To get from SLE westbound to NSE southbound, as well as NSE northbound to SLE eastbound, drivers can always use Yio Chu Kang Road. The first ramp will have to slip through the MRT tracks which is rising and have limited clearance at that area, while an additional ramp for the second sliproad will have to built even higher than existing ramps. Both ramps will also be too close to the Ang Mo Kio Ave 6, so drivers will have to filter into Ang Mo Kio Ave 6 to travel between NSE and SLE, that's really no difference from letting them go through Yio Chu Kang Road.
y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2011, 01:34 PM   #194
Mith252
Proud to be Malay-Chinese
 
Mith252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 10,131
Likes (Received): 345

Here is some news regarding NSE in Channel News Asia.

Quote:
LTA to consider building NSE in phases
By Hoe Yeen Nie | Posted: 14 February 2011 2019 hrs

SINGAPORE: The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has said it will consider building the North South Expressway in phases, where feasible.

This comes after MP for Ang Mo Kio GRC Lee Bee Wah suggested in Parliament that portions closest to residential areas be completed first, with the aim of minimising disruption to residents over what is estimated to be a seven-year project.

Another issue was whether parts of the expressway near homes could be built as full tunnels, to ease traffic and noise disruption after the expressway is completed.

Transport Minister Raymond Lim replied that while the expressway was designed as a full tunnel in highly urbanised areas, this was not always possible because large plots of land about 15,000 square metres, or about two football fields, are needed for the required ventilation buildings.

Besides having to compete with other land uses, Mr Lim said there are also limits to how far possible sites, like the undeveloped land around Lentor Avenue and Yio Chu Kang road, can be developed.

Mr Lim said: "The possible sites for these ventilations buildings such as the undeveloped land around Lentor Avenue and Yio Chu Kang Road are encumbered by the existing MRT viaduct or currently form part of MINDEF's training ground, or are close to Yio Chu Kang MRT station where the land has been set aside for high density residential use.

"To place a ventilation building on any of these sites would put at risk the operations of a live MRT line, impede training for our national defence, or constrain our ability to have more homes in close proximity to the Yio Chu Kang MRT station."

He added that a ventilation building would have to be built in the vicinity of Bishan Park, which would adversely affect PUB's Active, Beautiful and Clean upgrading programme at the heavily used park.

-CNA/ac
__________________
MAN CITY FAN SINCE 1999!!
KEEP CALM AND TRUST IN PELLEGRINI

Btw, if you can't see the images I posted, I have deleted them.
Mith252 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #195
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,914
Likes (Received): 181

Innovation has allowed Singapore to dramatically reduce the land needed for water treatment works. I believe innovation might be able to also reduce the land needed for ventilation.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2011, 01:15 PM   #196
Skyrobot
Registered User
 
Skyrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: シンガポール
Posts: 332
Likes (Received): 4

@y2koh: amazing map! did you get a call from the authorities on how you did this? Jokes aside, I'm in awe! You might get a real call after this...a job could be waiting for you!
__________________
MANCHESTER UNITED - "The Red Devils"

URAWA RED DIAMONDS - "We Are Reds" -
Skyrobot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2011, 01:59 PM   #197
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

Thanks. The reason why I say it's 100% speculative, is because I do not have any traffic data to back me up. A traffic engineer/planner always works with actual data and a good sense of how traffic routes can be efficient without sacrificing convenience. Compared to them, I'm just "playing around"
y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 10:24 AM   #198
christan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Likes (Received): 0

north-south expressway

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2koh View Post



hi all, i'm a newcomer. any updates on the NSE?
y2koh: where did you get the fantastic aerial map and alignment?
christan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2011, 05:13 AM   #199
christan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Likes (Received): 0

Hi any idea where the southern stretch will go? And anyone has an opinion on merging the NSE with Thomson Line? ie to build road and rail in one single double-tiered tunnel (as done in Germany and China)?
christan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2011, 05:28 AM   #200
y2koh
Moderator
 
y2koh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,603
Likes (Received): 105

Thomson Line and NSE will go their separate ways after Caldecott Station. So no chance for that. However, NSE will most likely run under Thomson Road until KK Hospital before it merges with DTL2 in the following manner http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=155 and then connect to ECP via Ophir Road thereafter.
y2koh no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu